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Thread: Science diminishing returns

  1. #31
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    Thanks everyone! Rattlehead, that last graph is really useful. I don't understand these equations enough to do anything meaningful with them in game but that graph is perfect and with that, relatively simple even to teach a new player how this complicated science system works!

  2. #32
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Glad to be of service!

  3. #33
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    Thanks RattleHead and Chris 121. This is quite valuable :)

  4. #34
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Just an update here, I have done the numbers with categories separated, and the results are the same from category to category. I know some were asking for my data before, but were disappointed that it was just all mashed together :P

    Anyway, here is a chart I made with my new set; Hopefully it contains graphically everything we covered, mostly the Prof% is new here...



    The yellow trendline represents Total Category Effect, as a % of what the base would be, while the white trendline shows Professor Effect as a % of a base-value Professor. The X axis values are the # SP over the 'soft cap' (1 prof = 2 SP).

    EDIT: I do have this data separated by category now if people want to get their hands on it. DM me!
    Last edited by RattleHead; 27-01-2018 at 03:11.

  5. #35
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    This is nice. Imma take this. Don't tell nobody and we wont have any trouble!


  6. #36
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    Based on the orange data your last chart, it looks like there is a random factor for each scientist?

  7. #37
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    This is due to the rounding that takes place on the Science page... in certain categories when you get far enough over the cap, there is of course some change for each SP, but it doesn't register on the science page due to rounding.

  8. #38
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    Thanks for the clarification.

  9. #39
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    This is great RattleHead, thanks again.

    I'm not 100% sure if this is a stupid question (every time I come back to look at this it takes a while to get back into it...), but presumably it would be easy from your data to draw a graph that shows the actual % science benefit for a given number of SPs. EG if I think "I want a 50% income bonus, how many SPs do I need", or "I could put my 400 scientists all into military, what % bonus would I get?".

    So that would be slightly complicated by the fact that a SP in each category provides a different actual bonus, so we would need either 6 graphs or presumably it is possible to draw a line that fits each one but where the user will need to then multiply in the effect modifier for that category (I haven't expressed this last part very clearly as I haven't worked out quite how to say what I mean yet..sorry).

  10. #40
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    You can use the yellow trendline to predict what science effects will be with X SP over the cap.

    The number of SP over the cap becomes X in the trendline equation. You then multiply that result by what the base effect of that much SP would be for the prediction.

    That said, this equation will start to curve back up if you go over ~130 SP in excess(bottoming out around 55% of base effect on this curve), the older version has this same issue... I had a War right up to EoA or I could have stacked deeper to test this, but you can see in post #22 of this thread what I think the actual curve might look like, where it starts to rapidly drop in effectiveness again after ~150 extra SP or so... But it could be that it just flattens right out at some point too, perhaps. But I certainly wouldn't expect it to actually tick back up.

  11. #41
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    Thanks!. Okay, so I get how to answer my second scenario (ie what % bonus do i get from 400 scientists in military), but what about the first one.

    Let's say I want 50% income bonus, so now I need to know how many SPs that is (or to make it easier, change it to 35% so that we don't go over the known part of your curve). What do I actually do to get that from your curve? I can see, of course, that I am trying to get ~16.6% above the soft cap (35/30), now what....?

  12. #42
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    The new line shows % of Soft Cap(y) per SP over the Cap (x)

    Sooo, about 22.5 SP over the cap, you end up with 120% of the effect at the cap. It appears this applies across all the categories, so 22.5 extra on a category with 60 as a cap gets you around 120% of that cap, and 22.5 extra on a category with 75 as cap gives you 120% of that cap.

    This new trendline will be subject to the same constraints as the others, of course.

  13. #43
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    This is brilliant! Thanks!

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