Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 47

Thread: Science diminishing returns

  1. #31
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    626
    Thanks everyone! Rattlehead, that last graph is really useful. I don't understand these equations enough to do anything meaningful with them in game but that graph is perfect and with that, relatively simple even to teach a new player how this complicated science system works!

  2. #32
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,182
    Glad to be of service!

  3. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    43
    Thanks RattleHead and Chris 121. This is quite valuable :)

  4. #34
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,182
    Just an update here, I have done the numbers with categories separated, and the results are the same from category to category. I know some were asking for my data before, but were disappointed that it was just all mashed together :P

    Anyway, here is a chart I made with my new set; Hopefully it contains graphically everything we covered, mostly the Prof% is new here...



    The yellow trendline represents Total Category Effect, as a % of what the base would be, while the white trendline shows Professor Effect as a % of a base-value Professor. The X axis values are the # SP over the 'soft cap' (1 prof = 2 SP).

    EDIT: I do have this data separated by category now if people want to get their hands on it. DM me!
    Last edited by RattleHead; 27-01-2018 at 03:11.

  5. #35
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    us
    Posts
    2,527
    This is nice. Imma take this. Don't tell nobody and we wont have any trouble!

    theHERETICS - Brute Force - Sonata - Dreams - The Pulsing Trollfags - The Expendables
    Visit my home for banned, neglected, and otherwise disenfranchised players on Discord!

  6. #36
    Strategy Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,223
    Based on the orange data your last chart, it looks like there is a random factor for each scientist?

  7. #37
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,182
    This is due to the rounding that takes place on the Science page... in certain categories when you get far enough over the cap, there is of course some change for each SP, but it doesn't register on the science page due to rounding.

  8. #38
    Strategy Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,223
    Thanks for the clarification.

  9. #39
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    626
    This is great RattleHead, thanks again.

    I'm not 100% sure if this is a stupid question (every time I come back to look at this it takes a while to get back into it...), but presumably it would be easy from your data to draw a graph that shows the actual % science benefit for a given number of SPs. EG if I think "I want a 50% income bonus, how many SPs do I need", or "I could put my 400 scientists all into military, what % bonus would I get?".

    So that would be slightly complicated by the fact that a SP in each category provides a different actual bonus, so we would need either 6 graphs or presumably it is possible to draw a line that fits each one but where the user will need to then multiply in the effect modifier for that category (I haven't expressed this last part very clearly as I haven't worked out quite how to say what I mean yet..sorry).

  10. #40
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,182
    You can use the yellow trendline to predict what science effects will be with X SP over the cap.

    The number of SP over the cap becomes X in the trendline equation. You then multiply that result by what the base effect of that much SP would be for the prediction.

    That said, this equation will start to curve back up if you go over ~130 SP in excess(bottoming out around 55% of base effect on this curve), the older version has this same issue... I had a War right up to EoA or I could have stacked deeper to test this, but you can see in post #22 of this thread what I think the actual curve might look like, where it starts to rapidly drop in effectiveness again after ~150 extra SP or so... But it could be that it just flattens right out at some point too, perhaps. But I certainly wouldn't expect it to actually tick back up.

  11. #41
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    626
    Thanks!. Okay, so I get how to answer my second scenario (ie what % bonus do i get from 400 scientists in military), but what about the first one.

    Let's say I want 50% income bonus, so now I need to know how many SPs that is (or to make it easier, change it to 35% so that we don't go over the known part of your curve). What do I actually do to get that from your curve? I can see, of course, that I am trying to get ~16.6% above the soft cap (35/30), now what....?

  12. #42
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,182


    The new line shows % of Soft Cap(y) per SP over the Cap (x)

    Sooo, about 22.5 SP over the cap, you end up with 120% of the effect at the cap. It appears this applies across all the categories, so 22.5 extra on a category with 60 as a cap gets you around 120% of that cap, and 22.5 extra on a category with 75 as cap gives you 120% of that cap.

    This new trendline will be subject to the same constraints as the others, of course.

  13. #43
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    626
    This is brilliant! Thanks!

  14. #44
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    626
    Data from Phantex on discord. Age 76.

    If someone good at graphs (Rattlehead?) fancies doing something useful with it that would be great :)

    I guess the graphs Rattlehead posted before are a bit wrong now because of the change to all caps being 35? And then next age will change to 30 so that might change things again.



    194 profs for 30.2% mil sci
    193 30.1%
    180 now down to 29.3%
    170 down to 28.6%
    160 down to 28.1%
    150 down to 27.4%
    140 down to 26.7%
    130 down to 26%
    120 down to 25.3%
    110 down to 24.5%
    100 down to 23.7%
    70 down to 20.6%
    60 down to 19.5%
    50 down to 18.2%
    40 down to 16.5%


    We also have possible numbers for 80 and 90 which may or may not have typos in them ;p
    90 down to 22.8%
    80 down to 21.6%

  15. #45
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,182
    i didnt really check this age with the adjustments, but i figured the same diminish principles would be in place... no plans to tackle it again at this point, as those numbers look like they fit on the line to me... no need to really go past 2x the cap to see how poor the gains are!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •