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Thread: Age 74 Final Changes Discussion

  1. #1
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    Age 74 Final Changes Discussion

    A place to discuss FINAL changes and make suggestions for future changes although unlikely to influence further changes for Age 74!

    Click here to see the Final changes!
    Last edited by DavidC; 03-11-2017 at 03:00.
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  2. #2
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    Suggestion 1) Post them!

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    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    I don't even have words. Go to the mirror and say the worst thing you can think of to yourself. :(

    Pack your bags Ben. We are leaving before this place burns to the ground.
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  4. #4
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    Resiliant - -25% Gains in and out & -20% Military Casualties on defense
    Godspeed - -10% attack speed & +10% Battle Gains & 10% Less Military Casualties

    Changed for no more penalties? Is -20% the same as 10% Less and just worded differently? (mechanically not numerically, duh)

    If this is not a typo, it's nice that you took all the negatives out of rituals. Rune and mana investment should be "cost" enough.

    And please... it's Resilient.

    And the changes are fantastic :)

  5. #5
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    The automatic merger of kingdoms is still dumb.

  6. #6
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    Godspeed really 10% less military casualties? Not more?

    And heretics no more Nightmare?
    Last edited by Aetherion; 02-11-2017 at 06:23.

  7. #7
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    I was worried when I saw the initial proposed changes, but am pretty happy with how the final changes have shaped up!

    It's looking a lot better and I've actually got several good race/personality combinations to choose between now (where before there was a clear winner). That's a good indicator that's its more balanced, and although it's still far from perfect, I feel it's heading in the right direction.

  8. #8
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    Really enjoying the final changes. Giving my kd lots to think about. Some good mix up in there as well.

  9. #9
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    The Elf changes need to be fixed to show the disadvantages. Or if there are none, show last ages as well. #ocdproblems. //EDIT: Nevermind, totally forgot Elf were removed this age.
    Like the mechanics changes though.

    The EoWCF change is great. Shortening was the worst thing, just made warring slower, not faster. So glad it is back and should make warring right out of CF more likely.

    Having seen KDmates having many attacks on them for their, the losses were definitely ridiculous, so the increased protection from more hits a good change as well. Same with the losses change.
    Last edited by Runefire; 02-11-2017 at 06:29.

  10. #10
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    I still have a question about these changes. Are non-faery paladins now able to cast paladin spells only on themselves or are they still capable of casting those spells (only paladin) on kd-mates? If it's only on themselves, it will really reduce their effectiveness and viability.

  11. #11
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    Will be fun to see how many Dwarfs will be in the game. Little love to that race.


    Dryad thought:
    Bonuses
    All land produces food
    -35% Military Train Time
    Mercenaries & Prisoners 7/0
    War Horses 4/0

    Penalties
    +20% Attack Travel Time
    -15% Enemy Military Casualties

    Spell book: Aggression, Quick Feet
    Elite: 12/2, 900gc, 10.5 NW

    Attack Time -15%
    Accurate Espionage
    Starting Soldiers +800
    Starting Specialist Credits +800
    Access to Clear Sight, Town Watch

    Will be kinda insane.
    CS = Helps a lot when WTs effect is reduced
    TW = Helps to boost defense
    -15% Attack Speed counters the +20% attack speed.
    QF helps you become even and no need to use Barracks for 2x/ day during war.

    Upon that you have as offense:
    12 offense in elit value
    4 offense per war horses
    7 offense per merc/ personers
    Aggression spell
    All land produces food = less need for farms = more TGs?
    TGs will boost about what 18% on 20% built TGs?

    So lets say an province have 1000 acres with 13 EPA and i would have the same number of WHs. keep 5% Dungeons giving u 20 prisoners per acres meaning 1000 prisoners * 7

    13 EPA = 13000 elits * 12 = 156 000 offense
    4 WH * 13000 = 52 000 offense
    1000 Prisoners = 7000 offense
    TGs bonus of 18% = 38700 offense

    Total of 253 7000 offense (253,7 OPA)
    (OME from Ritual, Generals and Honor that still only give OME and not DME isnt in the build.) Remember this is ONLY 13 EPA

    Now lets do an Bocan:

    17 EPA = 17000 elits *7 = 119000 Defense
    Forts say 25% defense bonus at 20% i think it is about = 29750 defense
    Add protection = 7437,5 defense
    Town Watch = "Peasants defend equal to 1/4 of a soldier but suffer high casualties." say u have 5 PPA on 1000 acres is 5000 pezz = 1250 defense"

    If my calculations are correct, might be wrong.
    Total defense of 157437,5 Defense = 157,4 DPA

    So:
    Bocan at 157 437,5 on 1000 acres
    Dryad at 253 7000 offense (253,7 OPA)

    Meaning 1x a TM for massacre and 2-3x an attacker with ez.
    Is this really good final changes, would like to hear what the owners say about this, DavidC?

  12. #12
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Can we have the numbers on WTs nerf? I really want to know this.

    Also since you are nerfing WTs and removing CS from races can we remove the tds bonus on the rogue. I'm fine with t/ms being harder to play and needing to invest a lot in specific building I'm not fine with rogue being able to 'spread the love' uncontrollably.

    EDIT: @Deathlyric - you are comparing bocan and dryad at the same size which is kinda wrong because: bocan has much lower NW value on the elite and in most KDs t/ms are among the largest provs. I'm not saying your calculations are wrong I'm just saying the way to make them is. Latter in the age if the bocan can get good honor title the def will sky rock from the extra pop.
    Last edited by Bo To; 02-11-2017 at 06:54.

  13. #13
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    Alchemy
    15 (13|1|1|0)
    +14.3% Income

    Tools
    22 (21|1|0|0)
    +14.4% Building Effectiveness

    Housing
    39 (37|2|0|0)
    +15.5% Population Limits

    Production
    40 (36|2|2|0)
    +140.5% Food & Rune Production

    Military
    8 (5|1|2|0)
    +2.7% Military Efficiency

    Crime
    32 (30|1|1|0)
    +104.0% Thievery Effectiveness

    Channeling
    34 (33|1|0|0)
    +234.7% Magic Effectiveness

    This is the science i managed to get this age as an DE TM.
    I gained over 40 scientists with Abductions during the last 2-3 weeks hitting out as an AM.
    Didnt even do 1x / day since i was bored with the age and we didn't aim for a new war.

    With this sad science an TM have what do an attacker have as Science?
    Here is an attacker from our KD and an UD that had reduced Science this age:

    Alchemy
    49
    +32,8% Income

    Tools
    53
    +22,5% Building Effectiveness

    Housing
    86
    +18,2% Population Limits

    Production
    54
    +135,6% Food & Rune Production

    Military
    66
    +16,6% Military Efficiency

    Crime
    46
    +105.6% Thievery Effectiveness

    Channeling
    50
    +134,3% Magic Effectiveness

    Now an TM can be 1x really easy and they have like 3x less science.
    I used Libs from time to time and revelation spell on more or less all the time.

    DavidC, why are we sticking to this Science system when clearly a TM will have a lot less science then an attacker?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Can we have the numbers on WTs nerf? I really want to know this.

    Also since you are nerfing WTs and removing CS from races can we remove the tds bonus on the rogue. I'm fine with t/ms being harder to play and needing to invest a lot in specific building I'm not fine with rogue being able to 'spread the love' uncontrollably.

    EDIT: @Deathlyric - you are comparing bocan and dryad at the same size which is kinda wrong because: bocan has much lower NW value on the elite and in most KDs t/ms are among the largest provs. I'm not saying your calculations are wrong I'm just saying the way to make them is. Latter in the age if the bocan can get good honor title the def will sky rock from the extra pop.
    We have had 3-5 attackers as our biggest provinces for 5-6 ages with an record of over 30+ win and 2 lost wars only.
    So i do not agree that you keep TMs biggest in the kd.

    NW diff yeah, but with Massacres so what but to prove my point:

    Bocan at 1700 acres with 17 EPA + WT + Forts = 202300 + 2125 * forts of 25% = 253406 Defense + protection = 278746,6 Defense.
    Dryad at 1000 acres 253 700 Offense and Honor + Generals isn't added.

    Ritual:
    Onslaught - +10% OME, will give the Dryad = 25370 more offense
    Barrier - +10% DME, will give the Bocan = 27874,6 more defense

    Now you can break an Bocan 700 acres less.
    Hope i answered your question.

  15. #15
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathlyric View Post
    DavidC, why are we sticking to this Science system when clearly a TM will have a lot less science then an attacker?
    Because t/ms have much more honor and they can protect that honor easier...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathlyric View Post
    We have had 3-5 attackers as our biggest provinces for 5-6 ages with an record of over 30+ win and 2 lost wars only.
    So i do not agree that you keep TMs biggest in the kd.

    NW diff yeah, but with Massacres so what but to prove my point:

    Bocan at 1700 acres with 17 EPA + WT + Forts = 202300 + 2125 * forts of 25% = 253406 Defense + protection = 278746,6 Defense.
    Dryad at 1000 acres 253 700 Offense and Honor + Generals isn't added.

    Ritual:
    Onslaught - +10% OME, will give the Dryad = 25370 more offense
    Barrier - +10% DME, will give the Bocan = 27874,6 more defense

    Now you can break an Bocan 700 acres less.
    Hope i answered your question.
    I didn't say they are the largest but among the largest. Which means even if there are 2-3 big attackers there is a noticeable difference between the t/ms and the attackers below them. Also I'm not talking about your KD strategy but the general meta thinking.

    T/ms being vulnerable to attackers 40-50% smaller than them is not something new.

    However I still think there is no other option for t/m than rogue which is bigger issue...

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