Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Elf/Heretic

  1. #1
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317

    Elf/Heretic

    I don't know from others but Elf/Heretic seems pretty awesome to me. I intend to run it as an A/M/t.

    For personal reference, this may become a longerish post.

    Elf
    +35% WPA
    +15% Tower Efficiency
    +1 Defensive Specialist Strength

    Spell book: Mage's Fury, Chastity, Inspire Army
    Elite: 7/6, 700gc, 8.5 NW

    Heretic
    Wizards do not die on failed spells
    Reduced thief losses on failed operations (-66%)
    +30% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness
    Spell and Operation Damage +15%
    +1 Mana
    Access to Blizzard and Revelation
    Starts with +200 Wizards and +400 thieves

    There are several pros to this combo. First and foremost how they compliment each other with their wpa bonuses. Elf has +35% wpa, I'll use a hypothetical science rating to show how easily this prov can shoot up in wpa. Say after your Heretic bonus, you have +50% wpa from channelling, the result of the combo's bonus will be 2.025 (1.35 1.5 = 2.025) this means the mod wpa is +202.5%. Last time I checked getting +50% in channeling doesn't take all that much effort even without the science modifer of heretic.

    Needless to say, the combo will easily generate insanely high wpa mods. The player can apply this in many ways. For my purposes, I'm going to use it to maintain 6-8+ mod wpa while maintaining a moderately low 3-4 raw wpa. I could get it as high as most T/M's by late age.

    As for thieving, the Heretic persona, by itself helps your prov to manage all three roles. This is due mostly to how the Heretic's bonuses in interacts with thief dens. Both of which effictively raise mod tpa and diminish theif loses on ops. With a mere 5-10% thief dens the Elf/Heretic can effectively rob *(see section on A/t/m for more on this point). If some uses this combo I advice run a minimum 2-3 tpa. Heretic only has basic thief ops but robbery goes a long way in and out of war.

    As an attacker being able to effectively run low raw wpa and tpa will allow the player to train more military than other A/t/m combos. A rather elusive role for most combos imo. I should be able to muster at least a 72% draft target with this combo*(see section on effiency principle). The general military break down will be 8.5 dspa with the rest being 700 gc 7/6 elites, and theives of course.

    Oh boy, told you this maybe a long one. A couple more pros- 1) no penalties is in and of itself a bonus, 2) starting bonus makes it easy to get 2 raw tpa by oop, 3) Heretic's spell damage, mana regeneration, and Elf's tower bonus will make for a super effective FB runner 4) the spell-book beautiful even without MS.

    The effeciency principle- I think by now dear reader you get an idea of what I'm about to say. The key to running this the way I want to is the effeciency of running low raw numbers with super high modifiers allows you to maintain a large overall military and still run ops like a champ.

    On A/t/m- A/t/m can be frustrating even to the most grizzled veterans of Utopia. Were it not for the before mentioned "effeciency principle" this combo has I doubt I would run it at all. I've only seen a few nonsage combos (in the 40+ ages I've roamed Utopia). To be able to run A/t/m effectively in all three roles you'll usually want a densely populated province and some kind of way to eliminate a few buildings yet manage the key buildings for all three roles. You may need to forgo a few options in more than one field. In short, A/t/m requires an astute building strat and is in no way advisable to new/newer players.

    I have some solutions I think to the issues inherent in the triple role prov. I may come back later and talk about the building strategy I'm still chewing on.

    Before I wrap this up, I want to touch on the few cons- 1) nonmystic A/t/m will take time to generate raw wpa to meet the 3-4+ wpa goals (this means most of the age you'll have to run high guild percentages in a build strat which will require a lot of pinching and forgoing of buildings), 2) Elf's raw military numbers leave a lot to be desired, 3) if you want population beyond the maximum science bonuses you'll want to run heavy homes.

    To sum up, this should be an interesting age!
    Last edited by olAllan; 05-11-2017 at 20:03. Reason: *Tried cleaning up the language a little. *The many variables that modify wpa makes it tough to calculate exact bonuses.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  2. #2
    Post Fiend
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    233
    Thing is what good is all that wpa? No nm or ms. So your stuck with fireballs, tornados and landlust. But it would be a fun solo province but I don't see it working in a legit kingdom.

  3. #3
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    :)

    Wpa determines your magic defense. On top of that fireball is the single most important spell in the game.

    If kingdoms don't realize that it's their bad. Yes spreading MS is important but 24/7 MS doesn't have as much of an effect as you might think. Takes a long time to chip away an army with MS alone.

    Lack of nightmares is somewhat disconcerting but whatever. NM has its own uses: its good for softening a target heading into a chain.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  4. #4
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    What is a "legit" kingdom anyhow?
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  5. #5
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    9
    Not sure how it will fare in your KD setup, but enjoyed playing it a few ages ago, especially as a group. It actually turned out to be one of the best ages I've had as an Elf/Heretic.
    Maybe a bit more vulnerable now with dpa, but it should still be a 'fun' age nonetheless. Personally I would have leaned more on war hero for this age.

  6. #6
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by aslan View Post
    Not sure how it will fare in your KD setup, but enjoyed playing it a few ages ago, especially as a group. It actually turned out to be one of the best ages I've had as an Elf/Heretic.
    Maybe a bit more vulnerable now with dpa, but it should still be a 'fun' age nonetheless. Personally I would have leaned more on war hero for this age.
    Elf/War Hero - Looks pretty good as an A/M.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  7. #7
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    Just so you all know. I'm not selling anything here. I'm a very free play kind of guy. I just once in a while feel compelled to talk strategy and this is one avenue to do so (and to a much larger audience no less). Anyhow all crisisms are welcome some are just more appreciated than others. And I tend to retort.
    Last edited by olAllan; 05-11-2017 at 23:10.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  8. #8
    Post Fiend
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    233
    I am not saying elf is bad, elf rogue would be my pick if I went solo. Legit kingdoms have a pre age strategy, dark elf has nm which most kingdoms covet over fireball. Where not running any elfs this age because faeries have higher defense and have more uses. Just saying if I had to pick between a rogue vs heretic, I pick rogue every time. ;)

  9. #9
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    I am not saying elf is bad, elf rogue would be my pick if I went solo. Legit kingdoms have a pre age strategy, dark elf has nm which most kingdoms covet over fireball. Where not running any elfs this age because faeries have higher defense and have more uses. Just saying if I had to pick between a rogue vs heretic, I pick rogue every time. ;)
    I recently took a nasty hit from nightmares. There is a cost effeciency thing.

    Point taken on legit kingdoms. And well said. For my part, I do try to get the ghettos I hop into to organize with varying degrees of success.

    A thief can be my poison with this strat but I will be thick against ops. Unless I get fat in which case, well I'm sure you know. Bear in mind I should be able to run ops as well.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  10. #10
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    Versatility is a strong suite of the combo. I mean, if I run this right, it's going to be capable of A/M/t.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  11. #11
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,137
    Personally I think pala > sage > heretic for an elf a/m/t. Pala has some very strong spells + -losses which makes him strong in defence(like the old elf) and plague immunity which is important because you are attacking. Sage sci bonus is very nice together with Amnesia. Heretic only provides bonus spell/op dmg and +1 mana(I'm not sure how good blizz is - when i was playing rogue I was ignoring it). I don't find that viable enough to be worth picking it over other options.

  12. #12
    Enthusiast olAllan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Personally I think pala > sage > heretic for an elf a/m/t. Pala has some very strong spells + -losses which makes him strong in defence(like the old elf) and plague immunity which is important because you are attacking. Sage sci bonus is very nice together with Amnesia. Heretic only provides bonus spell/op dmg and +1 mana(I'm not sure how good blizz is - when i was playing rogue I was ignoring it). I don't find that viable enough to be worth picking it over other options.
    Those are all good points. Elf/Sage may be, objectively speaking, better to run A/t/m from. Heretic does have a few advantages over it too. For example- they virtually eliminate the need for thief dens. The combo is generally running as it should but it has some glaring weakenesses.

    The issue I'm having with it is based on the tri-role strategy but you'd have that issue with Sage as well.
    Last edited by olAllan; 13-12-2017 at 17:57.
    DEUS SIVE NATURA

  13. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    5
    Palla / Elf sounds nice Bo. FB is indeed strong. The problem is sustaining runes through the war to cast it enough times. I speculate you max production sci first.

  14. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    4
    Hi im an experienced attacker trying the tm side looking for a good dark elf heretic build maybe more thief i seem to need 15% homes 10% farms and banks 8 % aŕms dificulty maintaining 3.5 wpa with like 20% guilds i have an issue losing a lot of wizz early too. Stealing runes type deal and whats a good dpa specs only i have at least 5 or 6 tpa? Should i be using my elites to do the dirty work? 15% td and towers havr been suggested along with dropping banks or arms im cyrrently at 25% guilds barely holdinv on to wizzies. I had troubles vs arson last war too
    Last edited by skjorn4444; 15-12-2017 at 06:56.

  15. #15
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    430
    Hi,
    Firstly, you mentioned (in your other thread) you are playing a hybrid. You have also referred to your tpa and wpa, so I'm taking that to mean you are trying to run a/t/m. If so, that is a hard combo to choose. With the wpa and tpa you have mentioned, if you want a good defence then your offence will be low.

    On your build, if you are having problems being opped, then I'd add WTs. I wouldn't have arms in war. Generally people would pump wpa outside of war so you wouldn't need to try to maintain 3.5 wpa with 20% guilds. Instead, you'd run much higher guilds at some point to get the wpa you want, then switch down to, say, 20% guilds for war. I would normally run TDs as a/t/m (or as t/m) but given you are heretic i'm not sure if it's worth it as you already have reduced losses - someone else can comment on that.

    I would use elites for defense rather than def specs given that you are dark elf.
    Last edited by Chris121; 15-12-2017 at 10:19.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •