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Thread: Elf/Heretic

  1. #16
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    Dec 2017
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    4
    The triple combo is just coming naturally the thieves are mostly stealing runes and gc but is stronger than my wizzies which again i lost a lot early somehow laat war and have been having troyble pumping them in between. How can i go more specifically into am or at instead given thd circumstance and thanks for the reply

  2. #17
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    5 or 6 raw tpa is quite a lot to be stealing runes and gc. Personally, when I run a/t/m, I'd run more like 3-4 raw tpa, 4 raw wpa and that gives me enough space to also have a decent army (depending on the race set up etc, this age is not in my view one of the strongest ages to run a/t/m). Having good sciences would be important to make that work well.

    However my numbers aren't the only way to do it, and how you set it up depends largely on what you want to be able to do with your offence. If you only plan on finishing chains or hitting low def provs, then what you have can work as you don't need a very high offence. So a large part depends how your set up will fit in with your KD strategy.

    Given that you are heretic (with bonuses to thievery and magic) it does make sense to try to use both thievery and magic, so I wouldn't necessarily say give up on a/t/m entirely.

    But if you want to run a/t or a/m then just reduce the thieves or wizards accordingly. Personally at a/t I still wouldn't normally run as high as 5 or 6 raw tpa, but some people would so I wouldn't say it's wrong (nb I would personally use TDs though so that boosts my mod tpa). Remember though you only need enough tpa to do what you want to do with it. So if you are planning to op enemy attackers, then you only need to be able to beat their tpa by enough to allow you to do that.

    In practice, some of the decision may be made for you. For example if you lose more wizards in the next war, you might need to go a/t for a while whilst you re-gain wpa.

  3. #18
    Post Fiend
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    Nov 2014
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    243
    There is no wrong choice in personalty, it is all about how you use your freaking resources as a kingdom on a whole. The monarch/steward needs manages the resources on hand in the most efficient manner possible.
    If they miss appropriate it, then it is less than efficient which makes the viewpoint of the personality sucks balls... which isn't true, it only means they don't know how to use that resource properly.
    On a note a hybrid role is harder to handle with due to the fact they are not a straight role. So builds/targets/options can be different from straight roles, which the player and the monarch needs to realize being 99% of builds/playstyles are straight roles.

    Going on that thought process:
    In the case of a Heretic with stealth you should be doing Riots, then NS/Arson/Stealing with remaining Stealth (unless your on permanent Riot duty, which I do recommend being you have reduced losses)....... that frees up rogues stealth to do Prop/NS/AW/GArson/etc. Let the attackers get intel and steal from easy targets.

    A heretic with mana (especially an Elf Heretic), you can be doing Blizzards/Greed/Storms/Droughts/Chasity/Explosions (need a static options from monarch being you have limited mana/runes)... that frees up the mystics mana which have a dmg bonus do FB/Nados/ExposeThieves/etc. Need to also figure in what attackers should do when chained too.
    Last edited by RedPanda; 16-12-2017 at 02:28.
    A outerworld vagabond Elf traveling this world.
    From the world of Thardferr, herald of the Eldar Elven Kingdoms
    Elven Roles sense Age 63: Sage, Mystic, Rogue, Tactician, Cleric, Merchant, Heretic, War Hero, Warrior, Paladin, Undead,

  4. #19
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    Dec 2017
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    Ok i like what im hearing how about my buildings? there is an issue with me accessing upoopu for intel knowing who to steal from. How can i recognize a target to steal from before trying to gather the intel myself if i must? Id like to try orc rogue next age..... and remember im currently dark elf not regular with heretic.


    As for my kingdom im having tr1oubles being war ready by eowcf its a new concept involving mills
    Last edited by skjorn4444; 19-12-2017 at 07:21.

  5. #20
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    Aug 2008
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    I commented on your build in my original post responding to you - see post #15.

    Utopia has in-built espionage info from a link on the enemy kd page. It's not great but will show you who has stuff to steal (if your KD has taken the intel recently).

    I suggest you wait to see the age changes before you think about next age.

    Unless you are exploring *a lot* in the EOWCF, I wouldn't use mills. Even if you are exploring a lot, I'm not sure I would use them (and if you are having trouble being ready you probably shouldn't explore that much in future unless your KD is going to help you).

  6. #21
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    Sep 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by olAllan View Post
    I don't know from others but Elf/Heretic seems pretty awesome to me. I intend to run it as an A/M/t.

    For personal reference, this may become a longerish post.

    Elf
    +35% WPA
    +15% Tower Efficiency
    +1 Defensive Specialist Strength

    Spell book: Mage's Fury, Chastity, Inspire Army
    Elite: 7/6, 700gc, 8.5 NW

    Heretic
    Wizards do not die on failed spells
    Reduced thief losses on failed operations (-66%)
    +30% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness
    Spell and Operation Damage +15%
    +1 Mana
    Access to Blizzard and Revelation
    Starts with +200 Wizards and +400 thieves

    There are several pros to this combo. First and foremost how they compliment each other with their wpa bonuses. Elf has +35% wpa, I'll use a hypothetical science rating to show how easily this prov can shoot up in wpa. Say after your Heretic bonus, you have +50% wpa from channelling, the result of the combo's bonus will be 2.025 (1.35 1.5 = 2.025) this means the mod wpa is +202.5%. Last time I checked getting +50% in channeling doesn't take all that much effort even without the science modifer of heretic.

    Needless to say, the combo will easily generate insanely high wpa mods. The player can apply this in many ways. For my purposes, I'm going to use it to maintain 6-8+ mod wpa while maintaining a moderately low 3-4 raw wpa. I could get it as high as most T/M's by late age.

    As for thieving, the Heretic persona, by itself helps your prov to manage all three roles. This is due mostly to how the Heretic's bonuses in interacts with thief dens. Both of which effictively raise mod tpa and diminish theif loses on ops. With a mere 5-10% thief dens the Elf/Heretic can effectively rob *(see section on A/t/m for more on this point). If some uses this combo I advice run a minimum 2-3 tpa. Heretic only has basic thief ops but robbery goes a long way in and out of war.

    As an attacker being able to effectively run low raw wpa and tpa will allow the player to train more military than other A/t/m combos. A rather elusive role for most combos imo. I should be able to muster at least a 72% draft target with this combo*(see section on effiency principle). The general military break down will be 8.5 dspa with the rest being 700 gc 7/6 elites, and theives of course.

    Oh boy, told you this maybe a long one. A couple more pros- 1) no penalties is in and of itself a bonus, 2) starting bonus makes it easy to get 2 raw tpa by oop, 3) Heretic's spell damage, mana regeneration, and Elf's tower bonus will make for a super effective FB runner 4) the spell-book beautiful even without MS.

    The effeciency principle- I think by now dear reader you get an idea of what I'm about to say. The key to running this the way I want to is the effeciency of running low raw numbers with super high modifiers allows you to maintain a large overall military and still run ops like a champ.

    On A/t/m- A/t/m can be frustrating even to the most grizzled veterans of Utopia. Were it not for the before mentioned "effeciency principle" this combo has I doubt I would run it at all. I've only seen a few nonsage combos (in the 40+ ages I've roamed Utopia). To be able to run A/t/m effectively in all three roles you'll usually want a densely populated province and some kind of way to eliminate a few buildings yet manage the key buildings for all three roles. You may need to forgo a few options in more than one field. In short, A/t/m requires an astute building strat and is in no way advisable to new/newer players.

    I have some solutions I think to the issues inherent in the triple role prov. I may come back later and talk about the building strategy I'm still chewing on.

    Before I wrap this up, I want to touch on the few cons- 1) nonmystic A/t/m will take time to generate raw wpa to meet the 3-4+ wpa goals (this means most of the age you'll have to run high guild percentages in a build strat which will require a lot of pinching and forgoing of buildings), 2) Elf's raw military numbers leave a lot to be desired, 3) if you want population beyond the maximum science bonuses you'll want to run heavy homes.

    To sum up, this should be an interesting age!
    Might work at a more ghetto level but you're going to have to start walking the straight and narrow once you come up against more organised opposition. Assuming, you run only enough sendable offense to semi-finish chains, hit low def provs, you're safe from massacres for a start. The biggest problem as you stated is penny pinching on buildings, i.e. you're probably not going to run much WTs. That leaves you vulnerable to an MV of your CS, followed up by a AW run from 3-4 rogues cutting your rWPA in half.

    However, your combo could still work at higher levels being a jack of all trades if you focus on a purely support role and take on the burden of maintaining riots, greed 24/7, MVing NB off the next chain target and getting droughts on, that sort of thing.

  7. #22
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    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    13
    How much td should we run for darkelf herectic ? Being a,t,m

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