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Thread: Winning wars

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySports View Post
    My kingdom watches for this. If your army is home, we can destroy it, and have in the past. We have beaten more organized kingdoms before, because they try to hold a few armies to hit a wave time, and we would see that army home and go for blood. If you are fighting a kingdom that isnt very observant, or doesnt know how to adjust their strategy to the situaion, you will probably be fine. Any respectable war kingdom (and I dont think we are there yet ourselves) would demolish any attacker that lets his army linger.

    Dont rely on wave times if your kingdom can't manage them reliably. There are other ways to win.
    This is true and there are exceptions to every rule. Say Chris121 observes a window in the rotation, then perhaps his kingdom can hash a small concentrated spearhead. This is where the game can get incredible complex if you're camping or adjusting time patterns to pound armies home. It's not a kingdom strat unless you've got real time intel feed and troop distribution. I've seen it in epic wars.

    I'm systematically too slow and mentally too lethargic to accomplish camping/timing feats myself, so my patterns are based in fighting faster thinking, faster executing players. If you ever watch boxing, most fighters suffer when facing faster opponents. This is particularly true if a very fast fighter is matched against an even faster one. The exceptions are few but notable; like Marvin Hagler. So if we pattern ourselves in this light. Marvin could throw great punches from every angle, and most importantly, with both hands. He was also incredibly durable.

    How do I back up that theory? When I soloed(1 province in a kingdom shell) in age 63 I encountered BeastBlood who randomed me. I'd already been experimenting with War Spoils and when to use them. So this is more about fishing than triumph. After casting WS and retaliating I built my acres. When I pressed the Order Construction tab I had like 14 acres. I checked news and Emeriti struck whilst I was in the process. Then I retaliated Emeriti but didn't cast WS. This doesn't mean WS is wrong, it's when you have clearance.

    But the bigger lesson was the value of seeing how fast top kingdoms operate. If you consider not just the computation and execution but the relevant intel digestion, this was something I'd never seen. These are important things to learn and the value of knowing shouldn't be squandered on hopelessness.

    Now when engaging top kingdoms through retaliation I run a progressive aggression technique. That's a reaction to every action and the option to double up if *necessary. The reason I don't go full Monty on top kingdoms is because they tend to be *reasonable. They're experienced enough to see I'm dropping breadcrumbs to a CF. Fundamentally, this is armies out but I'm punching nw/acres where they have redundancy and I'm not maxing. When I did this to a war kingdom they were bent out of shape because they had a war on the horizon. For some reason they think it's cool to keep armies safe in my province. Anywho, even after explaining I hit said province in a nw/acre redundant spot they still weren't happy. - note: I'm not afraid of being PK'd. In other words I was so nice that I didn't interrupt their chain formation. How many guys would do that for you?

    * reference code: Sleepy, or coss.

    Insofar as armies struck at home, my protracted view of this was vs Freeakstyle. While I'll credit FS with fantastic work I must also fault my kingdom for overbearing micro. This was not only slow but telegraphed our intent. Management was overly concerned about maxing a hit rather than catching Freeakstyle where they didn't expect to be compromised. It's why I chose to gather my own intel and troop expenditure. And if this was the only kingdom that made that mistake.....no, this happens in a number of wave oriented kingdoms with a wave "boss" where they tell you what to send without sharing the actual defense.

    Disasters ensue when wave bosses gamble with you and your position. This is particularly true of chain waves which are magnificently derailable(it's not a word but should be). Here they are gathering intel on 1-3 enemy provinces which is begging for soldier blocks and getting armies crushed at home. I know you're attacking in nw/land order lol; how could I not? Just so you know why zone tactics blossom in wave based environments.

    Again, chain waves work because Timmy needs to be at school in a half hour, or my boss is watching me. I'm not insensitive to life's dictation on gameplay and thus understand the culture of chain waves. We end up agreeing on when etc. Top kingdoms have even perfected the ideal, but have also accepted that this is a campaign.

    The game is a campaign as soon as you choose races and personalities. Top kingdom might even choose whoring templates first and then the race and personality that fits best. I wouldn't know, but I'd imagine.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 25-11-2017 at 12:34.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  2. #47
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    Mini-waves can be effective too, if you do teams of people from similar time-zones. We have experimented with this briefly, but were not in a good position to fully test it.

    The thing about not having wave times in a time-zone diverse group, is someone ALWAYS has an army coming home. If an army sits home for more than 30 minutes or so, the chances are really good we will be able to hit them with armies home. Bribe Generals, Pitfalls if we are trying to kill their offense, or do without if we are trying to overpop them before they can send out again. Stealing the war horses off of a Dryad can be extremely effective at dropping their offense as well. Even Propoganda has a place, if you were saving your strealth for a big run, or even get a few rogues in to do it. It's all situational on what you have available at the time. (We played to this, by some of our most active players picking up on rogue, which proved to be extremely effective in our last war, ambushing their top offenses with ops as soon as their army returns)

    But everything plays into my overarching theme here. Be flexible, and play to your strengths. If you can't manage wave times, don't. Give everyone a goal to strive for, and adjust your plans as the war evolves. Finally, lean on your best players. By best, I don't mean the guy that casts spells and manages their province well but never speaks, I mean the person who is always pointing out a weakness or opportunity as they show themselves, who will nearly beggar themselves to help the kingdom. Those are the people I want in my kingdom. I don't care what someone can do by themselves, I care what we can accomplish as a group!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySports View Post
    Those are the people I want in my kingdom. I don't care what someone can do by themselves, I care what we can accomplish as a group!
    I do find it sadly amusing how teamwork is a very overlooked factor in the lower war tier, in a team based strategy game no less.

    -DM <3

  4. #49
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    Snatch News interpretation is an important talent and/or skill. I'm not sure which but I know I lack the talent.

    In war I've noted kingdoms that evidently did a good job at SN cyphering. These kingdoms tend to squash economy more effectively and starve attackers properly.

    One kingdom I interviewed after our defeat claimed they put their best players at rogue. I noticed they worked more in war theatrics than focal to rogue capabilities. They used their stealth purposefully and directed attacks appropriate to objectives. These days there are more options so these strategies are more accessible to the masses.

    It's important to point out that these weren't competitive war or whoring kingdoms. They had a few dedicated players who worked together to achieve the leverage necessary for their casual players to complete the task.

    Another example was a kingdom that utilized the zone tactics I've used to achieve containment and unbreakability for their top provinces with fairly low kingdom activity. Again, this was the work of a dedicated few with a casual core. Their tactics included a camper dwarf merchant, one avian warrior and one avian tac. The dwarf merchant and avian warrior were aces and caught on to me catching onto them. Despite my best efforts I couldn't break containment as they marauded the nw frontier. I knew I could take down the avian tac if I could get a break from the warrior but he'd have none of it. Besides those guys they had a sleeper orc at near chain level who dragged our guys down who got blindsided by the dwarf merchant.

    The only reason I was able to make several breakthrough attempts was because I used zone tactics to resist chaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  5. #50
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    :O That is a bunch of info.

  6. #51
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    One more thing about chaining/ambush/max gains.

    In the chain system and narrow target selection spawned from chain tactics there's a great deal of squandered offense. The passive advantage to this is, if you can't get intel you can send generous overages to ensure attack success.

    The mechanical disadvantage of pure chaining is that your high powered offenses are taking unnecessary losses vs absolutely breakable targets. In essense they aren't just not hitting the targets with higher defenses, they're burning the offense they'll need to break these "last enemy" provinces.

    Another factor is the "FB" target: Yknow the guy you're supposed to save for the t/ms to control. We waste too much time on these forgone targets. This is why I zone. This isn't the challenge. Some toy you can break at your whim while they hit and drain economy from your attackers is not always sound.

    Very simply, there are strategies that should occur. One that works if the math is dizzying is to take what they need. One big one, especially in good dwarf ages, is time. Do not give dwarves time. Pure chaining is kind of wasted here because unscathed dwarves are absolute monsters if left alone. You have to understand how important it is to keep dwarves greatest strength(buildings/cool elite) in the pipe and not in production. You can chain some but you must get your hands on every dwarf. You want acre feed for your side and you want breakable enemies at all levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  7. #52
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    In my experience, it has been very rare for an attackers offense to be 'squandered' on over sending simply to break. Every attacker is chaining by sending the smallest amount of offense to break as possible, because we are aiming to chain or hit as many targets as possible. In the rare cases it happens, more often than not it is at the bottom end of the chain, where the attacks are less important.

    We have had many wars where we have left those high defense provs til last because there are many mods that allow for defense to be quickly worked down. Effective chaining also removes offense from the enemy allowing you to employ other strategies like bouncing down a players large defense.

    Dwarves are definitely strong in being the last to be taken down. The quick build times, and high defense elite allows for them to resist, but they are not in a vaccum. If everyone else folds around them, they too will soon fall to an organised opponent, they will just resist a little longer.

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