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Thread: Winning wars

  1. #16
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    Times Zones. All about the Time Zones.

    /end thread xD jk

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies are people too View Post
    Times Zones. All about the Time Zones.

    /end thread xD jk

    -DM <3
    That's part of The Virtual Kingdom divisional array. I'm just not offering the breadth of information each age because I'm compartmentally lazy. It's part of the Eliptical Wave.

    It was mentioned that individual techniques in war might not serve the greater good. This depends on the structure of the overall strategy. Observe the war between 7:19 and 6:12.

    What you're seeing from the orc driven core of 6:12 is what I'm doing in micro. There are roughly 13 provinces occupying a nw area that all belong to 6:12. Follow because this how you achieve permanent and critical chaining.

    The achievement of the nw zone through chaining itself is nearly impossible but is the manner in how most kingdoms war. That is, chaining doesn't achieve this. There's a window you work from that's a bit more complex than max gains, but hardly complicated. Your interest doesn't lie in going bonkers for acres, but in preservation of the overall functionality of the zone occupying force.

    Essentially all your doing is creating a zone of monitoring, a nw/acre sweep or firing arc. Intuition is your friend because the t/ms will come after you once they see the machine in action. Once the zone is established your responsibilities are compressing the enemy chained to both reduce their gains potential and their economic ratio. You're in a position to chain enemies above you in land/nw. Obviously the more friends that occupy the zone the more concentrated the chain effect will be. You now have positioned yourself not unlike a D&D fighter in a hallway vs the enemy horde. Where did I get that from? 40 years of gaming teaches you mechanical Pig Latin.

    The initial 8 race 8 persona alignment of Utopia was very similar to the double row alignment of chess. The back row is your non-core role-players. The devs have deviated from that fundamental principal but I find it an interesting advancement.

    We have many kingdoms who run their waves as if there was no such thing as a flank. Observing the top war between 6:12 and 7:19 I'm endeavoring to show the uninitiated that flanks do exist in Utopia. If you can see the flank then you know there's a spearhead, you know there's an assault, and in the interest of my individual efforts, urban warfare(house to house, room to room).
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 19-11-2017 at 16:52.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
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    I freely admit that when i read your posts, I have to read them twice to absorb everything xD To this day I'm still never quite sure if it's all acid-induced free flow or the tangent of pure genius lol. Either way, I totally get what your'e saying this time despite the metaphors, makes perfect sense, and I'm somewhat spooked ;D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies are people too View Post
    I freely admit that when i read your posts, I have to read them twice to absorb everything xD To this day I'm still never quite sure if it's all acid-induced free flow or the tangent of pure genius lol. Either way, I totally get what your'e saying this time despite the metaphors, makes perfect sense, and I'm somewhat spooked ;D

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    ure not alone, imagine having to read strato's war plan on rc.

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    It was anticipated.

    So The Virtual Kingdom operates with each division having objectives that they pursue "in house". This means each division makes its own plan to achieve its objective. The theory here is that micro will be more efficient and timely, serving the macro.

    There are 5 divisions, each division includes 5 provinces.
    There are 5 council members, each division has one representative.

    The division array is comprised of 2 spearhead, 2 assault and 1 support.
    They operate on a wave ellipse incorporating a possible 5 and minimum 3 GMT frames.
    The division system is based in prime wave times from all 3 major time zones and 2 tertiary.

    There are cultural foundations that bring order to The Virtual Kingdom. The theory is to bring 5 players each from 5 different kingdoms together. These can be from failed kingdoms or kingdoms during an age off. The point in this merge is to preserve the inherent teamwork that keep these players together. Thus, we want these divisions to operate independently AND be part of the whole. ~ The influence was big city Burroughs with their Chinatown and Little Italy. ~
    Additionally, there will be the expected healthy competition between divisions. The hope is that one division learn from the other.

    In summary this is my version of controlled chaos. The Virtual Kingdom looks like a ghetto, appears to wave like a ghetto and to be fragmented in its objectives like a ghetto. The wave ellipse brings a mutating adaptation based in my experience running uniques. There is a real time capital in being close to the action tick by tick.

    We might start discussing diplomacy, pump and prime declaration. These are the winning directives of the higher tiers. Mechanical brilliance is expected at that level. I've gone through a few top pump whoring cycles but I'd prefer a top player advise in this area.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 20-11-2017 at 04:15.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam View Post
    What are the best strategies for winning wars? Include your thoughts on setup/positioning strategy, fighting tactics, and methods of getting wars. What are optimal number of thief mages vs pure attackers and how do these ratios affect the outcomes?
    I think this is a very valueable topic. It would be great, if we could come back to this question. Bo To, Changeling, and NighT added some great ideas and insight. I would be happy to read more of this kind.

  7. #22
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    Threads been up long enough i figure i got some free time to comment :D

    Quote Originally Posted by NighT View Post
    Best strategy to win a war - secure UB, control enemy's peasants via ops/spells, deep chain high off attackers :).
    This.... I might tweak the wording to Secure safe provs, control enemy econ, remove enemy offense as a more general wording. Nights wordings is more in line with the classsic freakstyle setup that doesnt take as much skill to run, just ALOT of skill to determine racial makeup/mix compared to normal kds. To that end
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    you realize there are 100 different ways to play and win.
    are a TON of different setups able to do this, but every war comes down to ---safe provs, better econ, enemy lossing offense compared to your def.

    Getting back to this
    Quote Originally Posted by MeIkor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam View Post
    What are the best strategies for winning wars? Include your thoughts on setup/positioning strategy, fighting tactics, and methods of getting wars. What are optimal number of thief mages vs pure attackers and how do these ratios affect the outcomes?
    I think this is a very valueable topic. It would be great, if we could come back to this question. Bo To, Changeling, and NighT added some great ideas and insight. I would be happy to read more of this kind.
    i'll summarize my thoughts.

    i personally cant really judge these types of questions beyond the t/m v pure attacker #'s because they all boil down to which setup is able to "Secure safe provs, control enemy econ, remove enemy offense" better. Oftentimes science/honor/size alone can determine this better than anything else :|

    As for the attacker v t/m #'s what it boils down to me is either
    1.you use a few t/m setup (typically more hybrid focused) where you can simply overwhelm the enemy with your attackers and out econ quick (keeping your own safe)
    -here you simply ignor the enemy t/m's because you know u can outpump the damage they do and start massacring them if they have more than you can deal with in nw range before "winning"
    -The number of t/m's and hybrids you run is 100% based on how many you need to "Speed up" chaining/training via say nm/ns/prop.....and how "Safe" your acres/econ are once you grow
    2.You run a heavy t/m setup where u grind out a win.
    -here you need to be able to deal with the enemy t/m's using your own t/m's via ops AND be able to completely remove the enemy attackers as a threat
    -Here its more important remove ALL enemy econ than to build your own additional econ. over time low training and high military losses add up and u start pulling ahead.
    Last edited by Persain; 20-11-2017 at 18:07.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeIkor View Post
    I think this is a very valueable topic. It would be great, if we could come back to this question. Bo To, Changeling, and NighT added some great ideas and insight. I would be happy to read more of this kind.
    On this I agree with Persain just said in that it's really hard to be more specific than what has been said. There are tons of ways to win and different set ups to suit each of those ways. Ultimately it comes down to working out what you would like your plan to be and then building a set up around that. Part of what is optimal for whatever your strategy is depends on the game mechanics / dynamics - the comparison between t/ms vs attackers vs hybrids changes each/most age.

    I would say that for a less experienced KD, it is easier to create a plan and stick to the plan if you have mostly pure attackers and a few hybrids / t/ms, because you have fewer parts of the strategy to pull together and are less dependent on KD members to follow the plan (ie with attackers, you need them to successfully attack the right target, which is hopefully a relatively low hurdle. With a hybrid set up you need that plus people to do the right ops and have their provs set up well enough at the start that they can succeed with the ops etc).

  9. #24
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    I'm amused that the strategy mod, presumably chosen for his game knowledge and experience, has posted this thread and then abandoned it.

    Doesn't seem to be contributing anything as a mod?

    Probably scrapping war strats from kds so that emeriti can have a successful oop one of these days.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    I'm amused that the strategy mod, presumably chosen for his game knowledge and experience, has posted this thread and then abandoned it.

    Doesn't seem to be contributing anything as a mod?

    Probably scrapping war strats from kds so that emeriti can have a successful oop one of these days.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/2xyiFp7bVjKik/giphy.gif


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    I'm amused that the strategy mod, presumably chosen for his game knowledge and experience, has posted this thread and then abandoned it.

    Doesn't seem to be contributing anything as a mod?

    Probably scrapping war strats from kds so that emeriti can have a successful oop one of these days.
    Well we messed that plan all up by turning it into a convo about basic beginner strategies!

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    I'd also like to stress the importance of building strategy in a war. And especially, hospitals, GS, and WTs.
    Those are the buildings that let you keep what you have in the long run. If you're jumping into war without appropriate levels of those key buildings, it doesn't matter (to a degree) how much more offense/defense you have than the other side, a KD with proper building set up can outlast you in the long-run.

  13. #28
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    Aquaseafoam simply posed a question, and simply answering that question is moot. We all know we need oxygen, and to improve on that you exercise, eat right and get plenty of sleep.

    The real question is what gets you there. The answer to that is deeper. Oh I get that "simplicity is the best way" but simple how? In practice I'd venture most aren't prepared to share because they're too worried about winning. Let me explain:

    Sometimes when asked about which kingdom we should war I've told my many monarchs I'll fight anyone. What I really mean is I want the unwinnable wars. I want the wars against the best competition regardless of my kingdoms condition and that's why I tell my monarchs that my opinion isn't important.

    Winning is irrelevant to me in that I've no interest in warring a kingdom that will most probably lose. It would be easy for me to obtain a leadership role and look for ill equipped kingdoms to stuff my ego full of empty victories. I have to express this because I've been in maybe 100 kingdoms from top 5 to the last. I've seen all their weaknesses and know their limits in war.

    It's that some feel winning is hard and it's not. Most of what keeps kingdoms from winning is unwillingness to adapt and be truthful to their potential. You can be in a semi-active winning kingdom if you know that the leverage of winning is based in the principals we all seem to be answering with "exercise, eat right and get plenty of sleep". Of coarse of coarse, securing UB.

    Ok, so how do you secure UB? The mistake most kingdoms make is chaining as their first strategic idiom. This "works"(? It really doesn't) within the lower tier framework because they all subscribe to this. What I'm saying is chaining highest offense is a culture like cargo cults. Nobody really knows why they're doing this except that it looks mechanically like a good idea. But since both sides are doing it you end up having an activity contest.

    It's like the defensive balance is forgotten and the relationship that these things are one. Persain knows this because I'm privy to his fundamental kingdom design. I'm not aware of his strategic methods, which is good, but I'm aware of the cards he prefers to play.

    My methods are as much pageantry as strategy. There's a glorification and a straightening of lines when I'm in my element. I don't pretend to be a kingdom overlord. I've never joined a kingdom to experience winning. I've joined winners to see what they do to win, but I find the environment uncomfortable because it often requires you to embrace advantages over challenges.

    So you see how to pump. It's not hard if you do diplomacy. You do diplomacy based directly to your potential in whoring not warring. Warring kingdoms might exchange diplomacy but it's your relationship with top predators that dictates what is virtually UB. Do your taxes and pretend to be a badass.

    Pumping: I've retained a top pump strat formula that I can't read because I'm terrible at math. But I did go through pump cycles and eyeballed the equations. Funny thing is I came out a little fat just like I do anywhere else but my resource yield was well in excess of my contemporaries. So in my first pump I end up sending gold to other attacker provinces that underperformed, sent 3 mil to the dragon and had the rest of my excess held by UBs. Let me remind you that a province with a great tb is easier to dig out.

    In war my orc cleric would end up going it alone. As one war went on and our advantageous position faded I was promised aid that never arrived. My acres were razed to over 80% unbuilt and I never requested aid for the entirety of that war and all wars I spent in top kingdoms.

    What My Top Kingdom Did Right: diplomacy.

    The top I was in had basic rules of engagement. If the random you attacked retaliates you tell leadership and they will instruct from there. This is very good. Even though I'm experienced and know how to random in relative safety, I appreciate this level of infrastructure. Generally they were trying to secure CF from the retaliating entity. I was never randomed in a top kingdom just so you might understand the pump potential associated with good diplomacy.

    What My Top Kingdom Did Wrong: war micro.

    It became evident to me quickly that my war leaders weren't war savvy. They knew a great deal about mechanics but didn't understand the struggle in the many facets that I've faced. What might those be?

    Singlehandedly derailing waves and countering derailing attempts.

    Recognizing the true heart of the enemy kingdom.

    Overbearing control over experienced players.

    Telegraphing their every move because they micro'd too intensely.

    Unfamiliar with setting pace, taking initiative and killer instinct.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 21-11-2017 at 04:35.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

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