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Thread: To the Game Admins

  1. #16
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    All actions are dealt with on a case by case basis and will never be exactly the same as any other situation. For that reason standards are difficult to outline and draw from. However, in this instance we draw from previous examples such as: KD A agrees to war KD B. KD B accepts, attacks are traded and war begins (pre-proposal style). KD A then halts all attacks to make the appearance that KD A & KD B have an arranged fake war wherein KD B will farm KD A, KD A will surrender to give KD B the war win and KD B will be deleted and actioned for cheating thus being deleted from rankings. KD A does this entirely behind the back of KD B to punish them for some previous digression, or just as a favor to friends. Is KD B at fault in any way? No. Should KD B be punished in any way? No. Could this have been avoided by KD B in any way? Doubtful. Does it look very bad for KD B? Yes.
    What should be done?
    KD A should be punished.
    Should KD B be allowed to retain everything that had been gained?
    1) Yes. They had no knowledge of what KD A was planning and should not have their age ruined because of vindictive players looking to hurt KD B for any (or no) reason.
    2) No. It can't be proven that KD B had no knowledge of KD A intentions (or it was schemed to appear this way) and would be unfair to allow them the unfair advantage and benefits that come from this fake war scenario just because they had no knowledge. The no knowledge part can be easily deceived and makes judgement difficult. In the future this could be done and schemed to look like this such that KD B gets to keep the land and only KD A gets punished. Therefore, judgement must be made to determine the result of KD B for being the victim.
    OR
    3) No. KD A & KD B were in on it together to make it look like option 1) should be enforced and allow KD B unfair advantages over the competition for scheming with their friends. Therefore, both KD A and KD B should result with deletions and suspensions, among other things.


    With the introduction of War Proposals in their current form, what happened to your KD is an unfortunate result that is similar to the above outlined scenario. Your KD had no knowledge of what was going on inside the opponent KD, all you knew was you had a war declaration button and the chance to farm easy acres and honor with effectively zero risk.
    Should your KD have received deletions? suspensions? removal of acres? pushed directly out of war & full KD suspensions? These are all potential consequences of fake wars. We saw fit that your KD had done no wrong and should not be punished under historical standards yet we could not allow the war to continue. Your KD has lost out on some time, your plans have been changed however you did make that decision. You actively made the decision alter your existing course of action to reap the potential free rewards of the farm war that had been presented to you. As others have mentioned, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Had you NOT declared on this KD, another KD likely would have and that other KD would be in this position and not you.

    For clarity, the Monarch of the opposing KD was controlling two (2) provinces in his KD. Both of the accounts have been banned.


    To summarize, your Kingdom was not really punished in any sense of the word by any historical standards. Your Kingdom was not allowed to engage in what could have easily been construed as a fake war and actually been punished for, which you should probably be thankful for. Had the genius who dragged you into this actually been half-witted once the war started he would have begun sending messages to you stating fake war terms and agreements etc to make you appear to be a co-conspirator and take you down with himself. Wouldn't we be having a much different conversation had that happened? You would be arguing for option 1) and trying to prove that you had nothing to do with it (because you in fact did have nothing to do with it).

    I hope that provides a bit of clarity into the situation and the actions that we took.

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    But from the sound of it you didnt get punished at all, you should be happy. A war that is fake cant be allowed to continue even if its just fake from one side. True you got sorta indirectly "punished" but there is no other feasiable option.
    Thank you Korp. Not trying to get the admins to apologise unconditionally or even acknowledge they made a mistake. The whole point of this post was to try and get the admins feedback about future actions to build a case for my kd mates to stay in the game.

    Right now, it feels like the admins took 1 minute and decided "oh well" without enquiring further or even getting our views on this. Would it be so hard to message our monarch and stew to get their side of the story before deciding what is a suitable action to take?

  3. #18
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    EDIT: The part about sending messages etc to make you appear to be a culprit in the fake war usually comes with reporting and other such evidence to make you look guilty. I read your messages to him and while I do believe your contention, it still does not make it acceptable. What's to stop your friends from doing the same thing after your war, sending you a similar message and you responding in the same way? Drawing that line and making those judgements is never going to be clear cut and dry. In this instance it was easy to see what was truly going on, but when things get muddy and it's difficult to determine true intent the correct course of action becomes less clear. In this instance it was clear that this should not have happened and therefore it was halted.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post

    I hope that provides a bit of clarity into the situation and the actions that we took.
    Thank you David for that lengthy explanation and insight.

    I appreciate that you guys have a hard time trying to infer player's intentions from ingame communications and ingame events when there are other tools that could be used without for communication and without ever coming to your knowledge.

    However, if I may offer a suggestion, for future events, I hope you may consider awarding the blameless kingdom and/or the blameless provinces in the offending kingdom some sort of compensation to "put them back in the position they were in before war" so to speak.

    It could be as simple as offering 1xprov acres in building creds and 0.5x prov acres in spec creds. Just something for people to switch stuff back to so they can drop eowcf early if they choose to.

    As I've said before, under normal circumstances, even the loser of a war comes out at the end with credits of some sort so to have the war be ended in an abrupt manner without any explanation or compensation whatsoever felt like adding salt to the injury.

    At least now, we have an explanation and I thank you again for it.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    EDIT: The part about sending messages etc to make you appear to be a culprit in the fake war usually comes with reporting and other such evidence to make you look guilty. I read your messages to him and while I do believe your contention, it still does not make it acceptable. What's to stop your friends from doing the same thing after your war, sending you a similar message and you responding in the same way? Drawing that line and making those judgements is never going to be clear cut and dry. In this instance it was easy to see what was truly going on, but when things get muddy and it's difficult to determine true intent the correct course of action becomes less clear. In this instance it was clear that this should not have happened and therefore it was halted.
    Errr, sorry? I think you're confusing us (6:4) with the earlier kd that 1:9 warred (6:2).

    To the best of my knowledge, whoever was left in 1:9 dropped that accusation very quickly, even in these public forums, when it is clear that we had no idea what was going on.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by emerix View Post
    Errr, sorry? I think you're confusing us (6:4) with the earlier kd that 1:9 warred (6:2).

    To the best of my knowledge, whoever was left in 1:9 dropped that accusation very quickly, even in these public forums, when it is clear that we had no idea what was going on.
    who the **** are these ghettos???

  7. #22
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    Lol

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post

    Your KD has lost out on some time, your plans have been changed however you did make that decision. You actively made the decision alter your existing course of action to reap the potential free rewards of the farm war that had been presented to you. As others have mentioned, if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Had you NOT declared on this KD, another KD likely would have and that other KD would be in this position and not you.
    I appreciate it is a difficult balance and there probably isn't an answer to please everyone. I also don't know the specifics of these two KDs and don't really want to get involved in it.

    But looking more generally, if this is suggesting that KDs should not accept war proposals that they think are too easy, that seems odd. If it is felt that the game currently allows KDs to offer war to KDs that are too much smaller than them, then why not change the rules on the war offer range? If it is felt that the war offer range is correct, then it seems harsh to say that a KD receiving an offer that is "too good to be true" shouldn't have accepted it.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    I appreciate it is a difficult balance and there probably isn't an answer to please everyone. I also don't know the specifics of these two KDs and don't really want to get involved in it.

    But looking more generally, if this is suggesting that KDs should not accept war proposals that they think are too easy, that seems odd. If it is felt that the game currently allows KDs to offer war to KDs that are too much smaller than them, then why not change the rules on the war offer range? If it is felt that the war offer range is correct, then it seems harsh to say that a KD receiving an offer that is "too good to be true" shouldn't have accepted it.
    Just because a war is free, or easy, does not make it fake.
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  10. #25
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    " Your Kingdom was not allowed to engage in what could have easily been construed as a fake war and actually been punished for, which you should probably be thankful for"

    Are you S*^*ing me. War proposal sent had minutes to accept all armies where out from wave but though we could still win as nw was 2.1m vs 2.6 m.

    We were punished as another player has quit utopia for good because of admins actions. Then we wonder why we have so few players left playing Utopia

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somedude View Post
    " Your Kingdom was not allowed to engage in what could have easily been construed as a fake war and actually been punished for, which you should probably be thankful for"

    Are you S*^*ing me. War proposal sent had minutes to accept all armies where out from wave but though we could still win as nw was 2.1m vs 2.6 m.

    We were punished as another player has quit utopia for good because of admins actions. Then we wonder why we have so few players left playing Utopia
    Yes we should instead encourage cheating and let everyone benefit from the rewards of cheating. That really will make the game better..

  12. #27
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    ITT: Cheaters complaining about getting actioned and people looking for freebies not getting them.

    It's really simple:

    a) DON'T CHEAT.

    b) If it looks too good to be true, RUN.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by emerix View Post
    Thank you David for that lengthy explanation and insight.
    ....
    At least now, we have an explanation and I thank you again for it.
    important thing to note is u may not always get an explanation. But if you get kicked outa war for fake waring someone in the two kds are cheating...The hardest thing to face is that it could have been an honest naive mistake in your own kd, or a real player you trust lieing and breaking the rules. Thest best advise u can give to your players who want to leave if u hadn't gotten a response is "its just one war someone wast doing stupid ****, lets recoup and move on"

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystopher View Post
    ITT: Cheaters complaining about getting actioned and people looking for freebies not getting them.

    It's really simple:

    a) DON'T CHEAT.

    b) If it looks too good to be true, RUN.


    You are a big idiot if you believe that. For example my kingdom would have won any wars in our range, regardless of how the opponont looks. So that means we can't war at all when stupid ppl give buttons? its like honorcrowning101 to ghettowar.

    (yes apparantly last war it was a multi, but their monarch actually believed it was a idiot in their kd and admitted they would been roflstomped either way).
    Last edited by SnirpsneR; 21-11-2017 at 15:46.

  15. #30
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnirpsneR View Post
    You are a big idiot if you believe that. For example my kingdom would have won any wars in our range, regardless of how the opponont looks. So that means we can't war at all when stupid ppl give buttons?

    (yes apparantly last war it was a multi, but their monarch actually believed it was a idiot in their kd and admitted they would been roflstomped either way).

    If you follow his tips you dont run any risk of getting actioned at all. Thats his point I think.

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