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Thread: The Cavalier Club: A Discussion on Fair War Practice

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danjor View Post
    Question: Scenario: 2 KDs agree to a War Proposal at a set date, say 36 hours in the future, and KD A decides to Massacre the TMs from KD B, ~24hrs before the agreed time, before builds are changed. KD B sees this as a Deal Break, clearly taking advantage of knowing KD B's timeline, KD A has sabotaged their ability to be prepared for war. KD A proceeds to wave KD B at the agreed time, instead of sending war proposal. Is KD A acting shady and dishonorable?
    Yes

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danjor View Post
    Question: Scenario: 2 KDs agree to a War Proposal at a set date, say 36 hours in the future, and KD A decides to Massacre the TMs from KD B, ~24hrs before the agreed time, before builds are changed. KD B sees this as a Deal Break, clearly taking advantage of knowing KD B's timeline, KD A has sabotaged their ability to be prepared for war. KD A proceeds to wave KD B at the agreed time, instead of sending war proposal. Is KD A acting shady and dishonorable?
    Report them for unfair unkind dishonorable play!

    Delete delete delete!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danjor View Post
    Question: Scenario: 2 KDs agree to a War Proposal at a set date, say 36 hours in the future, and KD A decides to Massacre the TMs from KD B, ~24hrs before the agreed time, before builds are changed. KD B sees this as a Deal Break, clearly taking advantage of knowing KD B's timeline, KD A has sabotaged their ability to be prepared for war. KD A proceeds to wave KD B at the agreed time, instead of sending war proposal. Is KD A acting shady and dishonorable?
    It's a dealbreak but not cheating. What is being suggested in this thread is what terms for in war stance until it becomes considered abuse. Like you can't hit my faeries, you can't AW, no Massacres. Ect basically how far can you toe the line.

  4. #19
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    Thank you soo much for your question, @Danjor! Hopefully we will see some of the Utopian Lord's weigh in on the subject instead of the playerbase :D

    Keep them coming players! No such thing as a dumb question, the more examples we inquire about sooner gives our Devs more options to weigh in on! :D

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    It's a dealbreak but not cheating. What is being suggested in this thread is what terms for in war stance until it becomes considered abuse. Like you can't hit my faeries, you can't AW, no Massacres. Ect basically how far can you toe the line.
    Kd A says "hey message me on irc/slack/whatsapp to discuss diplomacy"

    Now prove that they agreed to not massacre/AW/whatever and that it wasn't just not included in their strategy.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
    Kd A says "hey message me on irc/slack/whatsapp to discuss diplomacy"

    Now prove that they agreed to not massacre/AW/whatever and that it wasn't just not included in their strategy.
    Ok guys, while I love a good debate as much as the next person, there are a lot of threads presently open for debate and opinions from the playerbase. The format and purpose of this thread is to ask questions and give examples from the players in the hopes the people who investigate and sanction bad play will give feedback.

    While it's perfectly allowed, as it's a public platform, I'm asking you nicely, as MC, to stick to the format. Two pages worth of posts and we have 3 questions.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
    Kd A says "hey message me on irc/slack/whatsapp to discuss diplomacy"

    Now prove that they agreed to not massacre/AW/whatever and that it wasn't just not included in their strategy.
    Agreed it does happen, but we have a vocal person in AOD starting a entire thread about how to scam the system. Also you should report if your kingdom does do this. I have already reported one kingdom who asked me for basically a fake war. Warring tier should remain clean and shun those who don't. I remember age 65 Spartans fake warred all age. So fake wars happen and it's obvious AOD participates in such things.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    Agreed it does happen, but we have a vocal person in AOD starting a entire thread about how to scam the system. Also you should report if your kingdom does do this. I have already reported one kingdom who asked me for basically a fake war. Warring tier should remain clean and shun those who don't. I remember age 65 Spartans fake warred all age. So fake wars happen and it's obvious AOD participates in such things.
    Last warning hun; if you don't understand the purpose of this thread, please dont post, quit grandstanding and insulting me.

    -DM <3
    Last edited by Zombies are people too; 21-11-2017 at 22:32.
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    Diplomacy has always been an important integral part of the game - it's not just about training large numbers of troops and sending your numbers against someone else's numbers. If that was the case, you might as well just be playing Clash of Clans.

    That said with diplomacy and cross-kd interactions also comes nuanced issues, and this thread is an excellent place to sort it out.

    To seek further clarification, would the following terms be within the rules?

    1) A 48 min-time war with agreement to MP if KD NW within 5% of each other, and lower KD w/d if more than 5% nw down.

    2) Agreement on no FB, Kidnap, Massacres on anyone under 500 peasants, no more trads on anyone land defense under 150 peasants.

    3) A message sent after 24 hours of war saying they plan on withdrawing at min-time, but if it would be possible to ease up on the chains and let deep-chained provinces a chance to recover so as to not enter EOWCF at 50 acres.

    4) A reply sent to the message in scenario no. 3, saying that they cannot agree to focus on any specific provinces or not focus on any specific provinces, but will agree to spread out the attacks rather than continue chaining, and to avoid hitting anyone under 250 acres. Net result being, however, that previously deep-chained provinces are no longer attacked.

    5) Min-time war, whereby each KD agrees to victory conditions that are achievable for either party and the winner or loser is not pre-ordained, and but one kingdom has just explored up a cow, with defensive values that are already, for all practical purposes, out of range for the other KD, and it is explicitly stated that one goal of the war is to protect the cow from random attacks until defense is fully built up. But, explicitly with no pre-determination of result, and no limits on any attacks or ops on any province.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies are people too View Post
    Last warning hun; if you don't understand the purpose of this thread, please dont post, quit grandstanding and insulting me.

    -DM <3
    I didn't know that you run this forum. I apologize if I insulted you but pointing out obvoius facts, isnt what i consider insults. But everyone is different after all. I suggest you stop posting things encouraging fake wars. Then I won't have to waste my time posting. It's a win win situation in that case. ;)

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    Yes illegal. Because what if I was setting up relative cows for my next war? This war is just to secure safe exploration which I might've done before declare. I'm now using the mechanics in a manner to abuse the advantages of war.

    I'm with Coldhearted with the exception that I'm warmhearted.

    Though, I don't mind a min-time acre, honor contest war. These are more like tournament wars than the butchery I'm use to.
    Just wanted to point out, as it stands, the rules don't really "protect" the bank in the sense that the bank cannot be attacked. Nothing against trads, conquests, raze-bounces, every other op and spell available. Just, clearly, a set of rules designed to ensure wizards aren't destroyed on either side (which, would not neccessarily be part of a fake war, but just a reflection of the fact that it can take 2 weeks, or 1/4 of the entire age to build up WPA again once destroyed, and more wars in general may occur, increasing overall activity in the game, if a KD can ensure that early wars aren't going to stop their KD from warring for half the age thereafter.

  12. #27
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    Thank you @changeling for these well thought out examples you want insight on! :D Hopefully the Utopian Lords will favour you with the answers!

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  13. #28
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    My thoughts form a rules perspective. I'm not saying i think these are a good idea or that I would agree, just whether I think they are allowed by the rules.

    Scenario 1: A Monarch looking to arrange a war with another, starts a correspondence regarding terms for the duration of the War. If this Monarch were to negotiate disallowing the attack Massacre and the rogue operation Assassinate Wizards for both KDs, being that the restrictions apply to both, would it be considered an infraction in the spirit of competition or considered an advantage that would dictate the outcome?
    --> Seems fine to me from a rules perspective in almost all cases. I accept the points by a few others above that conceivably this could be manipulating the war system for a later war, but it would taker a very specific scenario for that to be possible.

    Question: Scenario: 2 KDs agree to a War Proposal at a set date, say 36 hours in the future, and KD A decides to Massacre the TMs from KD B, ~24hrs before the agreed time, before builds are changed. KD B sees this as a Deal Break, clearly taking advantage of knowing KD B's timeline, KD A has sabotaged their ability to be prepared for war. KD A proceeds to wave KD B at the agreed time, instead of sending war proposal. Is KD A acting shady and dishonorable?
    -->KD A broke the deal by waving instead of proposing war. Unless the hypothesis is that they did propose war but KD B didn't accept it because they said KD A already deal broke. Then it comes down to whether the deal included that during the war prep period the KDs wouldn't attack each other. But in any case I don't think any of this is against the game rules.

    1) A 48 min-time war with agreement to MP if KD NW within 5% of each other, and lower KD w/d if more than 5% nw down.
    -->Seems fine.

    2) Agreement on no FB, Kidnap, Massacres on anyone under 500 peasants, no more trads on anyone land defense under 150 peasants.
    -->Mostly seems fine. No more trads on anyone on land def under 150 peasants might be a problem. I think you are assuming those provs are basically incapacitated, but it could theoretically be a huge prov that released its defence knowing that the war rules wouldn't allow the land to be taken... I think that would probably then be an issue :P If you add to it that the prov is under xx (small amount) of acres, I think it's okay.

    3) A message sent after 24 hours of war saying they plan on withdrawing at min-time, but if it would be possible to ease up on the chains and let deep-chained provinces a chance to recover so as to not enter EOWCF at 50 acres.
    -->I think this is tricky. I think it probably should be permitted provided that it is saying ease up on provs that have been hurt already. But I have no idea if the devs would agree.

    4) A reply sent to the message in scenario no. 3, saying that they cannot agree to focus on any specific provinces or not focus on any specific provinces, but will agree to spread out the attacks rather than continue chaining, and to avoid hitting anyone under 250 acres. Net result being, however, that previously deep-chained provinces are no longer attacked.
    -->If 3 is permitted then 4 should be. If 3 is not permitted, then 4 is tricky.

    5) Min-time war, whereby each KD agrees to victory conditions that are achievable for either party and the winner or loser is not pre-ordained, and but one kingdom has just explored up a cow, with defensive values that are already, for all practical purposes, out of range for the other KD, and it is explicitly stated that one goal of the war is to protect the cow from random attacks until defense is fully built up. But, explicitly with no pre-determination of result, and no limits on any attacks or ops on any province.
    -->Not sure what "explicitly stated" means. If that's internal to one KD, then they are entitled to want to have a real war for any reaosn they want. If it's stated to the other KD and war is agreed on that basis, I think that's a problem. The rest of this one seems fine to me.
    Last edited by Chris121; 21-11-2017 at 23:55.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    Agreed it does happen, but we have a vocal person in AOD starting a entire thread about how to scam the system. Also you should report if your kingdom does do this. I have already reported one kingdom who asked me for basically a fake war. Warring tier should remain clean and shun those who don't. I remember age 65 Spartans fake warred all age. So fake wars happen and it's obvious AOD participates in such things.
    Yeah I suppose you could report it and the admins can keep tabs on the KD, but they can't really take action based on external logs unless they are actually in the chat to verify it's authenticity.

    Hahaha so the OP is in AOD and is asking for everyone to list a bunch of shady tactics? That's gold.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
    Yeah I suppose you could report it and the admins can keep tabs on the KD, but they can't really take action based on external logs unless they are actually in the chat to verify it's authenticity.

    Hahaha so the OP is in AOD and is asking for everyone to list a bunch of shady tactics? That's gold.
    Pure comedy gold, agreed.Would make a cat laugh.

    Diamonds has learnt to keep his arrangements done via sap or other platform.

    Now he's trying to find out exactly what the parameters are to make sure he and his alliance drones don't get deleted again. And Zombie is trying to make it an 'thought experiment', probably in a quest to rehabilitate the cheat. She is clearly super close to him, as soon as I posted about Dirty Diamonds in the other thread he popped up like a little gnome to do his snake oil salesman stuff. Clearly Zombie had immediately pinged him.

    I do have a genuine question for the mods re fake war as it happens:

    If an alliance leader and monarch is deleted for a cheating FW, is he allowed to be invited back into the kingdom he was deleted from so he can start again? And if so, do the devs keep a particular eye on provinces joining said kingdoms? :)

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