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Thread: Thieves Dens vs Wt

  1. #1
    Post Fiend Stingaaaa's Avatar
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    Thieves Dens vs Wt

    Okay so its not really an argument for and against.

    Say we have someone running 6rtpa and want to stop ops i would automaticaly think WT, however another person suggested that the mod tpa from Dens increases your thieves effectiveness in defence too.

    I know the benefits of having Dens offensively, just didnt consider there might be defensive benefits from them too.

    anybody like to weigh in on the dilemma?

    Race/pers in question
    Elf/Mystic
    Mage and some thievery.

    Thanks.
    "Inspecting mirrors is a job that I could really see myself doing."

    #BloodyMess

  2. #2
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    Depends what you want to block. Robbery is pretty damn effective at 1-1.5x mtpa so you're not going to be able to prevent it unless you run higher mtpa than the thieves. NS is 2x so you could probably block with ~75% of their mtpa. AW/prop tier is liek 3x+ for decent success so lets say you can block decently with 50% of their mtpa.

  3. #3
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    Keep in mind that WT reduces damage also. As an attacking race WT + CS is your best bet, as a mystic you might be ok running 5-6 raw tpa with TDs depending on your thievery science.

  4. #4
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    A little math at 6 tpa for both a rogue and mystic, 20% tds for mystic at 100% BE, max td effect for the rogue and 30 profs in crime for both(I know honor also gives a lot I'm ignoring it, also I ignore invis because only bocan/faery have it).

    6 * 1.48 * 2 = 17.76

    6 * 1.75 * 2.75 = 28.875

    Now tds can be Ga-ed pretty easy and fast leaving you with 12 mod tpa. I don't think the 5-6 mod tpa that you get from the tds is worth having it for def. The truth is if a rogue wants to do something to you he will do it no matter what you have tds or wts(with wts will take a little more ops). However tds will make you stronger in offensive ops where wts will protect you from other mystics/hybrids.
    Last edited by Bo To; 30-11-2017 at 18:50.

  5. #5
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    The real answer is run both. # coldsolvesanotherone

  6. #6
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    I agree with Coldhearted - why is it a choice?

    If it really has to be a choice, then you need to look overall. Your specific question is which is better for defence, and the answer to that is probably WT (although it will depend what tpa the person who you are defending from has). But TD have offensive benefits too, so they might be better overall. In reality I would have both if I had elf mystic with 6 rtpa.

  7. #7
    Post Fiend bdbcoyote's Avatar
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    How are you running 6rtpa? I am not running an elf mystic but a dark elf mystic. Only getting up to 4rtpa while maintaining 12 epa and 4 ospa and 5rwpa. I'm not maxed in pop science yet either. But typically I try and get up to 6 ospa in war to attack more. If I played more defensively that could be an option, but the income on dark elves suck to maintain large armies on low ppa.
    Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. -George S. Patton

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdbcoyote View Post
    How are you running 6rtpa? I am not running an elf mystic but a dark elf mystic. Only getting up to 4rtpa while maintaining 12 epa and 4 ospa and 5rwpa. I'm not maxed in pop science yet either. But typically I try and get up to 6 ospa in war to attack more. If I played more defensively that could be an option, but the income on dark elves suck to maintain large armies on low ppa.
    Go less off focused...and pump harder. try pumping on 50% homes, then swap down to 30% once trained. at 30% homes we can compare feary v elf for example and u'll get a 1100 acre elf has the nearly the same numbers of wpa/tpa/def and total nw as a 1000 acre feary. So the advantage of elf would be High wpa 'faster' since u need less "Raw" wpa. I'd go 50% homes to get 30*1.15*1.02=35.19 ....6 tpa 6 wpa 3 epa. Then train as much def as u can to say 12.5 dspec 7.69 ppa. Very reasonable to train to. then swap down to 20% homes and u lose 3*1.15*1.02=3.519 ppa, and boom your on like 4 ppa and insanely trained.

    at 6 raw tpa, u should be able to sustain yoru military stealing till war, and enter war down to maybe 5.5 raw tpa+low ppa
    Last edited by Persain; 04-12-2017 at 06:09.

  9. #9
    Newbie Maguirezz's Avatar
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    Specifically for Elf Mystic heavy as mage, the risk of being AWed until you become useless in war is so great that WT is a must. However I agree having both WT and TD is better in most situation as you are less prone to Arson and become more useful with some offensive thievery.

  10. #10
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    Depends on your raw tpa.

  11. #11
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    On someone with 6 raw, I'd run dens and I'd also make sure they had good thievery science. They can then use their thieves offensively as well as defensively. If they are an obvious rogue target, you might want to try and go even a bit higher raw, especially if they don't have cs.

  12. #12
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    If you are facing rogues and expect to get targeted, use both. You can't protect yourself from a dedicated group of rogues, but if you make them work for it, it will at least slow them down.

  13. #13
    Post Fiend Stingaaaa's Avatar
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    Uses a ton of space but running 30% WT does around teh same effect as CS except uses building space haha!

    Think theyre running on average 6-7rtpa and 100%crime sci too now.

    wont stop a bocan but should make him work for it. Thanks for everyones input :)
    Actually thats a lie, Our bocans get insane results :)
    "Inspecting mirrors is a job that I could really see myself doing."

    #BloodyMess

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