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Thread: Rule Clarification

  1. #121
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    The alternate side of attracting cheaters is it results in relative abandonment of legitimate players, like myself.
    The difference is that I'm a mature pragmatist who recognizes cheaters as an added challenge or obstacle to improve my playing. Many people when younger are more idealistic and prone to act upon their beliefs without hesitation.

    My assessment is that cheating strangled the game and the social experiment it was intended to be. Obviously I'm attracted to the framework in its ruin. I'm a prolific traveler in the game and random around regularly. The game is in the saturated stage of many kingdoms becoming astonishingly similar in tactics and practices. Cheating has probably resulted in what can best be described as cultural inbreeding. The mutations are repeated over and over and this is what is different from traveling/kingdom hopping ages ago.

    I'm not against Bart. I'm of the understanding he's moved on, but enjoyed interacting with him while he was here. Perhaps Steel is right but not in the context of success: It resulted in what we know. But like many things efficient they can have unintended circumstances. We have to approach cheating as devolving into animal law because that is what we're talking about: birds of a feather in a game designed for cultural enlightenment. The bullying pattern themselves after the unevolving prey-predator dichotomy. Do you understand how cheating undermines culture? It's illustrated in The 10 Commandments: an alliance called Absalom is likely aware that the essence of culture is rooted in the premise of mutual respect. When we forgo these basic patterns of culture we often experience decay. It's not a religious thing, it's a primer for how civilizations progress.

    Another thing about Palem and TFC, we were not offered wars on even ground. If anything drives me it's to war "up". I'm not just referring to the stance of war, I mean the conflict in facing real threats where everyone is breakable on our side.
    Imagine if you will big orcs hitting down and you're a faery. To say that the lessons learned in TFC were valuable is an understatement. Perhaps recruiters and even TFC players themselves don't know why they were top material.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 09-12-2017 at 19:34.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  2. #122
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    I see a lot of multies mid-range warring. It's less internally controlled than in the top. I suppose the anonymity and apathy combined lead to looser moral standards, also the leaders are not strong/knowledgeable enough to weed it out themselves. You have people who never communicate or straight up refuse to join whatever chat room being used by the kingdom. Those tend to get deleted in my experience. Makes me wonder how many of the 3364 provinces are distinct players.

    Might not be a terrible idea to have paid multies is all I'm saying. Sure it has a pay-to-win element to it, which from a purely pragmatical standpoint doesn't have to be a bad thing either.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by sl0hnd View Post
    No your post IS a personal attack, obfuscation. You Quote him by NAME.

    The diff is Palm did not report you. I get it now. TQ Mati for showing me logic.
    So actionable offenses are more like a mad scrum for a fumble in football. I can live with that.

    TWEET, personal foul sl0hnd, 15 yards and loss of 1 point.

    Freakin hades froze. I too like prov sitting.

    PPL xcogginr and playing multi accounts is OK by me, err I mean bad, BAD
    Yes, I quote him... To discuss the impact of his presence and actions on the community. Saying 'Bart did more good than palem' can't be construed as a personal insult.

    It might be easier to respond to your posts if you changed translation services.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    The alternate side of attracting cheaters is it results in relative abandonment of legitimate players, like myself.
    The difference is that I'm a mature pragmatist who recognizes cheaters as an added challenge or obstacle to improve my playing. Many people when younger are more idealistic and prone to act upon their beliefs without hesitation.

    My assessment is that cheating strangled the game and the social experiment it was intended to be. Obviously I'm attracted to the framework in its ruin. I'm a prolific traveler in the game and random around regularly. The game is in the saturated stage of many kingdoms becoming astonishingly similar in tactics and practices. Cheating has probably resulted in what can best be described as cultural inbreeding. The mutations are repeated over and over and this is what is different from traveling/kingdom hopping ages ago.

    I'm not against Bart. I'm of the understanding he's moved on, but enjoyed interacting with him while he was here. Perhaps Steel is right but not in the context of success: It resulted in what we know. But like many things efficient they can have unintended circumstances. We have to approach cheating as devolving into animal law because that is what we're talking about: birds of a feather in a game designed for cultural enlightenment. The bullying pattern themselves after the unevolving prey-predator dichotomy. Do you understand how cheating undermines culture? It's illustrated in The 10 Commandments: an alliance called Absalom is likely aware that the essence of culture is rooted in the premise of mutual respect. When we forgo these basic patterns of culture we often experience decay. It's not a religious thing, it's a primer for how civilizations progress.

    Another thing about Palem and TFC, we were not offered wars on even ground. If anything drives me it's to war "up". I'm not just referring to the stance of war, I mean the conflict in facing real threats where everyone is breakable on our side.
    Imagine if you will big orcs hitting down and you're a faery. To say that the lessons learned in TFC were valuable is an understatement. Perhaps recruiters and even TFC players themselves don't know why they were top material.
    Mehul's core experiment failed, he recognized that after the forced shuffle. That's why there was never another one. And why trading was legalized by OMAC. The community held extensive talks on the topic. VT2 and Catwalk were particularly opposed iirc.

    I dont think that cheating ever strangled anything. The game had more cheating ten years ago, and more ghetto players and kingdoms and alliances.

    In 2007 you had almost 50 ghettos in just three alliances... Those were real people in those **** Kingdom.

    Talk of bullying is delusional. It doesn't exist in Utopia. The closest you get to it is when you find a trash kingdom that's going to hit you for 3+ days for a retal. And those are not 'top' kingdoms or forum personalities, like you are always decrying as evil game ruining individuals.

    You, referring collectively to the less-than-informed masses.

    <Edited - Reason: Inappropriate Language>
    Last edited by Allanon; 09-12-2017 at 20:10.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    Saying he's less valuable to the community isn't a personal attack, it's an evaluation of his material contribution to the community, and has nothing to do with him personally.
    Obfuscation, its a personal insult "opinion" of a proven known user.

    Just as my original post was an "opinion" of you.
    Last edited by sl0hnd; 09-12-2017 at 20:24. Reason: Voldebart
    if its in the game... I like Bishop. I don't care what my Mommy says about him.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by sl0hnd View Post
    Obfuscation, its a personal insult "opinion" of a proven known user.

    Just as my post was an "opinion" of you.
    The two statements are not equatable, and the only obfuscation in the thread comes in the form of your post style.

  7. #127
    Post Fiend sl0hnd's Avatar
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    Obfuscation again. Your statement that my 2 post are not equal has no logic. It is only your opinion.
    Obfuscation also with your opinion of my "style"?

    The ONLY difference between our 2 original post is Palm did not report you.

    That appears to be one of the main answers to Rule Clarification
    Last edited by sl0hnd; 09-12-2017 at 21:27. Reason: Voldebart
    if its in the game... I like Bishop. I don't care what my Mommy says about him.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by sl0hnd View Post
    Obfuscation again. Your statement that my 2 post are not equal has no logic. It is only your opinion.
    Obfuscation also with your opinion of my "style"?

    The ONLY difference between our 2 original post is Palm did not report you.
    Youre making the claim, substantiate it. Explain why my post was a personal insult. Otherwise, saying Bart has been more active in Utopia than Palem, and thus contributed more, is not an insult.

    It is a conclusion I've drawn from their game presence and individual actions over the last ~2 years I've known that Bart has existed. Palem or you or anyone else can contend that I'm wrong, but not that it's an insult. Unless of course we've decided that Bart is literally Hitler or something.

    Next, I did jab at Palem's tswift obsession. Which again, not an insult, he posts something like 20 images of her a week, more or less alone in that behavior (and certainly alone in volume). That's one of his contributions, sure, and I rank it extremely low. Negative points, even, if I were to actually score Bart and Palem.

    You, on the other hand, said I am negative, which bears connotations with it thay may cloud peoples judgments of me or my posts. What's more, you ascribed all my being, past and present, to sheer negativity. That is definitely a personal insult.

    Your posts are, overall, poorly written. They don't feature proper spelling, or grammar, or syntax. Whats more, they hardly make sense logically : I never said your two posts were not equal. I said my statements regarding Palem are not equatable to your comments regarding me. I've. Explained why above.

    I'll have to report you for spam if you can't start posting something substantive.. You're repeating yourself. Three times now. And rather than get into a bit of exposition, you're posts are shortening. Obfuscation, as you try to derail the thread? Incite me to break rules? Who knows. But clearly your posts violate DavidC's earlier warning in this thread that posts must contribute.

    Reported.
    Last edited by Pillz; 09-12-2017 at 22:11.

  9. #129
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    Someone stop this, poor sl0hnd is getting all kinds of destroyed.

    Lock the thread or something.
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  10. #130
    Post Fiend sl0hnd's Avatar
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    @Pills Bart's been a more valuable member of the community than you have over the last several years.

    How am I being destroyed? I have supported every opinion I made.
    Saying Palm is less valuable to our community than a known permaban cheater is an insult opinion.
    I only did not repost the same insult err opinion ad nauseam, talk about spam...

    @Mati U R only being mean cause U R a fiend of Barts. I get that.

    You should stop insulting users with English as second language also.
    Last edited by sl0hnd; 09-12-2017 at 22:21. Reason: and I like Voldebart
    if its in the game... I like Bishop. I don't care what my Mommy says about him.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by sl0hnd View Post
    @Pills Bart's been a more valuable member of the community than you have over the last several years.

    How am I being destroyed? I have supported evry opinion I made.
    I only did not repost the same insult err opinion ad nauseam
    How is that an insult? It's an evaluation of worth. I didn't simultaneously declare Palem be worthless or anything. Just that one of them gave more to Utopia in the last two years than the other.

    You are reposting the same bull**** though, accusing me of obfuscation three times in a row. You've also failed to support anything... I mean, am I missing paragraphs or something in your posts? You just repeat the same statement or variations there of.

  12. #132
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    I promise to only insult native speakers from now on.

    btw I'm not sure if I'm a friend of Bart's, he sort of abandoned this game, didn't he? With that he also abandoned me - we do keep in touch but it's too sporadic that I'd call it a friendship. I don't even know if he's still playing or what's going on, just know he's happy at his new job and I'm glad he's moved on if he has hah.
    Last edited by MyNameIsMatija; 09-12-2017 at 22:33.
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by sl0hnd View Post
    @Pills Bart's been a more valuable member of the community than you have over the last several years.

    How am I being destroyed? I have supported every opinion I made.
    Saying Palm is less valuable to our community than a known permaban cheater is an insult opinion.
    I only did not repost the same insult err opinion ad nauseam, talk about spam...

    @Mati U R only being mean cause U R a fiend of Barts. I get that.

    You should stop insulting users with English as second language also.
    Bart's 'legal' status as it were doesn't weigh on the comparison, though. It isn't a comparison of who followed the rules, it about who contributed most. Not an insult, unless you bend it into such. Since Palem bans me for saying '**** off', I'm sure if he felt insulted or felt it was intended as such, he'd have taken whatever action his Jackboots felt like taking.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    Evading bans is not acceptable, this is not a hard case.
    If you are banned from the Forums, there is a reason for it and therefore your comments on the Forums are unwanted.

    I'm also somewhat confused about why people think we 'hate' Bart. I don't hate him. He's been banned for good reason, not because of any other reason than the reasons stated very clearly in the thread that outlined what he did and why it was wrong. The policy update to include specific language detailing that posting on behalf of banned users is not allowed was to specify just that, not some backdoor way of keeping out a single user. It was not specifically stated previously and needed to be; there is no undertone or secret meaning for it. The policy is straight-forward and direct (and reasonable!).
    Of course cheating is not OK. I can't remember what the fuss was all about now and I can't be bothered to go look it up. However your freakish rush to institute a new rule is ofc aimed at one ex forum user, considering it has never been in existence before. And you have not, I noticed, addressed the points I raised - possibly because you see that there isn't a simple answer, so prefer to ignore them? IMO it's hardly an answer in response to my points to say that your policy is straightforward direct and reasonable.

    The only saving grace is that these forums are very nearly dead now anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter what you do.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    Mehul's core experiment failed, he recognized that after the forced shuffle. That's why there was never another one. And why trading was legalized by OMAC. The community held extensive talks on the topic. VT2 and Catwalk were particularly opposed iirc.

    I dont think that cheating ever strangled anything. The game had more cheating ten years ago, and more ghetto players and kingdoms and alliances.

    In 2007 you had almost 50 ghettos in just three alliances... Those were real people in those **** Kingdom.

    Talk of bullying is delusional. It doesn't exist in Utopia. The closest you get to it is when you find a trash kingdom that's going to hit you for 3+ days for a retal. And those are not 'top' kingdoms or forum personalities, like you are always decrying as evil game ruining individuals.

    You, referring collectively to the less-than-informed masses.

    <Edited - Reason: Inappropriate Language>
    Bullying does exist but my impression is we're debating semantics. People tend to deflect things as better ways than dealing with a problem. We aren't so far away in our assessment of the game as some might believe. I'm willing to listen as you apparently are.

    Mehuls failure wasn't the failure of an idea. There's no failure as it were, just data that suggests we as a community act in ways that subvert culture more than we build. Even if Mehul doubted himself or changed his objectives to "gaming" the results are here before us. I've no faith in institutions. Great ideas can come from the most evil, so we have to learn about compartmentalizing.

    That a lot of guys enjoyed deep competition isn't lost on me. But look at them now. Where are they? Look at the top. It's more an aftermath than a gleaming example of the past. I've often said that the game can survive to the point where nostalgia creeps in on old players. It requires nurturing, not neglect.

    Players that despise the efforts of those who try; they're like victims of abuse. Burning everything either because glory has passed them or old wounds nag at them. The new devs may've been contributors to the downfall of the game, but my faith lies in their recognition of the innate beauty of the game. Nobody needs to apologize for anything, but the time has come for players to recognize the long term effect of channeling poor behavior over stewardship. My respect for the devs doesn't come from expectation, but simply that they endeavor to lift Utopia from certain death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
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    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

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