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Thread: Just your typical bullies of Utopia

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrock UA View Post
    Sender Lord KingSlayer XIII the Hero of Casterly Rock (6:18)
    Recipient Lord Quatre Raberba WInner the Sorcerer of Sandrock UA (2:20)
    Subject Why you no cf?
    Okay, from this point on I think that we have been very respectful. We are not bullies nor do we try to be, all we ask is for a ceasefire so that we can move on. We understand that some of you are new to this game and we understand that some of you don't know the politics. We did not bring this upon you, your King has made this decision. Again all we asked was for a ceasefire. This is a game where if you have open hostilities with another kingdom you can't just move on. So I ask again in the next few ticks make the right decision before we have to make it for you. You have until May 11th.

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    We asked them to respect the war (edit: with a different kingdom) when we entered it. They responded with attacks. They've been attacking into it since it started. Honestly, they don't deserve a CF at this point.
    If you are looking for advice... as a monarch myself, I can tell you, it does not matter who is in the wrong. It does matter who is in the power position. In the current circumstance, they are. So it is to your kingdom's benefit to swallow your pride and accept their CF especially if it is a simple CF and they aren't making any further demands. Cut your losses and focus on your current objective, your war. One thing kingdoms like these fail to realize is that the age is 10-15 weeks long, acting poorly this early can result in consequences later. You can choose to be those consequences, you simply need to bide your time. This is a strategy game first and foremost. Do not let your ego get in the way. Sometimes you have to retreat from a battle to win a war.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selephant View Post
    If you are looking for advice... as a monarch myself, I can tell you, it does not matter who is in the wrong. It does matter who is in the power position. In the current circumstance, they are. So it is to your kingdom's benefit to swallow your pride and accept their CF especially if it is a simple CF and they aren't making any further demands. Cut your losses and focus on your current objective, your war. One thing kingdoms like these fail to realize is that the age is 10-15 weeks long, acting poorly this early can result in consequences later. You can choose to be those consequences, you simply need to bide your time. This is a strategy game first and foremost. Do not let your ego get in the way. Sometimes you have to retreat from a battle to win a war.
    I would never chase after a CF for a kingdom that escaped a wave by going into a war. While they are in war, you have 6 days (2 day min war +4 days of pumping) to find a war yourself or solidify your position to handle them when they exit. If you can't do that, you shouldn't have put yourself in that situation. Poor diplomacy skills is no reason to attack into a war, and attacking into the war is perhaps the one last unforgivable action left in this game. (in my opinion) There is only one thing that would make me attack into a war, no matter how rude/childish another kingdom is acting, and that is attacking into my war. Anything else, and I'll wait until we are both out of war ;)

  3. #18
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    Last edited by sl0hnd; 12-12-2017 at 22:49.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sl0hnd View Post
    Its never OK to hit into anothers war
    Unless they are in eowcf and some nub hits out first

    I think this is the ONLY unwritten rule in Utopia.
    The entire server of unoccupied KD should attack the offenders
    It's not and never has been a rule..
    Emeriti hit into CR's war 3 ages ago... Nobody did ****.
    Ovenmitt & Mike been razing into wars for 2-3 weeks, ain't nobody done ****.

    Hell, half the server once razed into ED & Playboys eoa war to try to prevent ED from taking the honor crown. To this day pbs contend it was a real war and not an honor farm out.

    Neither ED nor Pbs took issue with anyone the next age that I recall..

    War isn't protection from outside hits, and Utopia has no unwritten rules. Everything always goes if you can get away with it. Always has.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    It's not and never has been a rule..
    Emeriti hit into CR's war 3 ages ago... Nobody did ****.
    Ovenmitt & Mike been razing into wars for 2-3 weeks, ain't nobody done ****.

    Hell, half the server once razed into ED & Playboys eoa war to try to prevent ED from taking the honor crown. To this day pbs contend it was a real war and not an honor farm out.

    Neither ED nor Pbs took issue with anyone the next age that I recall..

    War isn't protection from outside hits, and Utopia has no unwritten rules. Everything always goes if you can get away with it. Always has.
    In your view, should war have/involve any protection from outside hits?
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  6. #21
    Forum Fanatic Pillz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calya View Post
    In your view, should war have/involve any protection from outside hits?
    Not beyond what exists. And I strongly disagree with the increased inaccuracy of oow intel.

  7. #22
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    Last edited by sl0hnd; 12-12-2017 at 22:50.
    if its in the game... I like Bishop. I don't care what my Mommy says about him.

  8. #23
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    @sl0hnd: If you caveated your points by saying unprovoked hits into war are bad manners etc, then I would agree. A decent amount of players believing the same plus the mechanics of lower gains is why it doesn't happen in every war.

    But I certainly wouldn't agree that it is "never" okay to hit into war. I could come up with examples where I think that is definitely okay. The situation in this thread seems to be somewhere in between two extremes - both KDs could have handled it better (because it is not optimal for either KD to have this issue).

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    It's not and never has been a rule..
    Emeriti hit into CR's war 3 ages ago... Nobody did ****.
    Ovenmitt & Mike been razing into wars for 2-3 weeks, ain't nobody done ****.

    Hell, half the server once razed into ED & Playboys eoa war to try to prevent ED from taking the honor crown. To this day pbs contend it was a real war and not an honor farm out.

    Neither ED nor Pbs took issue with anyone the next age that I recall..

    War isn't protection from outside hits, and Utopia has no unwritten rules. Everything always goes if you can get away with it. Always has.
    Ofc it has, just cause you show a bunch of isolated happenings, 3 out of how many years utopia existed? If its not a unwritten rule, why doesnt it happend in every war? Whats stopping anyone? Cause people most often agree that a war should be 1vs1. If there was no unwritten rules like 1 vs 1 wars, 1 vs 1 hostiles, there would be no dramas cause evrything would be okey.

  10. #25
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    It's an interesting scenario.
    Devolorian waved us, and I happened to catch it early. I messaged the monarch after a dragon start and four attacks. I said we would not go to war - the difference was just under 20% from our point of view, but 15% from theirs. That was just after they were unfriendly. We had another war offer, but I did not mention it.
    Over the next 24 hours I looked for the Monarch or Steward but neither were online. I did not want to leave an open-ended CF offer. We did not retaliate, even with ops as far as I know.
    War started with our opponent. Within 8 hours I started getting angry messages from 6:18, saying that 'running to war was cowardice' and that they would not stop the onslaught.
    I used to feel that war was sacrosanct.

    The Wiki is quite clear - war "annuls" all other relations.
    But in reality war only nullifies other relations for the period of the war.
    Is the wiki wrong, or is there a glitch in the game which needs fixing?

    Aside from the rules of the game, I think 6:18 should wait out the war before using hostilities to enforce the CF, if it really is that big a deal. Remember, WE HAVE NOT ATTACKED nor opped them, at all.
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  11. #26
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    @Puck: If you sent messages to their monarch/steward asking to CF and they didn't respond, then it brings me more onto your side. I understand not offering an open ended CF. That doesn't exactly fit with the first message in this thread though: "all we ask is for a ceasefire so that we can move on", but perhaps they are not being entirely honest in their message.

    War does indeed nullify relations for the period of the war. If a KD is very hostile with you when you go to war, they will still be hostile with you after. That's why they can't sensibly leave open relations because if you do well, or even just alright, in your war, you get a 4 day EoW CF to pump and could then declare on 6:18.
    Last edited by Chris121; 10-12-2017 at 12:14.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Ofc it has, just cause you show a bunch of isolated happenings, 3 out of how many years utopia existed? If its not a unwritten rule, why doesnt it happend in every war? Whats stopping anyone? Cause people most often agree that a war should be 1vs1. If there was no unwritten rules like 1 vs 1 wars, 1 vs 1 hostiles, there would be no dramas cause evrything would be okey.
    it doesnt happen in every war if because you dont gain **** form it, if you gained same as a normal trad hit it would happend more often.

  13. #28
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    Well, going by our KD's experience with 2:20 earlier this age, 2:20 monarch doesn't respond to CF diplomacy talks. We ended up having 2 way hostile with 2:20 playing the meter game even though they were bigger than us and in a position of strength. Ultimately 2:20 ran away from our hostility by going into war with another KD. No communication from 2:20 monarch to our messages while hostilities were going on. They ended up wasting our time for 4 days before they ran away into war.

    The only difference is that we chose not to enforce our hand by razing into their war to get a CF unlike what 6:18 is doing.

    My point is, before people judge 6:18, they need to know the full story. We only know 2:20's side so far. What is 6:18's side of the story?

  14. #29
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    Lack of communication doesn't both me. We've seen many encounters where one or both sides simply break off their attacks. @ Shrinky: you did things the right way.

    So while one might see attacking into war as justified, the right way is to respect the war. My understanding of mechanics means that the kingdom going to war is at a remarkable disadvantage.

    Thus, we should consider the idea that kingdom aren't running to war. They're not running away from you, they have planned wars. This happens to us all the time. I'd never run from any kingdom no matter who, but I'm not in charge. We respect our war itinerary.

    But I've mentioned it here and I'll say it again; best practices are when engaged by some kingdom trying to suck you dry while in war prep deserve your undivided attention. Your war partner should be informed of delays when you first get to talking war, so there's no misunderstandings.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    it doesnt happen in every war if because you dont gain **** form it, if you gained same as a normal trad hit it would happend more often.
    But having a extra kingdom hitting your enemy would make you win the war easier! So..

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