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Thread: Just your typical bullies of Utopia

  1. #46
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    There is no auto-cf.

    Any use of the oow surrender function in-game is dependent on 4 factors:

    1. The two kingdoms cannot be in range of warring one another (First strike against your plan)
    2. The two kingdoms must be at 100 points variance (Will you have the activity to maintain this in the face of daily meter decay when it approaches that point?)
    3. The surrendering kingdom cannot have made a hit in the previous 12 hours (this one at least they have likely met)
    4. The surrendering kingdom actively has to use the Surrender option (it's not automatic, it's a choice they need to make)

    As you can see, your plan to rely on the surrender mechanic is flawed on at least two of the 4 points. Time for a new plan?
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  2. #47
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    We are open to suggestions we don't want to keep hitting these dude's were not just hitting them just to hit them we want to move on we just want a cf
    Last edited by KevDash; 11-12-2017 at 07:05.

  3. #48
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    1. We are out of range now. (159% currently)
    2. That's only 9 attacks a day...
    3. You're correct.
    4. We realize this, but hope it will open their monarch's eyes when he's to the point he has the surrender button available. One can dream.

    They're getting stomped in their fake war, but if they actually turned it into a win they could easily outstrip us and retaliate before they lost the button (especially if they were able to conspire with their war opponent like the king is apparently attempting). We're in a position where we would have to sit on our hands for a week before we dropped hostile, or trust him not to press it and catch us with our pants down later. What would you recommend we do?

  4. #49
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    Apologies on point 1. Haven't looked recently, was just going on the NWs given in the thread. And 9 attacks a day is still not a given for some less organised kds.

    Your plan also leaves you vulnerable to outside kds that aren't necessarily going to have read this thread, instead just seeing an easy wave on a kd that apparently has its armies out against a kd that isn't going to/can't fight back. Even by my fairly old-school position on hostiles, that would be a legit move.

    As for what you should do... well, you've kinda made your beds at this point. The other kd is obviously not going to use the cf you've offered any time soon, yet you have continued to up the meter by hitting into the war. You can either move on, attempt to grow enough that even if they win they won't have an advantage, and then continue after the war, or you can continue to waste troops and resources hitting into a war in the knowledge you're leaving yourself exposed to many other fronts.

    What I would do in your shoes given the situation would be to attempt some proper diplomacy rather than threatening them, and ask them what it would take to get them to accept the cf and negotiate from there from a position of strength.

    Also, if you believe the opposing kingdom is breaking the rules by conspiring to throw the war in return for outside help, I would strongly suggest you report your suspicions, along with any evidence, to utopiasupport@utopia-game.com, and the devs will investigate further and if necessary, action the appropriate parties.
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  5. #50
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    Thanks for giving the other side 6:18. Based on the new information I think your position is reasonable and I am not sure why 2:20 is complaining. It seems clear that 2:20's monarch didn't understand the game mechanics and thought relations actually went away permanently with war, hence didn't see any purpose in CFing (or wanted to pretend that was the case, at least - it's getting hard to know which bits are misrepresentations at this point).

    My only additional suggestion would be write an unemotional message setting out what has happened and the current position (ie explain why you need a CF etc) and send it to all of 2:20 suggesting they encourage their monarch to accept the CF or offer their own one, or elect a new monarch to do so. If you think their war is braking the rules, I would report them.

    @2:20 - I'm open to hearing if what 6:18 just said misrepresented the situation somehow. But if not it's a shame that you came to the forum complaining and then misrepresented the situation.

  6. #51
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    I'm in 220 and would just like to say that I have never noticed anything fishy about our current war. As far as I'm aware there is no evidence other than the personal message of a disgruntled player who disagreed with our king on current war status, then threatened to leave, king said if you must, then he says he'll stay to help until war concludes, meanwhile sends this wild story to 618 monarch.

    As far as the ceasefire issue, we decided to war another kd. We had a choice and we picked the other kd. Tough luck that happens to us all the time with our desired targets. The core of our kd has now soured to the option of offering a cf out of principal. Ppl generally are not appreciative of the other monarch sending out nonsensical threats over personal mails. We are just some casual dudes trying to enjoy the game.

  7. #52
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Seems like a situation that would been easily avoided by 6:18 if they would just let them be, the meter would have decayed and problem solved. Instead of doing that they give more points to the meter and forcing them what they believed being the right path hitting into war.

  8. #53
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    It might be commonplace in the top 30 to diplo through CF, but in the lower tier most CFs, non-CFs and simply ignoring the meter is commonplace. This is why I'm inclined to appreciate 2:20s position over 6:18.

    The manner of hitting into wars because of the meter isn't something that you see in the lower rankings unless it's retirement FSU kingdoms. I could name those on 2 fingers. It's not that I don't see 6:18s point but that it's nearly irrelevant where they're playing.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    It's not that I don't see 6:18s point but that it's nearly irrelevant where they're playing.
    I'm not sure I follow this part of your logic. I would accept your starting point that it is common to ignore the meter in parts of the lower tier (I'm not sure I would say from 31 down but let's skip that point for now), but I'm not sure how it follows to say that 6:18's point is irrelevant. ie, just because other KDs take the risk that a KD will delcare on them later, doesn't mean 6:18 should do so.

    WE're not talking complicated diplomacy here - just 2 KDs that should have agreed a CF far earlier to suit both of their interests.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Seems like a situation that would been easily avoided by 6:18 if they would just let them be, the meter would have decayed and problem solved.
    This may be a fair point too. I'm not sure we have been given enough information to know what the meter was at the point where 6:18 monarch / steward saw the message from 2:20 saying they wouldn't war and/or the point where 2:20 went into another war.

  11. #56
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    A point everyone seems to forget is that 6:18 when I had dealings with them a few years back, and also in this case it sounds like, are so afraid to lose wars that they wave way smaller kingdoms. I'd go so far as to call it cyber bullying since they went after my old kingdom like 4 ages in a row like this and they'll continue to hit even if you are fast to tell them you don't want war or offer a blank cf. They'll even break cf's to come at you again if they feel you are getting to close for comford so you can't really trust them either. Same team, same monarch and steward. There is no way this undermanned 2,6 million nw kingdom can come after a kingdom at 4,2 million nw, and hitting into their wars speaks more about the agressor than the defender.

  12. #57
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    This may be a fair point too. I'm not sure we have been given enough information to know what the meter was at the point where 6:18 monarch / steward saw the message from 2:20 saying they wouldn't war and/or the point where 2:20 went into another war.
    From what we can tell there have been no/barely no attacks from 2:20 against 6:18 judging from posts from both 2:20 and 6:18. I assume just that since its a ghetto world they live in they believe that they can get away with more crap than usually. This kind of behaviour would rarely happen in the upper echelons cause everyone realize its just a waste of time. They would just CF and move on. I have notice this on several ocassions as playing in a tiny ghetto kingdom this age that is always the bigger aggressor that wants the smaller one to send a CF. Like they want to decide when enough is enough. If it was in 6:18 interest they should have sent a CF early on and moved on and they actually might have gotten at least 1 war this age. Now they just have been wasting time digging themselves into a position where they have to waste more and more time. Also create more bad will against them.

  13. #58
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    I'm missing something I think: what were relations between the two KDs when the small KD went to war?

    If relations were such that they would have decayed enough that the small KD would have lost the button on big KD within 6 days (by the time they came OOW), then I'd have thought the big KD could just drop it.

    If relations were such that the small KD would still have button on the big KD when they came OOW, then I understand trying to force a CF out of them.

    Both monarchs here have wasted the time of everyone in their KDs.

    Monarch of big KD seems to have been trying to wave his nuts in the air to show off how big they were, expecting small KD to roll over. Now he's gotten his KD stuck and is trying to retroactively justify his KD waving into war using the 'relations' excuse (which I believe is situationally-valid, although this case could have been sorted out better).

    Monarch of small KD is being petulant and refusing to CF simply out of spite/pride. This is causing his KD to suffer, and I imagine they are unlikely to win their current war (assuming both KDs are pretty even, but one of those KDs is taking a bunch of oow hits). It seems he had several opportunities to accept CF, or to have sent one and left it to be accepted when mon of big KD logged in. But it seems ego and frustration prevailed on his part, and now his KD is taking a beating.

    I'd chalk this one up to a learning experience for both monarchs. LS in Utopia generally doesn't suit ego or emotion (although you could make an argument that the majority of top, competitive KDs are mostly motivated by ego).

    The question remains: why not just CF now? The response 'well, why should we?' is fine to give, although it comes from an emotional place and is ultimately unsatisfactory if the focus is on fixing the problem ASAP, rather than on judging the 'ethics' of the problem. But if this thread was started as a discussion about the 'rightness' or 'wrongness' of this course of action, then I assume the easy-CF option is somewhat unpalatable.

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  14. #59
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    2:20 responded to me after first wave and said no war to which I responded send cf. I have been trying to get a cf since day one and yet here we are. We want no part in hitting another kingdom in war, but due to hostility meter being as high as it is we have no choice. I have made numerous attempts to speak with the monarch of 220 to no avail. These guys started a dragon on us during our first wave and then cancelled it. We saw war as a possibility which is why we ran up meter as high as we did. Then I get a message from monarch saying no war, and I responded immediately "send cf". They never sent cf so we kept hitting thinking that war was imminent. Then days later they jump in a war and tell us to move on. I explained that we will be happy to move on once we get a cf, the king refused and said that hostilities are erased once one kingdom enters war. I explained to him that is not the case and once he is out of war the meter will still be high enough to have button for at least another 4 days. We could not simply move on and have the possibility of them catching us with our pants down. This isn't rocket science, all we want is a Cf to move on. We have no problem meeting later in the age on a more level playing field. This is ridiculous, we are wasting time and recources all because this guy doesn't want to accept cf for whatever reason. I even sent him a Cf to make it that much easier for him and it is still sitting there. I have been in contact with most of his kingdom and the kingdom he is at war with and it seems pretty obvious that most don't agree with him. At one point they sent a Cf but it was open for a total of 1 hour ( I think there steward secretly sent it and the king took it off the table when he saw it). At the time the cf was sent it was 3am and I did not see it until I woke up 3 hours later. We are not trying to be bullies, all we want is a Cf.

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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    If it was in 6:18 interest they should have sent a CF early on and moved on and they actually might have gotten at least 1 war this age. .
    6:18 are saying above that they did send a CF, but 2:20 didn't accept it (I think at that point, that was because the monarch of 2:20 didn't understand the purpose, as he thought hostilities were reset by war). I can't verify if that is true, but 2:20 haven't yet denied it. It seems to be the case, though, that 6:18 didn't send their CF until 22 April, which is some delay from the wave of 9 Feb. But noone has really shared enough info about what happened in between to make a judgement on that, IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    A point everyone seems to forget is that 6:18 when I had dealings with them a few years back, and also in this case it sounds like, are so afraid to lose wars that they wave way smaller kingdoms.
    6:18 said above that when they waved 2:20, 2:20 were bigger in acres and 6:18 were only 200k bigger in nw.
    Again, I haven't verified that myself.

    As I've just made a few comments which are to some extent in favour of 6:18, I will add that I have no idea who they are and I have no connection with them (or 2:20).

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