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Thread: Just your typical bullies of Utopia

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    6:18 are saying above that they did send a CF, but 2:20 didn't accept it (I think at that point, that was because the monarch of 2:20 didn't understand the purpose, as he thought hostilities were reset by war). I can't verify if that is true, but 2:20 haven't yet denied it. It seems to be the case, though, that 6:18 didn't send their CF until 22 April, which is some delay from the wave of 9 Feb. But noone has really shared enough info about what happened in between to make a judgement on that, IMHO.



    6:18 said above that when they waved 2:20, 2:20 were bigger in acres and 6:18 were only 200k bigger in nw.
    Again, I haven't verified that myself.

    As I've just made a few comments which are to some extent in favour of 6:18, I will add that I have no idea who they are and I have no connection with them (or 2:20).
    But that was several days later, if the wave was in February and they sent a CF in April its not very early is it? :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar View Post
    2:20 responded to me after first wave and said no war to which I responded send cf. I have been trying to get a cf since day one and yet here we are. We want no part in hitting another kingdom in war, but due to hostility meter being as high as it is we have no choice. I have made numerous attempts to speak with the monarch of 220 to no avail. These guys started a dragon on us during our first wave and then cancelled it. We saw war as a possibility which is why we ran up meter as high as we did. Then I get a message from monarch saying no war, and I responded immediately "send cf". They never sent cf so we kept hitting thinking that war was imminent. Then days later they jump in a war and tell us to move on. I explained that we will be happy to move on once we get a cf, the king refused and said that hostilities are erased once one kingdom enters war. I explained to him that is not the case and once he is out of war the meter will still be high enough to have button for at least another 4 days. We could not simply move on and have the possibility of them catching us with our pants down. This isn't rocket science, all we want is a Cf to move on. We have no problem meeting later in the age on a more level playing field. This is ridiculous, we are wasting time and recources all because this guy doesn't want to accept cf for whatever reason. I even sent him a Cf to make it that much easier for him and it is still sitting there. I have been in contact with most of his kingdom and the kingdom he is at war with and it seems pretty obvious that most don't agree with him. At one point they sent a Cf but it was open for a total of 1 hour ( I think there steward secretly sent it and the king took it off the table when he saw it). At the time the cf was sent it was 3am and I did not see it until I woke up 3 hours later. We are not trying to be bullies, all we want is a Cf.

    -Rhaegar Targaryen
    DEVOLORIAN
    Fire and Blood

    So, if they already responded after first wave with no war why would you keep hitting? Ie, you are digging just your own grave, knowingly very well that you wont get a war yet you keep adding points to the meter. But how come you cant send a CF? your CF button is broken? You talk about wanting a CF but not once did you offer a CF until several days later. After their messages of not wanting to war, send a CF = problem solved.

  2. #62
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    Please can one of the KDs post the complete chronology. Telling us that things happened "immediately" doesn't massively help as we don't know whether that is meant to be taken literally or not.

    To make proper judgement we need to be able to see (a) when attacks took place (b) what times messages were sent and received (c) what time 2:20's war started.

    I do appreciate that you didn't ask for our assessment and may not want it - but 2:20 did bring this to the forum...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    Please can one of the KDs post the complete chronology. Telling us that things happened "immediately" doesn't massively help as we don't know whether that is meant to be taken literally or not.

    To make proper judgement we need to be able to see (a) when attacks took place (b) what times messages were sent and received (c) what time 2:20's war started.

    I do appreciate that you didn't ask for our assessment and may not want it - but 2:20 did bring this to the forum...
    From the information in this thread and munk.

    6:18 waved 2:20 Feb 9th, at that time stats were following

    6:18
    Acres: 16475
    Networth: 3,7 million

    2:20
    Acres: 14652
    Networth: 3,2

    Then what we can assume during some time in Feb 2:20 sent a message telling "No war" ofc we dont know how many attacks been made at that point (probably not that many both being ghettos)

    April 4th 2:20 entered war with 8:6

    April 18th CF was sent by 2:20 but revoked the tick after 19th

    April 22th 6:18 sent a CF proposal to 2:20

    Even with all talks about 6:18 wanting a CF with 2:20 they havent sent one single CF proposal until 22th 18 hours into 2:20 war. From my experince of ghettoing around it feels like 6:18 believe they have the right to enter the CF at their own terms, ie get as much as acres as possible before accepting a CF and then move on. And if they wouldnt made anymore attacks after the initial wave (this ofc depends on when they got the messages of 2:20 not wating to war) the meter would have surely decayed until April 4th and for sure when 2:20 got oow again. So the pretens that they cant move on without ending relations is a self created problem and could have been easily avoided


    Disclaimer, i made some assumptions about amount of attacks and time some messages were sent but those are reasoanble guesses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    A point everyone seems to forget is that 6:18 when I had dealings with them a few years back, and also in this case it sounds like, are so afraid to lose wars that they wave way smaller kingdoms. I'd go so far as to call it cyber bullying since they went after my old kingdom like 4 ages in a row like this and they'll continue to hit even if you are fast to tell them you don't want war or offer a blank cf. They'll even break cf's to come at you again if they feel you are getting to close for comford so you can't really trust them either. Same team, same monarch and steward. There is no way this undermanned 2,6 million nw kingdom can come after a kingdom at 4,2 million nw, and hitting into their wars speaks more about the agressor than the defender.
    This repetitive, blind personal attack sounds a little ridiculous don't you think?
    1. Your "few years back" sob story with no evidence speaks more about your ability to hold a grudge than our lack of ethics.
    2. Cyber bullying? Really? It's a game about warring kingdoms and you're going to call getting waved once an age by the same KD bullying? Grow up.
    3. If you send the CF, generally speaking we'd accept it after the rest of our KD gets a piece (within an hour or two, we're not monsters). In this specific case, they did not send a CF AND they started a dragon. Naturally we assumed it was a stall tactic so we kept up the pressure. Hindsight 20/20, we should have sent CF right away and let them go hide in a bush and complain on the forums.
    4. I've been with this KD for 5 years, and I only remember a single instance of us breaking a CF without prior discussion of war terms. It was a surprise attack against a KD that had been harassing us earlier in the age, and we wanted to give them their just desserts. So if that KD was you, I'm happy you remember the bloodbath. It was a fun eoa war.
    5. You're projecting your victimhood onto this "undermanned 2,6 million nw kingdom". They weren't undermanned a few days ago, but their poor leadership has caused a few provs to abandon in the last week. If you read the previous comments you would know that our NW gap was well within war range at the time of the first wave, and they had more land. Pretending we're just picking on the little guy is a false narrative.
    6. We finally have our CF, so all other points are moot.

    Chris121: The meter was around 20 when they said no war, but then they started a dragon and cancelled it a couple hrs later. We then requested a CF but were given orders to keep the pressure up until they sent it. 3 days later the meter was around 40 and they jumped into another war and refused to give us a CF, because the monarch either truly believed war wiped relations, or just wanted to trick us. So our stew sent them an ultimatum to give us the CF within 3 hrs or we would raze into their war (the first post).

  5. #65
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    1. Your "few years back" sob story with no evidence speaks more about your ability to hold a grudge than our lack of ethics.
    Isnt that a bit comically consider your wild accusations about cheating with no actual proof besides one player claiming that someone cheated?

    2. Cyber bullying? Really? It's a game about warring kingdoms and you're going to call getting waved once an age by the same KD bullying? Grow up.
    No, what he is saying that you always target smaller kingdoms which is the bullying part. You dont seem to have the balls nor the skills to war kingdoms your own size nor bigger kingdoms (well obvious from your lack of wars this age)

    5. You're projecting your victimhood onto this "undermanned 2,6 million nw kingdom". They weren't undermanned a few days ago, but their poor leadership has caused a few provs to abandon in the last week. If you read the previous comments you would know that our NW gap was well within war range at the time of the first wave, and they had more land. Pretending we're just picking on the little guy is a false narrative
    They were still smaller, 500k nw and roughly 2k acres, you shouldnt have any issues finding kingdoms at your own size at your tier so why just targetting smaller kingdoms?

    Chris121: The meter was around 20 when they said no war, but then they started a dragon and cancelled it a couple hrs later. We then requested a CF but were given orders to keep the pressure up until they sent it. 3 days later the meter was around 40 and they jumped into another war and refused to give us a CF, because the monarch either truly believed war wiped relations, or just wanted to trick us. So our stew sent them an ultimatum to give us the CF within 3 hrs or we would raze into their war (the first post).
    Why cant you send a CF? Whats the problem? You already knew they didnt want to war? You knew from the begining that they diddnt want to have a have a war and you kept attack, the problem is all your side. Handling things badly.

  6. #66
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    @Korp: thanks for the summary - that is helpful (I know it's just publicly available info but you took the time to collate it form the mess of this thread and Munk, and that helps).

    @sirdante77: thanks. I guess we would need to understand exactly when it went from 20 to 40 in comparison to the diplo that was going on. I understand continuing to hit when they started a dragon because it wouldn't be clear what they were doing, but at some point after that they said no war.

    @Both KDs - well done for reaching a CF. There are probably some learning points all around since you both ended up wasting a lot of time and effort getting to the same point that could have been reached a while ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    @Both KDs - well done for reaching a CF. There are probably some learning points all around since you both ended up wasting a lot of time and effort getting to the same point that could have been reached a while ago.
    Yes we decided it was a lost cause and we're ready to move on. I hope what you say here is true. Cheers.

  8. #68
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    This is the first time I've ever said this, but I agree with Korp.

    If you want to find more wars, and you genuinely mean that - and I mean GENUINELY, not the 'wah, we want to find wars we WILL win by waving smaller kds!' - it's actually very easy: wave big, tough KDs. Waving a KD approx 15-20% smaller than you at time of wave (so, assuming a comfortable 20-25% smaller after wave, with way less off, not in war builds, huge casualties from their wave, scrambling to respond and get people online to wave, etc...) just gives you every single advantage possible, and you surely know that no ghetto is going to war you from that far behind and with that many disadvantages. Come on, toughen up. I know Devolorian to be a reasonably ambitious, decent warring KD, but this pattern of wave-behaviour seems to paint a picture of a KD who only wants to war when they hold all the cards.
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    being smaller in nw but bigger in acres means 2:20 was considderable more landfat at less ready for a war no matter how those figures looked like.

    I've had them wave for more than a day when I had 3 provinces who did not look like they had trained anything along with 1-2 big explorers that almost certainy only had defense, playing in a scrub kingdom does not mean that you'll overlook such things, and I most certainly told them we was not going to war within a few hours at most.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    being smaller in nw but bigger in acres means 2:20 was considderable more landfat at less ready for a war no matter how those figures looked like.

    I've had them wave for more than a day when I had 3 provinces who did not look like they had trained anything along with 1-2 big explorers that almost certainy only had defense, playing in a scrub kingdom does not mean that you'll overlook such things, and I most certainly told them we was not going to war within a few hours at most.
    At initially wave feb 9th they were smaller in both nw and acres (2:20 that is based on the figures from munk)

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    We have been assembled for over 40 ages.. we have never had to attack a kingdom in war before to get a cf. We are far from bullies and try to be as respectful as possible. The whole situation was self inflicted, the king just didn't understand how the hostility meter works. We are a GLORIFIED ghetto that has climbed the warring ranks numerous times. We don't just target smaller kingdoms and have had some damn good wars with well known kingdoms through out the ages

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar View Post
    We have been assembled for over 40 ages.. we have never had to attack a kingdom in war before to get a cf. We are far from bullies and try to be as respectful as possible. The whole situation was self inflicted, the king just didn't understand how the hostility meter works. We are a GLORIFIED ghetto that has climbed the warring ranks numerous times. We don't just target smaller kingdoms and have had some damn good wars with well known kingdoms through out the ages
    If you wouldnt have made more hits after the initial wave the meter would have decayed. Or just sent a CF that would have solved the problem but I guess its more fun to hit a kingdom that dont fight back and just waste more days instead of looking for a new war.

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    Must have missed the last page, good to see the numbers put on the table which suggests they are still waving 20% down, I mentioned that number already in my first post here, just goes to show I do not have that bad of a memory after all, and that old habits die hard.

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    @korp we don't just target smaller kingdoms.. you obviously are misinformed. That's neither here nor there, regardless in all my ages as a monarch (age 0) I have never had to send a Cf for a kingdom that we are waving. Usually a kingdom would send cf immediately to stop bleeding as fast as possible. Instead these guys waited, started a dragon, cancelled the dragon, then wrote me a private message saying


    Sender King Rhaegar Targaryen XXXI the Sorcerer of Dragonstone (6:18)
    Recipient King Puck the Chivalrous of Sirius (2:20)
    Subject Re:Really? Really

    Send cf >

    King Puck the Chivalrous of Sirius (2:20) said: > > Just saw you'd started a dragon.


    If we were a bit bigger, I'd say it was a good match.

    We are not though.

    There is zero chance of a war and a good chance of you wasting resources.

    Please rethink this.


    We started waving Feb 9
    They started a dragon Feb 11 and responded saying no war feb 11

    We have had kingdoms in the past say no war then turn around and hit button.

    I wasn't on when wave began and didn't come on until March 3 by that time we already had 16 attacks

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