Am I an asshole???

[Excalibus]

An interesting question and I am asking myself if I am because a kingdoms monarch called me that after our kd double quad razed a couple of their provinces (outside of war) when they did not accept the offered cf in a timely manner...

To set the scene, we are a fledgling kingdom - The core has been together 3 ages, and most of us come from a variety of uto experience levels... Anyway we were in the 4.5M to 5M nw bracket, with around 20K acres, 3 wars for the age, we just cf'd with another kingdom when they waved us and yet another kingdom decided to wave us for science... the usual kind of fare, a kingdom that is 6.5 M NW to our 4.6M or so at the start of the wave... I shot them a message early said we are not going to war them, we have our own targets etc...

They say send cf etc, the usual stuff again... I decide to let our tm's have some fun and so do not send a cf straight away... some 10 hours later our steward sends a CF, this is while I am at work and unable to login etc...


Anyway cf was sent on the 13th, I get home on the 15th, see their steward online, ask him to accept the cf etc... no response - I wait an hour while checking their kd page periodically and all the time he is showing here as online... okay I say to myself... As they had sent out attacks after the cf was offered, I decided to turn up the pressure some... I quad raze one of their provinces that had obviously been a chain target in their last war and then I shoot their (still showing as online) steward a warning that in 10 minutes we will do another quad raze... i let it go for 20 minutes... still no response... okay fek this... another quad raze goes out... along with a message stating either accept the cf or accept the consequences (along the lines of an emerald dragon at a time when it would suck for them to get one etc) and gave them a 3 hour window of opportunity to accept the cf before I start the drake...


2 hours go by, then 3, and finally their monarch gets online and accepts the cf then proceeds to tell me i am an asshole for razing their guys...

So am I an asshole??? Their steward claims he was sleeping, he was not online, but then why would he show as online for a 3 hour timeframe... apparently he runs a keep alive thingy in his browser... well how the hell am I to know that, how the hell am i to suppose he is sleeping when he shows as online in the game... Not responding to messages isn't a clue because so many semi ghettos who like to bottom feed just won't answer messages until they have had time to digest the content or feel they can get one more wave in before they accept a cf that's been offered etc...

Quite frankly if i'm gonna be accused of being an asshole then I will become one, right now, we are smacking down on a kingdom 1.5M below our NW, and 2K acres below us ONLY because one of their guys totally suicided anon on us and got caught short... so far they have taken reasonable losses and until they send a CF they will take more losses...

Is it my preferred choice??? Hell no, we have another kingdom that has been a little bit annoying to us that we feel we can probably take in war and they are an equal sized opponent to us but I cannot let the other kingdom go without a cf in place as we did retal the suicider and his kd mates quite vigorously and standing orders are to keep hitting them until a cf is offered... as usual...

[Excalibus]

and for the mods, if someone calls me an asshole in this thread, I honestly won't be offended :D as long as they can quantify and qualify their assertion :D

[Maeldun]

Uh, so a KD 1.5mil nw bigger than you is calling you the asshole? yeah right....

[Korp]

You send mixed signals, if I was the kd that you wanteted to CF i would have waved you again. You claim you want a CF but you dont show it by "letting your tms have some fun" and raze them. Since you're the in the position that you want the CF you should make no demands as in accept a CF in certain time frame or not.

[Excalibus]

my view was to not let them off scott free korp, let our tm's meteor etc their provinces - we were considering actually taking them into war... decided not to... inital message was we were not going to war them... we then decided no we were not going to war them at all, but due to life, i could not get online to send the cf so we ate 10 hours of abducts until our steward sent the cf... such is life... what irks me to be honest is their steward sending me a reply to my initial response saying he would accept the cf as soon as it was sent etc.. then when i log in 2 hours after the cf was sent, he is showing as online and not accepting the cf... after we ate 10 additional hours of abducts etc... soo... no there were no mixed signals... i sent a msg saying we were not interested in war, but that does not mean an auto cf offer IMHO... that means its up to the person waving to decide if they wish to persue it further... had they stopped when i messaged them, the meter would have dropped to unfriendly about 3 hours later...

and you bet i will make demands mate, when a person of influence - in this case their steward, is showing as online and their provinces come on and off etc, and still no acceptance of the cf thats been on the table for over 2 hours... yeah i will demand they accept it or accept the consequences of not accepting it... ima not one to back down man... not from people who think their size matters... just ask bart...

[Korp]

my view was to not let them off scott free korp, let our tm's meteor etc their provinces - we were considering actually taking them into war... decided not to... inital message was we were not going to war them... we then decided no we were not going to war them at all, but due to life, i could not get online to send the cf so we ate 10 hours of abducts until our steward sent the cf... such is life... what irks me to be honest is their steward sending me a reply to my initial response saying he would accept the cf as soon as it was sent etc.. then when i log in 2 hours after the cf was sent, he is showing as online and not accepting the cf... after we ate 10 additional hours of abducts etc... soo... no there were no mixed signals... i sent a msg saying we were not interested in war, but that does not mean an auto cf offer IMHO... that means its up to the person waving to decide if they wish to persue it further... had they stopped when i messaged them, the meter would have dropped to unfriendly about 3 hours later...

If you didnt want to war them dont op them, that will just agitate them. Which shows right? Maybe if you didnt op them nor raze them you might gotten your CF much faster. You seem to think that you're in a position of power in this situation which is wrong.

[Excalibus]

If you didnt want to war them dont op them, that will just agitate them. Which shows right? Maybe if you didnt op them nor raze them you might gotten your CF much faster. You seem to think that you're in a position of power in this situation which is wrong.

I let our TM's op them for S & G's and to let them engage and focus on something while we are in between wars, it's not a bad thing to do... the razes only come after 2.5 hours of waiting for them to accept a cf when their steward is showing as online during that whole time while other provinces in their kingdom flitted in and out of being online...

[Korp]

I let our TM's op them for S & G's and to let them engage and focus on something while we are in between wars, it's not a bad thing to do... the razes only come after 2.5 hours of waiting for them to accept a cf when their steward is showing as online during that whole time while other provinces in their kingdom flitted in and out of being online...

Why do you make a post when you refuse to listen to any other persons opinion?

[Persain]

let me clear up something...he had a msg from both the steward and monarch saying "as soon as you send a cf it will be accepted whatever length you want." He cant claim the kd that "Waved" him was being overly agressive.

An interesting question and I am asking myself if I am because a kingdoms monarch called me that after our kd double quad razed a couple of their provinces (outside of war) when they did not accept the offered cf in a timely manner...

For what its worth i called u an asshole because you were being one, threating us with a dragon or waving into war later and, quad razing when we didnt accept a cf in <3 hours. Or when one of us loged in didnt see the cf and u gave what 10 min before ANOTHER quad raze... Given you took 12 hours to send AFTER we agreed to cf and closer to 24 after our initial hits its pretty hipocritial. Even worse is i msged u at 1pm my time and you proceed to go nuts when neither me or my steward instantly accepts a 2am cf offer becuase hes just casting revelation before bed and i said i had u guys handled.


The key thing is

I decide to let our tm's have some fun and so do not send a cf straight away... some 10 hours later our steward sends a CF, this is while I am at work and unable to login etc...

quit being an asshole about not accepting a cf instantly when u op for 10 hours. if 2/3 of the kd wasn't pumping that typically would result in pk's.

If you didnt want to war them dont op them, that will just agitate them. Which shows right? Maybe if you didnt op them nor raze them you might gotten your CF much faster. You seem to think that you're in a position of power in this situation which is wrong.

He had a cf as soon as he sent one. We didn't even wave i just had 10 hits placed into him as a random and then when we got a few ops ordered hits till he cf'ed. Not my fault it took him 16 hours to send a cf after orders were hit till cf, or that it took 12 hours after me saying "yes welll cf you as soon as you send it, length is whatever you want." If he wants to threaten because people dont accept cf's at 4 am we easily could of responded in cause. I called him out for just that reason.

For whats its worth i called him an asshole because of (hits could of stopped july 22nd had he just sent a cf)

FIRST HITS-----July 13 double abduct....got doubled retaled and thus retaled to hostile
July 21st.......msg to my steward------> "as the title says, we are not going to war at this time so I will offer you guys a CF which i do expect to be accepted immediately"
Jan 1st.........no cf yet so i respond "will accept a cf whenever its sent whatever length around all day"
January 13......proposed a formal ceasefire with our kingdom.
January 14......pillaged + abducted into you
January 15......QUAD RAZE and threat
January 15......Quad RAze
January 16......abducted into you
January 16.....withdrawn their ceasefire proposal.+ threats of dragon+waving later
January 17......We have entered into a formal ceasefire (5:45 am)

[Excalibus]

just a few points i would like to address directly to Persian.

First point... When I got online (after work on the 15th) it was 4 pm my local time (approx), so the fact it was 1 am where your steward is, is irrelevant, he was showing online for over 2.5 hours on my end from the 15th when I got home, and right up until the time you logged in accepting the CF... I know that sounds wrong because of course his time zone is very relevant, just as what else is relevant is I had no idea what timezone he was in and my only information available was he was online and not communicating...

No you did not wave... you initiated hostilities to which we retalled and then later you began what looked like the start of an abduction run, to which I responded with the first message, we accept that you guys continued to hit until we sent the cf, that was not the issue that caused the double quad raze... we accepted the likelhood of being waved or at least continued hits from your side as a result of choosing to let our tm's off the chain a bit to stop them going stir crazy between wars... That was not the issue again i reiterate, the issue was your steward showing as online for 2.5 - 3 hours... I have had this situation before where the bigger kingdom decides to not respond to mails but simply continue to wave until they feel they cannot get any more from it then hit the accept button...

The double quad razes were a result of the hits your kingdom did after the CF was sent, and the perception from my side of the fence that your steward was just ignoring things... I had no idea he was not online, how could I know he was still asleep when he is showing as online? And yes I threatened continued razes and sending a dragon on you (probably when you would be at war with another kingdom) if you had not accepted the cf within the next 3 hours for a total of 5 hours of an open CF proposal... And yes the clock was ticking down on starting that dragon...


The time taken from when i first messaged you and then our side sending your kingdom the CF proposal and all that happened in between that time was never the issue from my perspective. it's what transpired (both actual and perceived) afterwards that I take issue with...

Quad raze a chained province that quad abducted hell yeah! Threaten a follow up 10 minutes later if the ONLINE showing steward does not accept the CF? you better believe it...

But if you like here is the timeframe from our side with first hit being from Murse in the 4th, which we double retal abducted i'll just post the summary for your kingdoms hits
** Kingdom news report **
For the time from July 4 of YR4 till January 17 of YR5 - 38 hours - initial hit 4th, then the start of an abduction run on the 13th
** The kingdom of **
Total land exchanged: -69 (23/13)
- Lord High Admiral (2/0)
- Professional Snuggler (1/0)
- Professional Poker Player (1/0)
- Chief of Unicorn Division (1/0)
- An unknown province (2/0)
-33 RubAndTugHandMasseuse (4/1)
-38 Murse (4/4)
-51 Drunk with a gun (2/2)
-132 Loli Streamer (6/6)

The reason for the withdrawal and repost of the cf (in the same tick actually within minutes of each other) was a duration thing, the initial timeframe would have ended in 20 hours or so, i resubmitted it with max duration...

I have no problems with you guys... but after your message telling me i was an asshole for double quad razing, i thought hmmm perhaps I am being an asshole and so come here seeking other peoples opinions on the matter... We stand up for ourselves, we have had to stand on our own a lot to be honest... going through from the lower tiers to upper mid can be a painful experience at times... But i want you to know the razes were intended to inflict reasonable damage on provinces that would quickly recover from them or we would have targeted razes on high gains provinces instead of your already chained guys who lost the least amount per raze...

[MrCurious]

my view was to not let them off scott free korp, let our tm's meteor etc their provinces - we were considering actually taking them into war... decided not to... inital message was we were not going to war them... we then decided no we were not going to war them at all, but due to life, i could not get online to send the cf so we ate 10 hours of abducts until our steward sent the cf... such is life... what irks me to be honest is their steward sending me a reply to my initial response saying he would accept the cf as soon as it was sent etc.. then when i log in 2 hours after the cf was sent, he is showing as online and not accepting the cf... after we ate 10 additional hours of abducts etc... soo... no there were no mixed signals... i sent a msg saying we were not interested in war, but that does not mean an auto cf offer IMHO... that means its up to the person waving to decide if they wish to persue it further... had they stopped when i messaged them, the meter would have dropped to unfriendly about 3 hours later...

and you bet i will make demands mate, when a person of influence - in this case their steward, is showing as online and their provinces come on and off etc, and still no acceptance of the cf thats been on the table for over 2 hours... yeah i will demand they accept it or accept the consequences of not accepting it... ima not one to back down man... not from people who think their size matters... just ask bart...

Who says you are entitled to a cf, or that they are obliged to take it?
Of course he is stringing you along so his last guys can get their hits in. You can as big of a a.....e as you like, but then again so can he. You ate a wave and so what. If it had been me waving you, and you started razing/opping and making demands i would have waved you until you broke. If you want a cf then eat the wave and you will get it. You cant expect to get free ops and razes just cuz you dont want to war.

[CheckerBob]

Maybe he's confused, maybe his own kingdom is calling him the asshole...

Not responding to messages isn't a clue because so many semi ghettos who like to bottom feed just won't answer messages until they have had time to digest the content or feel they can get one more wave in before they accept a cf that's been offered etc...

What's a semi ghetto? Either you are, or you aren't. : D

[Band of Horses]

I agree with Korp here. You are, but I wish you a happy Taylor Swift's birthday nonetheless.

[Thunder TA]

This also why kingdoms come in here complaining people wont end relations.Sometimes diplomacy and common sense go along way towards getting things done.

[Allanon]

As Korp said, if you told me you weren't going to war us and then let your guys op for 10 hours, I would have done another wave or two to ram the point home that if you don't want to war, send the cf promptly and don't mess around. If you then raze my guys, I'd start getting creative.

I won't call you an asshole (not least of reasons for which is I'm the guy on these subforums who's supposed to say "hey, don't call him an asshole"), but rather I'd say you made a move intended to inflame the situation rather than resolve it quickly, and then got nasty when they reacted in a reasonable way by continuing to hit. Fortunately for you, this time the other kd doesn't seem to have been the type to get nasty back.