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Thread: Am I an asshole???

  1. #16
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    You'd have to be a beggar to beg.

    A few of us play the game based in honorable stature, not resource accumulation.

    In game you can get PKd and start over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  2. #17
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    I totally disagree with the notion of not oping or retaliating. Not warring means not going to mechanical war. You offer a CF so they'll move on: it's not a declaration of sissy.

    You aren't telling them you won't fight, you're telling them you won't go into a low GBP, higher speed, both sides ops chaosfest.

    Let me tell you, we were being waved by some big kingdom, we offered CF, they kept waving and then some guy double abducted me. Oops. Retaliation is just the way it's got to be. My kingdom was not oping and this constitutes absolute rollover, unless I'm in your kingdom.

    My point to my kingdom mates isn't that I'm greedy but that they weren't going to stop. Think about that, hard. My game life isn't to be the victim of a grand scheming bottom feeder who thinks they've tricked me into something. I'm retaliating properly.

    Wimps and bottom feeders will go on. My actions won't change a culture of fear. The positive side is that my kingdom began to retaliate and the big kingdom honored the CF. I'm not here to tell you about ideal outcomes. I'm here to tell you I encouraged my kingdom to utterly destroy 6 provinces of the aggressing kingdom at all cost...without threats, just action.

    Excalibus is like most of us.
    I believe that once a kd has finished its wave, if it's been offered a cf without hit/op retaliation the reasonable thing to do is to move on. Anything else is greedy imo, so if you offer cf, don't otherwise respond beyond messages, and they don't take the cf within a reasonable time after finishing, that's one thing. There in that hypothetical situation I would say ops/retals are a reasonable response because its clear they aren't intending to move on.

    But if they wave you and you start opping or retalling them before they finish their first wave, or you don't offer the cf within a reasonable time frame and instead start opping/hitting, there I believe it's quite appropriate for the waving kingdom to do what it takes to force submission from the other kingdom.
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  3. #18
    Forum Addict MrCurious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    my view was to not let them off scott free korp, let our tm's meteor etc their provinces - we were considering actually taking them into war... decided not to... inital message was we were not going to war them... we then decided no we were not going to war them at all, but due to life, i could not get online to send the cf so we ate 10 hours of abducts until our steward sent the cf... such is life... what irks me to be honest is their steward sending me a reply to my initial response saying he would accept the cf as soon as it was sent etc.. then when i log in 2 hours after the cf was sent, he is showing as online and not accepting the cf... after we ate 10 additional hours of abducts etc... soo... no there were no mixed signals... i sent a msg saying we were not interested in war, but that does not mean an auto cf offer IMHO... that means its up to the person waving to decide if they wish to persue it further... had they stopped when i messaged them, the meter would have dropped to unfriendly about 3 hours later...

    and you bet i will make demands mate, when a person of influence - in this case their steward, is showing as online and their provinces come on and off etc, and still no acceptance of the cf thats been on the table for over 2 hours... yeah i will demand they accept it or accept the consequences of not accepting it... ima not one to back down man... not from people who think their size matters... just ask bart...
    Who says you are entitled to a cf, or that they are obliged to take it?
    Of course he is stringing you along so his last guys can get their hits in. You can as big of a a.....e as you like, but then again so can he. You ate a wave and so what. If it had been me waving you, and you started razing/opping and making demands i would have waved you until you broke. If you want a cf then eat the wave and you will get it. You cant expect to get free ops and razes just cuz you dont want to war.
    It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.

  4. #19
    Forum Addict MrCurious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanon View Post
    I believe that once a kd has finished its wave, if it's been offered a cf without hit/op retaliation the reasonable thing to do is to move on. Anything else is greedy imo, so if you offer cf, don't otherwise respond beyond messages, and they don't take the cf within a reasonable time after finishing, that's one thing. There in that hypothetical situation I would say ops/retals are a reasonable response because its clear they aren't intending to move on.

    But if they wave you and you start opping or retalling them before they finish their first wave, or you don't offer the cf within a reasonable time frame and instead start opping/hitting, there I believe it's quite appropriate for the waving kingdom to do what it takes to force submission from the other kingdom.
    Exactly
    It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.

  5. #20
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    I don't think it is up to the agressor to tell the defender what to do and not to do althougth the thing where you raze because you think the other guy is on and ignoring you is rather much over the top, seeing someone is online is no foolproof method to say they are.

    If the kingdom is so much bigger than you said they probably was not expecting a war but did it for gains only, their objective was to get it free and fast, and they likely took all the easy pickings in the first wave, so they have no interest in continuing into a 2nd or 3rd wave unless you'll give them an easy war. Bottom line is they hurt your kingdom and want to get away for free. Now you can be nice or you can try to hurt them back, if you got a war planned I'd suggest to be nice, if you got nothing planned make it as costly as you can while making it perfectly clear that you are simply defending yourself, you do not want to give out free stuff but make a reputation that you stand up for yourself, again I can not see a 4x raze as that unless it was absolutely the last resort.

    Just refused to give a blank cf the other day to a top kingdom who was 4x my size and waved my kingdom which is at 7 provinces only, went and FG'ed what I had mana for, and we retaled what we could without giving relations + keept smite on all provinces. I had made it clear when they did the same a week earlier and we reacted the same way, that we would not cf blank and that I wanted an eoa agreement before sending a cf and they finally agreed to that the second time arround. I bet you they think I'm an asshole now while I call this standing up for myself and fully believe they have set themself up for faliure by wasting time and resurces on us in this manner since we are irellevant for the top strife ranked arround 100, had it ended with them going ham over this I would have been sufficiently satisfied by taking away their kingdoms goal in exchange for them to take away mine.

  6. #21
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    Actually the correct and honorable manner is for the aggressor to offer the CF.

    For all who practice this game in some kind of resource accumulating ideal, you can go on eating waves and attacking smaller kingdoms. That's what you do and I respect that. Why? Because it's how we get to know each other.

    From my position I've encountered CF offers from my aggressors in my retaliation, alone. There were no kingdom mates in my shell and the offer from the aggressor was an honor gesture. It seems we all have a way of being. My point is that I know you're out there. Most all of the game is populated by capitulating mindsets that aren't even pragmatic. Once in a while honorable players will lock horns and when they do they can put the aggression away.

    Try offering the kingdoms you wave a CF when you're done instead of kicking them because they won't fight back. Give them an offer of decency that you can retract if you feel it required. First, the predator must understand his purpose in the food chain is not to kill all the food. That's for animals. Are we not human?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  7. #22
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    The aggressor isnt interested in a CF; besides that leaves potential for abuse. You m ake one wave, send CF, the enemy kd makes one wave back and then CFs. THe one party that wants the CF should be the one that offers the CF.

  8. #23
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    Just refused to give a blank cf the other day to a top kingdom who was 4x my size and waved my kingdom which is at 7 provinces only, went and FG'ed what I had mana for, and we retaled what we could without giving relations + keept smite on all provinces. I had made it clear when they did the same a week earlier and we reacted the same way, that we would not cf blank and that I wanted an eoa agreement before sending a cf and they finally agreed to that the second time arround. I bet you they think I'm an asshole now while I call this standing up for myself and fully believe they have set themself up for faliure by wasting time and resurces on us in this manner since we are irellevant for the top strife ranked arround 100, had it ended with them going ham over this I would have been sufficiently satisfied by taking away their kingdoms goal in exchange for them to take away mine.
    But at the same time you didnt send a messages wanting a CF so then its perfectly fine. But if you would have sent them a CF asking for a CF and then dropped all your mana and stealth on them that would be a different story.

  9. #24
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    If you wait 10 hours before even sending one,Then unload stealth and mana ,you have no reason to complain they didnt jump as soon as you sent one and accept it.

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  10. #25
    Forum Fanatic khronosschoty's Avatar
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    If your point is to not let them get freebies, then just keep oping and razing until they come to terms, no matter how powerful they are.
    #magi

  11. #26
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    That is of course correct, I told them my prize when their king suggested to send a cf because I don't trust people who wave me with keeping blanks, if you give me 25 meter points I can FG you for a week and you can't take much from us after the initial wave so cf was more in their interest than ours, alternatively pk'ing a kingdom that you took 1-2k acres from because you don't want to eat FG for a week and you don't want to give an eoa cf is just racking up the cost of those acres even more. Initially I did not use FG for a week, but we took back the land lost in the first wave over some days.

    I still believe that hitting back was fine in the OP mentioned senario, you do not have a cf until it is accepted, and you already stated your intentions not to war, as long as you hit back with modesty rather than in full force most other kingdoms should be smart enougth not to take the cf rather than to waste everyones time in prolonging hostilities spiralling out of control. I think 4x raze on some smaller province is going a bit over board and not being modest in retaliation, hitting a few selected targets on the other hand would be perfectly fine in contrast, if the other kingdom continue hostilities several days raze retals might be on the cards then to try and persuade them to back down.

  12. #27
    Forum Fanatic khronosschoty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    That is of course correct, I told them my prize when their king suggested to send a cf because I don't trust people who wave me with keeping blanks, if you give me 25 meter points I can FG you for a week and you can't take much from us after the initial wave so cf was more in their interest than ours, alternatively pk'ing a kingdom that you took 1-2k acres from because you don't want to eat FG for a week and you don't want to give an eoa cf is just racking up the cost of those acres even more. Initially I did not use FG for a week, but we took back the land lost in the first wave over some days.

    I still believe that hitting back was fine in the OP mentioned senario, you do not have a cf until it is accepted, and you already stated your intentions not to war, as long as you hit back with modesty rather than in full force most other kingdoms should be smart enougth not to take the cf rather than to waste everyones time in prolonging hostilities spiralling out of control. I think 4x raze on some smaller province is going a bit over board and not being modest in retaliation, hitting a few selected targets on the other hand would be perfectly fine in contrast, if the other kingdom continue hostilities several days raze retals might be on the cards then to try and persuade them to back down.
    I like your post here! I think it contributes a great deal to the talk.. Thank you for posting this.
    #magi

  13. #28
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    let me clear up something...he had a msg from both the steward and monarch saying "as soon as you send a cf it will be accepted whatever length you want." He cant claim the kd that "Waved" him was being overly agressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    An interesting question and I am asking myself if I am because a kingdoms monarch called me that after our kd double quad razed a couple of their provinces (outside of war) when they did not accept the offered cf in a timely manner...
    For what its worth i called u an asshole because you were being one, threating us with a dragon or waving into war later and, quad razing when we didnt accept a cf in <3 hours. Or when one of us loged in didnt see the cf and u gave what 10 min before ANOTHER quad raze... Given you took 12 hours to send AFTER we agreed to cf and closer to 24 after our initial hits its pretty hipocritial. Even worse is i msged u at 1pm my time and you proceed to go nuts when neither me or my steward instantly accepts a 2am cf offer becuase hes just casting revelation before bed and i said i had u guys handled.


    The key thing is
    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    I decide to let our tm's have some fun and so do not send a cf straight away... some 10 hours later our steward sends a CF, this is while I am at work and unable to login etc...
    quit being an asshole about not accepting a cf instantly when u op for 10 hours. if 2/3 of the kd wasn't pumping that typically would result in pk's.


    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    If you didnt want to war them dont op them, that will just agitate them. Which shows right? Maybe if you didnt op them nor raze them you might gotten your CF much faster. You seem to think that you're in a position of power in this situation which is wrong.
    He had a cf as soon as he sent one. We didn't even wave i just had 10 hits placed into him as a random and then when we got a few ops ordered hits till he cf'ed. Not my fault it took him 16 hours to send a cf after orders were hit till cf, or that it took 12 hours after me saying "yes welll cf you as soon as you send it, length is whatever you want." If he wants to threaten because people dont accept cf's at 4 am we easily could of responded in cause. I called him out for just that reason.

    For whats its worth i called him an asshole because of (hits could of stopped july 22nd had he just sent a cf)

    FIRST HITS-----July 13 double abduct....got doubled retaled and thus retaled to hostile
    July 21st.......msg to my steward------> "as the title says, we are not going to war at this time so I will offer you guys a CF which i do expect to be accepted immediately"
    Jan 1st.........no cf yet so i respond "will accept a cf whenever its sent whatever length around all day"
    January 13......proposed a formal ceasefire with our kingdom.
    January 14......pillaged + abducted into you
    January 15......QUAD RAZE and threat
    January 15......Quad RAze
    January 16......abducted into you
    January 16.....withdrawn their ceasefire proposal.+ threats of dragon+waving later
    January 17......We have entered into a formal ceasefire (5:45 am)
    Last edited by Persain; 13-12-2017 at 22:48.

  14. #29
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    I'm not having a problem with any of this.

    You Persain were the aggressor and in doing so risk the reaction. Excalibus acted like an a-hole and thus.
    When you're the aggressor, you blank: No need to teach lessons here. Everybody knows the score.

    I'm with Madchess. This is how you do it. Tops/nifty war & honor kingdoms shouldn't worry about what Madchess, me and a handful of others do regarding retaliation and diplomacy. There are plenty of resource managers worried about their honor or how many scientists they have.

    I took abductions from smaller kingdoms, but it was the big one that made my eyes twinkle.

    Edit: do I have to mention bigger kingdoms have more stuff?
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 13-12-2017 at 22:52.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  15. #30
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    @ strat i know, thing is if he brings it to the forums he still has no clue. Even after eating x8 razes, ops and a few retal abducts i cf'ed blank to a 1 week cf, about as nice a response as hes ever gonna get. I was simply calling him out in game msg in response to this.


    Sender Him
    Recipient Me
    Subject Re:yo

    Hey there, as your steward was online and our steward had already sent the cf proposal 2 hours ago, I asked your steward to accept the cf, I waited some time, still no response... so in anticipating him needing some encouragement, I razed one of your provinces and sent your steward a 10 minute timeframe before the next quad raze would happen on your kingdom....

    That time came and went without response, so a quad raze went out from one of our other provinces onto your kingdom as well... We won't give you guys the button but we will continue to raze...

    We also will be starting a dragon against you guys which wont be sent until the least opportune moment for your kingdom... Probably when you are at war with someone else... This is in response to the further lack of response from your steward to accept the cf... I will delay the starting of the dragon for a few hours only and that is simply to give you time to get online and accept the CF.

    if the CF is accepted prior to us starting a dragon, then obviously no dragon and no future problems from us for your kingdom will exist...

    But if you dilly dally or delay, and the dragon gets started then it will be funded and will be held until such a time as it's going to have the most negative impact on your kingdom...

    As I told your steward multiple times, the choice is yours and his as to what happens going forward...


    We would prefer not not have to worry about holding such a grudge but right now I am sick n tired of bottom feeding kingdoms that seem to feel that it's okay to not move one when asked initially politely or when a cf has been offered to basically not accept it hoping to get in another wave before hand... That my friend is a cheap shot we won't stand for at all!

    Cheers
    Scali

    ____

    Like i said that msg was sent at 4am. Theres no need to respond like that or raze retal acting like that when both my steward and i had said we'll accept a cf when its sent. 3 hours is hardly a "long" time to wait when u take 16+ hours to send the cf to begin with.

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