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Thread: Am I an asshole???

  1. #46
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    Firstly, using the phrase "which I expect to be accepted immediately" when you don't already have a prior agreement to reference with this condition is just automatically going to get anyone's back up. This right here is a prime example of how NOT to start diplo with another kd. Right off the bat, it paints you as an entitled individual who seems to think they are the one controlling the flow of the conflict.

    Second, stating you are going to send a cf and then failing to do so for a significant period of time is poor diplo. It portrays you as someone who cannot be relied on to follow through with their word. If you are going to delay sending the cf, don't tell them you will send one. Again, it just pisses people off.

    Thirdly, you have stated you don't want war. That automatically puts you in a submissive position in negotiations. The other kd knows they can keep hitting and hitting if you don't submit safe in the knowledge the button will not be used, and since they patched gains throttling for in-range kds, they can and will end up hurting you significantly if that happens. If you want to be seen as a kd that won't roll over, don't open diplo with that.

    Lastly, before sending a cf, always open discussion with the province you believe to be online to confirm they are actually around to accept the cf. If they say they will accept it straight away and then delay, withdraw the cf and explain why. Resubmit the cf when you have come to an understanding about what happened, or when you feel you need a cf at all costs.

    Diplo is all about two-way communication and understanding. Sometimes you have to fudge some details, sometimes you omit things, that is part of the game. But the way you handled this incident says a lot of negative things about you as a negotiator and kd leader.
    Last edited by Allanon; 14-12-2017 at 12:09.
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  2. #47
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    I can not however see any arrogance in those responses, I sense that it is written out of spite because you are tired of getting abduct waved for what the 10th time this age? it would be best if you could not let that shine through when you try to be diplomatic because not everyone would be understanding of getting so offensive messages, to me you sounds like a guy that might be in need of a break away from the game or atleast from leadership more than anything
    You dont see the arrgoance when he demands that he should get what he wants right away? Especially when hes not in a position to make any demands at all.

  3. #48
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    @madchess....he got randomed with 2 hits they responded with a double abduct back my guys retaled with placed 8 hits from 4 people. All before he asked for a cf. When he asked for a cf our hits stopped for 3-4 hours and when he didnt send it i had us abduct wave him. The fact is he waited another 13 hours as we hit then instantly demanded we cf before any other hits could come. I could easily have waited another 48 hours before attacking as our whole kd was on 50% guilds 20% univercities doing nothing. Fact is we were litterally as nice as any kd hes going to see and the response he gave was the exact kinda response that gets you pk'ed if you run into someone who actually isn't willing to put up with **** like that.


    Edit...everyone should also not forget we were 22k acres they were 21k acres when the hits/retals started. nw might be differnt but the kds sizes were/are on par its hardly wrong for us to ensure a cf is put up when we hit them hostile and THEY ask for one given how close the kds were in size.
    Last edited by Persain; 14-12-2017 at 11:31.

  4. #49
    I like to post MyNameIsMatija's Avatar
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    Is this how the moderators don't get involved into politics now? This Allanon is Palem+Hawk on steroids holy tits.

    Anyway, you are not an asshole dude, what a terrible premise these guys are trying to shove down your throat. I see a lot of don'ts in this thread, means you are doing it right my man.
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  5. #50
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    Agreed with Madchess.

    Also, the context of who you're debating with matters. Excalibus is debating with the dominant kingdoms advocates and 'professional argument forumites'.

    Now, on to the dominant kingdom advocates. They will always stand lockstep in their interests because they explore and take position to draw resources from below. Their diplo backdrop is in their best interest and promotes the pump meta.
    It's because they are powerful and well informed that makes them ideal retaliation targets in my opinion.

    Additionally, I'm not one to screw around with competing kingdoms unprovoked. I respect what they're trying to accomplish. Oftentimes in retaliation I'm not trying to do critical damage to chain alignment or t/ms and this can sometimes be misread as weakness or ignorance. I'd like these powerful kingdoms to know we have been in them and understand how to throw a wrench in the clockwork. Personally I'm enjoying the exchanges and mean no real harm. I've messaged kingdoms before to ensure them that we're just sparring and that I'd cease my retaliations if they inform me they're emphasis is on prep.

    What I never respond to is presumption of power. I'll retal known raze retaliators because survival is second on my list of Utopian endeavors.
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  6. #51
    Post Fiend Excalibus's Avatar
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    @madness, you might be right with perhaps taking some time out from leading the kingdom and going back and just enjoy being a province again :D

    @Persian
    Really as for taking a hard line on bottofeeding kingdoms, yes our kingdoms were similar sized in acres with you guys only being about 1K acres larger than us, with an extra 1.5M in relative nw clearly we were never going to war you guys... that was obvious... but to think one of your guys would get off quad abducting while having very little defense of his own was ever going to float is IMHO arrogant... I have already stated what annoyed me and led to the razes, was it a mistaken assumption on my behalf? in this case i think it was for sure, would I do things differently or would I make the same assumption given the same information I had on hand at the time, in all honesty I would probably come to the same conclusion I come to prior to the razes and would still have sent out the razes...

    Yes communication is a 2 way street, yes I could have done this or that differently, hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it... And I will take on board what you have said...

    Perhaps I am just an asshole who is burning out a bit and pretty much starting to just see utopia as a bottom feeding troll of a game with very little strategy or diversity left in it....

  7. #52
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    @Strat....allanon and korp are basically saying dont @!#$ around with bigger kds. And while i take that aproach myself and i typically just cf bigger kds when they wave because it isn't worth the hassle(read when they act nicely).

    My point is this guy ONLY had us acting nice to him. We miniwaved a retal and agreed to cf as soon as it was sent. Him taking forever to send it then demanding it instantly, raze retaling x8 and threatening to send a dragon into our next war because we didnt cf in <3 hours and one guy did split a random into them is him acting poorly. I've hit you before and gotten retaled by you before, i've also had to pk someone 3 times and cf 10 kds because they simply wanted to grief us for using our "power." Guess what the guy we pk'ed then had to cf every kd he defected into....happened because the in game msgs were more like Excalibus V how you respond.

  8. #53
    I like to post MyNameIsMatija's Avatar
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    I like your posts in this thread Strato. There's a time with a place for everything and this is when with where you should do your regular shtick I feel (not trying to argue my points - that's just silly). Soon you will be shapeless like Bruce.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    @Persian
    Really as for taking a hard line on bottofeeding kingdoms, yes our kingdoms were similar sized in acres with you guys only being about 1K acres larger than us, with an extra 1.5M in relative nw clearly we were never going to war you guys... that was obvious... but to think one of your guys would get off quad abducting while having very little defense of his own was ever going to float is IMHO arrogant... I have already stated what annoyed me and led to the razes, was it a mistaken assumption on my behalf? in this case i think it was for sure, would I do things differently or would I make the same assumption given the same information I had on hand at the time, in all honesty I would probably come to the same conclusion I come to prior to the razes and would still have sent out the razes...
    July 13 of YR4 x invaded and abducted scientists from your kd.
    July 13 of YR4 x invaded and abducted scientists from your kd.
    July 16 of YR4 you attacked and abducted scientists from x
    July 16 of YR4 you invaded x and captured 69 acres of land.

    No quad abduct, when the average sized prov in our kd is randoming out into kds of equal size and doubles because hes training def, having left eowcf <24 hours ago, i expect the average kd to either eat it and move on OR to retal, then when we respond ask for a cf and do actual diplomacy. Sure it may have been obvious no war was going to happen, but you ate 10 hits over 12 hours because you retaled...thats basically nothing and by no means "tired of geting bottomfed on". You want to get waved try 15 attackers tripleing everyone in your kd for abducts....if it wasnt me leading thats the response you'd get for quad razing x2 like that when our hits were minimal into you before you asked for a cf.

  10. #55
    Post Fiend Excalibus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    also had to pk someone 3 times and cf 10 kds because they simply wanted to grief us for using our "power." Guess what the guy we pk'ed then had to cf every kd he defected into....happened because the in game msgs were more like Excalibus V how you respond.
    So you basically staked a guy who did not speak nicely to you through multiple defections and across multiple kingdoms to kill him 3x... Mate, you take asshole to a whole new level, that is actually you admitting to not only cyber bullying but really being a total and completely utter asshole, and you have the nerve to call me an asshole, heck i'm not even close to being an ass hair by comparison to what you just admitted to doing...

  11. #56
    I like to post MyNameIsMatija's Avatar
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    Yada Yada Yada, can't you settle this in-game? Like Strato said, there is no assumed power, there's just the game.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    So you basically staked a guy who did not speak nicely to you through multiple defections and across multiple kingdoms to kill him 3x... Mate, you take asshole to a whole new level, that is actually you admitting to not only cyber bullying but really being a total and completely utter asshole, and you have the nerve to call me an asshole, heck i'm not even close to being an ass hair by comparison to what you just admitted to doing...
    No he was a dick so we pk'ed him. He re-spawned waved us into war, x 50, so we pk'ed him. He waited a week spawned in a new kd and wave us into our next war x 20 so we killed him again. He did the same thing into our 3rd war, so we cf'ed the "new" kd. He deffected quad abducted us. We cf'ed the new kd, he waited 24 hours defected abducted us again....spent over a week dealing with every new kd he defected to untill he got stuck in the deftect into kds we've already cf'ed loop. In total that guy ate up 1.5 months just hitting us because of our intial pk for treating us similarly to how u treat me. the only differnce was he was in game pming one of my players and not me so i stuck up for my guy instead of just moving the kd onwards
    Last edited by Persain; 14-12-2017 at 12:06.

  13. #58
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    @Korp I see that as desperation not arrogance

    @Persain I do not dispute that the diplo was poorly handeled from their side and could have cost them a lot more if you had handeled it poorly as well, still down in the lower tiers you get picked on so much that you hardly can tell the diffrence from time to time, some get tired of this and snap or quit altogether when they think enought is enought. I advocate looking at both sides of the story and dig deeper, you might find that you learn something, for instance I can assure you that dubble abducts gets retaliated more than twice as often as if you simply do 1x abducts on two seperate provinces, and that is regardless of gains and who you hit, it is simply a matter of mentality.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    @Persain I do not dispute that the diplo was poorly handeled from their side and could have cost them a lot more if you had handeled it poorly as well, still down in the lower tiers you get picked on so much that you hardly can tell the diffrence from time to time, some get tired of this and snap or quit altogether when they think enought is enought. I advocate looking at both sides of the story and dig deeper, you might find that you learn something, for instance I can assure you that dubble abducts gets retaliated more than twice as often as if you simply do 1x abducts on two seperate provinces, and that is regardless of gains and who you hit, it is simply a matter of mentality.
    i honestly dont care about the retal, or the fact i had to diplo, my kd had a massive stall ahead of it given the shape we are in and our size below the top 75 constantly being fed on ourselfs....my only point was he was acting poorly and to chill the @#$ out and to act like a grown up or his time in utopia as a leader is gonna SUCK as his kd suffers for how he was acting.

  15. #60
    Post Fiend Excalibus's Avatar
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    January 5 of YR5 your guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy
    January 5 of YR5 same guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy
    January 5 of YR5 same guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy
    January 5 of YR5 same guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy


    err of course there was no quad abduct was there... i can think of a number of things that i would say but you're full of sh.. would seem applicable here...

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