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Thread: Am I an asshole???

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    January 5 of YR5 your guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy
    January 5 of YR5 same guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy
    January 5 of YR5 same guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy
    January 5 of YR5 same guy attacked and abducted scientists from our guy


    err of course there was no quad abduct was there... i can think of a number of things that i would say but you're full of sh.. would seem applicable here...
    yes after it seemed you wouldnt cf we went all out hitting. I however wouldnt expect the intial double tap to be retaled(EDIT...which is what i was intially responding to) if u didnt want us to hit you more while we were "Randoming"
    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    guys would get off quad abducting while having very little defense of his own was ever going to float is IMHO arrogant
    and i expect that if we had to force a cf with you because you wouldnt cf that i could demand 20 hits into you from my fearies who send out to 0 def if i were demanding you "surrender." As i said what made you a jerk was the in game msg, and the way you handled the cf, not for any retals while we hit waiting for you to cf and expecting we'd have to force a cf after you took so long to send one.
    Last edited by Persain; 14-12-2017 at 12:20.

  2. #62
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    I'd just like to emphasise my posts are not taking sides on the whole larger kd vs smaller kd thing. Since I run a larger kd, I think it's pretty clear where I come in on that particular topic. I was trying to offer some genuine tips regarding diplo and handling waves, that are applicable at almost any size against almost any opponent, bigger or smaller, that could help him achieve his goals better in future based on what he did here.

    Whether or not he's an asshole is irrelevant to the discussion. He represented his kingdom poorly and as a result could potentially have cost his kingdom dearly had the other kd had a less kindly monarch at the helm. I'm not advocating defending kingdoms roll over for attacking kingdoms. I'm just saying his handling of the diplo was atrocious to start with, his actions contradicted his words on a number of issues, and he acted rather rashly in his handling of obtaining the cf in the end, which could easily have bit him in the ass.
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  3. #63
    Post Fiend Excalibus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    yes after it seemed you wouldnt cf we went all out hitting. I however wouldnt expect the intial double tap to be retaled(EDIT...which is what i was intially responding to) if u didnt want us to hit you more while we were "Randoming"
    and i expect that if we had to force a cf with you because you wouldnt cf that i could demand 20 hits into you from my fearies who send out to 0 def if i were demanding you "surrender." As i said what made you a jerk was the in game msg, and the way you handled the cf, not for any retals while we hit waiting for you to cf and expecting we'd have to force a cf after you took so long to send one.
    And that last bit you state - expecting to force a CF - thats an interesting situation in itself... is your CF proposal button broken? Perhaps you should send an email to support and see if they can fix that for you :D

    Of course I know what you meant and as I stated, I had no issues with the hits that you guys made during the time from our initial message to when the cf was proposed... Hmm it does sound like you were of the assumption we would not sent it... But point taken on the perhaps over the top aggressive wording used in my responses after the cf was actually sent... Perhaps I lack the education or the patience to be a better diplomat...

    I am not sure whats worse really for the game, bottom feeding kingdoms or vulture kingdoms that want to wave you within hours of coming OOW...


    So what i take away from this is, find kingdoms well below us in nw, at least 28% lower in networth but within 1 - 2K acres below us and punch them and keep punching them until they send a cf offer...
    Righto... off to the target finder I go... Cheers for that pro tip...

    I'll become a bottom feeding asshole ... Thanks for explaining that to me and pointing me in the right direction... Doh! why did i not see it before? It's so obvious now...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post

    I am not sure whats worse really for the game, bottom feeding kingdoms or vulture kingdoms that want to wave you within hours of coming OOW...


    So what i take away from this is, find kingdoms well below us in nw, at least 28% lower in networth but within 1 - 2K acres below us and punch them and keep punching them until they send a cf offer...
    Righto... off to the target finder I go... Cheers for that pro tip...
    .
    You already said that they didn't wave you, and also that you thought it may be the case that your KD attacked them first. So I'm not really sure what your point is here?

  5. #65
    Post Fiend Excalibus's Avatar
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    i am not saying they waved us, although they did a mini wave of course... the reference about kingdoms waving within ours of coming oow, seems to be a thing plunder waves well not full waves but you get the idea...

    It would be the ONE thing if they removed that particular feature from umunk would make the actual game better IMHO... Because then you could not type in an easy command to see who has come OOW in the last few hours across the server and be likely easy plunder targets...

  6. #66
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    If you were 28% lower nw and only 1-2k acres smaller at your size, no offense but it sounds like you have some planning issues of your own. That sort of nwpa variance strongly implies you were pretty land-fat, which in the age of land-based gains makes you a decent target for randoms. And ofc if you retal they're going to take it further because at your lower nwpa, the gains would be awesome. You being land-fat probably had a lot more to do with being selected for randoms than your actual kd nw
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  7. #67
    Post Fiend Excalibus's Avatar
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    interestingly. most of us are on 70% draft and we have an average of 233 nwpa right now and that's after the more recent attacks incoming.... Doing a quick kingdom search in munk based on 20K - 23K acres and 0 to 28m NW... i get results showing our NWPA in the middle of that 18 kingdom band, so not the lowest nor the highest.

    We have not stopped for science pumps, most of us have not bothered with uni's at this point in the age but it is becoming apparent that they are basically mandatory now... in the least to deter science farming...

    Right now we are taking a wave from a 24.8K acre kingdom which is similar nw to Persians kd at 6.5M nw... To put that into some context, we are ranked 90th NW and 92nd for land, they are ranked 50th for nw and 73rd for land

    So perhaps indeed we are fat... normally our nw has been 10 - 20 ranks above our land size but at the moment its close to parity...

    Although when I blow out the search to 20K to 25K acres - same nw settings, i get 34 kingdoms and when viewing ranked on nwpa we are right in the middle so that puts us as clearly an average kingdom of those within the band (NWPA wise) with Persians kingdom topping that list some 59 NWPA (approx) above us...

    Anyway all this is a moot point... Im an asshole and I have to now go on and become a proficient bottom feeding asshole... As is the way the game is to be played according the gameplay I am seeming to be on the recieving end of...

    So Allanon please put your moderator hat on for a moment and close the thread, I see no point in further discussing if I am an asshole because apparently the answer is I am...
    Last edited by Excalibus; 14-12-2017 at 14:14. Reason: additional info

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allanon View Post
    I'd just like to emphasise my posts are not taking sides on the whole larger kd vs smaller kd thing. Since I run a larger kd, I think it's pretty clear where I come in on that particular topic. I was trying to offer some genuine tips regarding diplo and handling waves, that are applicable at almost any size against almost any opponent, bigger or smaller, that could help him achieve his goals better in future based on what he did here.

    Whether or not he's an asshole is irrelevant to the discussion. He represented his kingdom poorly and as a result could potentially have cost his kingdom dearly had the other kd had a less kindly monarch at the helm. I'm not advocating defending kingdoms roll over for attacking kingdoms. I'm just saying his handling of the diplo was atrocious to start with, his actions contradicted his words on a number of issues, and he acted rather rashly in his handling of obtaining the cf in the end, which could easily have bit him in the ass.
    You're fine. Matija just expressing his opinion. I've no problem with mods having bias/opinions. I appreciate your response because it shows you care.

    Our differences would play themselves out in game. You mention you retired but that doesn't mean you don't play.

    Excalibus reacted seriously to a serious threat. Persain is a fine fellow in a position of strength. I'm talking about in game. The logic behind victim kingdom capitulation I read from you guys is something I find amusing.

    Because at the end of the day we play for the competition. If Excalibus is attempting to bring his kingdom up then we should celebrate his effort. When new kingdoms join the fray of the old experts it will always be at the expense of the tier they wish to compete against. Aren't you glad he didn't ask for help?

    What are your crowns worth without facing formidable competition?
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 14-12-2017 at 20:59. Reason: Misspelltation
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  9. #69
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    Our differences would play themselves out in game. You mention you retired but that doesn't mean you don't play.
    I did retire, but I came back to the game about an age and a half back. Built up a new kd.

    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    Excalibus reacted seriously to a serious threat.
    But that's just it. Persian was quite reasonable about the situation, willing to accept the requested cf in a timely manner even in the face of a rather abrupt demand for it. Excalibus then failed to send the cf and instead they received 10+ hours of ops, leading Persian to believe no cf was forthcoming as he'd been led to believe, so a wave was ordered, which in the face of mass-ops from a kd after a brief retal exchange and the non-appearance of a requested cf is a reasonable response. The "threat" you mention was entirely one of Excalibus' own making. As i mentioned above, there are a number of ways he could have handled this better that would have mitigated the situation somewhat. Instead he took a rather extreme course of action in the end that could just have easily have resulted in significant losses for his kingdom
    "The phrase... 'Who's your daddy?'... comes to mind"

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post

    Because at the end of the day we play for the competition. If Excalibus is attempting to bring his kingdom up then we should celebrate his effort. When new kingdoms join the fray of the old experts it will always be at the expense of the tier they wish to compete against. Aren't you glad he didn't ask for help?

    What are your crowns worth without facing formidable competition?
    I agree with this. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with Excalibus on this particular issue. That's not because I am in the "stronger KD" or weaker KD "camp" - I don't have sides on that. Almost every KD is stronger/weaker than another KD. I simply look at the information presented in the forum and form a conclusion from what is said. In this case, my view is that Excalibus is in the wrong.

  11. #71
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibus View Post
    I am not sure whats worse really for the game, bottom feeding kingdoms or vulture kingdoms that want to wave you within hours of coming OOW...
    There is no vulturing anymore. It's fundamentally impossible when kds get an automatic 4 days of fake war to recover. Remember when you got dumped out the moment withdraw happened?

    But anyway, I thought you handled the situation with Persian very well! You're a perfectly reasonabru person.
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  12. #72
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    When octobrev is taking your side you know its time to look at your life choices closely :p

    Btw octo, hit up David if you haven't already, he had some ideas he wanted to run by you
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  13. #73
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    If we take the feelings out of the way then it looks reasonable to me.

    My point is that the aggressive kingdom is going to react however the heck they are. Persain is a cool guy, but that's one, I repeat, one monarch in a powerful position. My experience is taking hits from multiple kingdoms including waves because I don't occupy powerful kingdoms.

    I've enjoyed the luxury of top kingdom diplo when I've taken short trips to competitive ranks. I remember not being randomed even once. Because I sympathize with pump and the need for tops to be in supreme shape there's an understanding on my part. We recently had a guy stealing from a top kingdom we warred out of protection. They raze retaliated. He deserved it. My hope was that our guys would learn from the beginning of age beat down and gain some respect and insight for top kingdom Kung Fu.

    Respect, fear and resentment are different things. I respect but never fear, and don't hold resentment. I'm here to learn and facing powerful enemies is the best way from my perspective. I want to see what they do..how they react. I evaluate their steps. Fear and resentment will often cloud your vision, preventing the opportunity to learn.

    Todays lesson is diplo: how you see it and how we see it. This is why debate has value. Not to win, but to explore every facet of opposing views. Winning has always seemed easier than learning, so I choose learning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  14. #74
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    <Edited - Reason: Inappropriate comment>
    Last edited by Allanon; 14-12-2017 at 22:49.
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  15. #75
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    @Excalibus Just like constantly being a target of waves might not be your thing you might find hitting down 30% not to be to your taste, joined a kingdom who aspired to be in the top a few ages back, I can safely say that was not for me, getting ordered time and again to hit a kingdom with no hint of a chance to take up the fight left a bad taste, and I don't want to spend hours uppon hours on 3rd party chat programs either. I had less battles that age than I have had any other age, and lerned that top kingdoms faced with bad odds will cover and cry just as often as any lower ranked kingdom.

    Now living out the dream in a kingdom with 7 players, but I wish there was a few teams arround with the courage and skills to back up to stand up to great odds, to fight for what they believe in and disrupt the current food chain, I just need a banner to follow, but I don't see any worthy ones arround, so all I can do it practice this on the small scale I'm capable of on my own.

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