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Thread: Utopian bullies and scum

  1. #16
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    Strat, how is one KD of equal size waving another KD bullying? Since they agreed war then ghosted us and backed out we thought a wave might change their mind for a 4th time.

  2. #17
    Forum Fanatic khronosschoty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    Almost never listen to anyone tell you to learn to diplo: that's incorrect language.

    I'm not saying Pestilence logic isn't colloquial or even Utopian, but it's not the way things have to be. For instance I have zero desire to war a reluctant kingdom. Now I don't have an impatient kingdom to deal with but I'd like to see us grow above it. The question is, would such a kingdom be falling over itself to wave Divinity or Freeakstyle? Would it?

    No reason to pick on Pestilence since he represents a common posture to a smaller kingdom. They act as if the game isn't filled with targets other than the reluctant one. You pumped: It's not the end of the world. Hit a kingdom you aspire to defeat not one you know you can. Trying to teach lessons in violence isn't good for player base morale.

    We're all suppose to be tough but I can tell you that very few times I've offered to retaliate for a t/m they've taken me up on it. Fact is when I've run t/m I retaliate myself if I can break. You know why? Because it is the injection the game needs.

    Go up, at least sideways, not down. Instead of going negative, try to guide a kingdom that clearly wasn't in your league.
    When you mention diplo, and the kingdom sent you a blank CF; well that's how we do it down here. You should respect that, or aspire to respect the casual core of this game.

    Yeah, I'm still going. Because this crap where a casual kingdom exchanges hits only to learn they're outclassed is going to happen like a bar fight. You walk away, particularly if you're mastered. To then call it a lesson is pure bullying, and you don't want to be that. I compell real competitive war kingdoms to face each other. It's late age so go find Valhalla.
    hi Strato this post made me feel encouraged.
    #magi

  3. #18
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    War or don't war (and take a wave or two). Don't ignore and then cry in the forums.

  4. #19
    Post Demon umajon911's Avatar
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    I still standby what I said. Drop CF. Wave. War.... Its a war game.
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  5. #20
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    Naimadally- It doesn't sound form the messages like they were demanding a particular start date - are there some we haven't seen?

    I understand the issue with new people giving ops away. Hopefully they learn from this one. I find most people only need one real time when they do it and then get opped to pieces to get it.

    If the messages are representative, I can understand why they waved you. Your KD's messages were misleading (even if unintentionally) and it's annoying for their monarch to have to keep telling his/her KD different things (the Kd get annoyed that the plans keep changing - that annoyance gets focussed on the leadership, and it is then often turned towards the opposing KD).

    @umajon - presumably the CF is set in game to last to EoA.
    Last edited by Chris121; 22-01-2018 at 10:32.

  6. #21
    Post Demon umajon911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    @umajon - presumably the CF is set in game to last to EoA.
    Ah forgot bout that, they got preset dates...
    “The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be.”
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by umajon911 View Post
    I still standby what I said. Drop CF. Wave. War.... Its a war game.
    It's a strategy game

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    Naimadally- It doesn't sound form the messages like they were demanding a particular start date - are there some we haven't seen?

    I understand the issue with new people giving ops away. Hopefully they learn from this one. I find most people only need one real time when they do it and then get opped to pieces to get it.

    If the messages are representative, I can understand why they waved you. Your KD's messages were misleading (even if unintentionally) and it's annoying for their monarch to have to keep telling his/her KD different things (the Kd get annoyed that the plans keep changing - that annoyance gets focussed on the leadership, and it is then often turned towards the opposing KD).

    @umajon - presumably the CF is set in game to last to EoA.
    We didn't demand a particular date, just hoped they would give an option other than the 4th(5am for most of KD). We would have reluctantly accepted that date if they said it was their only option.

    They didn't just accidealntally give ops, the meter was 60-30 or somewhere around there, so to say we just beat on them for 48 hrs is ridiculous. Especially since they started ops 2hrs before we even waved, and the actual conflict went from May 6-June 24(less than 48hr). The OP is just exageratting every detail to play the victim card.

  9. #24
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    The OP should feel lucky that preset date CF is implemented. Else they would be waved again for sure, for wasting others' time, and cry foul in forum with misleading information.

  10. #25
    Utopia Talk Moderator Allanon's Avatar
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    KD asks for a war. After discussing terms, KD gets turned down. KD then waves anyway and pushes for a war. I fail to see what's even remotely dishonorable, bullying or reason to call names here.

    The concept of an organised war is relatively new in Utopia, and turning down a war does not grant you immunity from being waved. And the opposing kd is under absolutely no obligation to accept a cf during or after the first wave. The fact that you seem to think it does speaks more to your inexperience with the game than the behaviour of the opposing kingdom.
    "The phrase... 'Who's your daddy?'... comes to mind"

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  11. #26
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    [QUOTE=Chris121;15460566]Naimadally- It doesn't sound form the messages like they were demanding a particular start date - are there some we haven't seen?

    I've been in the game long enough to realise this isn't the greatest crime ever committed. We did have a war agreed with 4:1. I'm not sure on all the timelines.

    As per the messages posted earlier, I did defer to the monarch to ensure no confusion. No pre war ops against a kd filled with 8 tpa raw rogues is not something our kd understood the implications of, save for a few of us.

    The retals by our kd were STUPID. We should have op'd them for a few days. It was obvious Xian and another dorf was temp inactive, and Xian was perm inactive. Their activity was low. My opinion on it was as follows:
    After 2-3 days of one sided ops, we would have been in a good spot. Identifying who their inactives were, we would have been in a good spot. However, I did not want to reward someone for forcing us into a war, and I did not want to reward our noobs for acting outside of posted RC.

    I have access to multiple messages, including our sub declining war on Game Date March 1 of YR10 Real Date Wed, 17 Jan at 18:27 GMT+00:00, and incoming messages from Oyster requesting specific start time and no ops(twice), and on 2 occasions the sub redirecting Oyster to the Monarch.

    Leadership in our kd are engaged in supporting the future of this game, as a result we often play very nice and have developed good relations with many kds in our tier range. We also switch our theme each age, so we have a good idea about who are good people, even if we are an unknown quantity. In the gaming world, we are a very small community. Even if in game we disagree with methodology, let us be as mature as i'm sure our age would indicate in this forum.

    I have my 12 year old playing with us, and although he was upset his elf(highest wpa in our kd) being totally destroyed by a kd full of rogues with assassinate wizards. I think it facilitates learning to throttle your emotional responses. Also, without a CF, he would have sent a drake on them yesterday lol(We still have work to do on the emotional thing). The take away for us needs to be not to enable such a kd the opportunity to hurt us with anything other than generals.

    Best thing for me in the interaction was picking up on why the off and def looked so poor. I was amazed by how many thieves each province had. Our best thief had 2k less thieves than 10 of their provinces. It was apparent they were concerned that we would expose all their thieves before things got going,and I suspect that motivated their actions.

    This is all over now, age end is upon us. We lost one long time player because of how this unfolded, and mostly because we did not war them. I want our kd to improve, and giving ops to a kd full of rogues is not tactical. In the modern game where wave frequency are so greatly reduced, should the inmates be encouraged to run the asylum, or should the education of tactical play be encouraged?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naimadally View Post

    I've been in the game long enough to realise this isn't the greatest crime ever committed. We did have a war agreed with 4:1. I'm not sure on all the timelines.

    As per the messages posted earlier, I did defer to the monarch to ensure no confusion. No pre war ops against a kd filled with 8 tpa raw rogues is not something our kd understood the implications of, save for a few of us.

    The retals by our kd were STUPID. We should have op'd them for a few days. It was obvious Xian and another dorf was temp inactive, and Xian was perm inactive. Their activity was low. My opinion on it was as follows:
    After 2-3 days of one sided ops, we would have been in a good spot. Identifying who their inactives were, we would have been in a good spot. However, I did not want to reward someone for forcing us into a war, and I did not want to reward our noobs for acting outside of posted RC.

    I have access to multiple messages, including our sub declining war on Game Date March 1 of YR10 Real Date Wed, 17 Jan at 18:27 GMT+00:00, and incoming messages from Oyster requesting specific start time and no ops(twice), and on 2 occasions the sub redirecting Oyster to the Monarch.

    Leadership in our kd are engaged in supporting the future of this game, as a result we often play very nice and have developed good relations with many kds in our tier range. We also switch our theme each age, so we have a good idea about who are good people, even if we are an unknown quantity. In the gaming world, we are a very small community. Even if in game we disagree with methodology, let us be as mature as i'm sure our age would indicate in this forum.

    I have my 12 year old playing with us, and although he was upset his elf(highest wpa in our kd) being totally destroyed by a kd full of rogues with assassinate wizards. I think it facilitates learning to throttle your emotional responses. Also, without a CF, he would have sent a drake on them yesterday lol(We still have work to do on the emotional thing). The take away for us needs to be not to enable such a kd the opportunity to hurt us with anything other than generals.

    Best thing for me in the interaction was picking up on why the off and def looked so poor. I was amazed by how many thieves each province had. Our best thief had 2k less thieves than 10 of their provinces. It was apparent they were concerned that we would expose all their thieves before things got going,and I suspect that motivated their actions.

    This is all over now, age end is upon us. We lost one long time player because of how this unfolded, and mostly because we did not war them. I want our kd to improve, and giving ops to a kd full of rogues is not tactical. In the modern game where wave frequency are so greatly reduced, should the inmates be encouraged to run the asylum, or should the education of tactical play be encouraged?
    We told you that we had 2 in VM that would be staying there and you guys agreed it was a fair match. The 3rd guy who just disappeared I didn't even know about, and actually would have given you an advantage.

    The no pre war ops was meant as an incentive to you, not to us. Your 2 or 3 mystics would not have been able to ET all our 3-6 wpa rogues before we robbed all your runes, gc, and horses. Proposed terms are exactly that, a proposal which you are free to decline/debate/modify. We were open to multiple start dates but had hoped you would stray from your demand of only the 4th. The reason given for declining had nothing to do with start date anyway.

    As for the AW, one of your mystics had 2tpa and no WT, and the other was targeted because it was the prov doing the majority of the ops.


    Regardless of all that took place, the reason for the wave was for the complete lack of respect shown by your monarch in proposing a date then disappearing for 18hrs while we converted then basically saying "Lol we changed our minds." We planned to CF after the first wave, but once again your monarch went off. He proposed and withdrew the CF offer over and over again while sending an obviously inappropriate message. Our monarch wanted to hit you guys until EOA for it, but I didn't want to punish a whole KD for their inexperienced monarch's actions.

  13. #28
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    "Game Date March 1 of YR10
    Real Date Wed, 17 Jan at 18:27 GMT+00:00
    Sender
    Recipient Viscount Big Bull the Rogue of Rocky Mountain Oyster (7:16)
    Subject Re:War?

    The Monarch is looking to take up another offer and looking to start war in the next 36 hours. THanks for your offer."

    I'm being told the sent item above is accurate. The hits started more than 48 hours later on May 6th. CF offer was made on May 7th and remained in place every tick. On May 11th the CF was updated 4 times.

  14. #29
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    June 10 of YR10 Camelot_WAR agreed (4:1) has begun a Gold Dragon project against us!

    This was the agreed war. Drakes 28 hours after you waved us.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naimadally View Post
    "Game Date March 1 of YR10
    Real Date Wed, 17 Jan at 18:27 GMT+00:00
    Sender
    Recipient Viscount Big Bull the Rogue of Rocky Mountain Oyster (7:16)
    Subject Re:War?

    The Monarch is looking to take up another offer and looking to start war in the next 36 hours. THanks for your offer."

    I'm being told the sent item above is accurate. The hits started more than 48 hours later on May 6th. CF offer was made on May 7th and remained in place every tick. On May 11th the CF was updated 4 times.
    That is accurate yes. But 11hrs later your monarch bailed on that war offer to take ours, then made another war agreement with 4:1 to bail on us, then didn't follow through with that either? I think you can see where the problem lies.




    Game DateMarch 15 of YR10
    Real DateThu, 18 Jan at 08:54 GMT+00:00
    SenderThe Conniving King Loki of Jean-Luc Picard (4:18)
    RecipientViscount Big Bull the Rogue of Rocky Mountain Oyster (7:16)
    SubjectRe:War?

    Lol yeah he confused things. I was a little busy with work and reading back I think they went back and forth 3 times haha. Ultimately the other offer proved to be tipped their way a little to much for our liking :P

    We were thinking an April 4th war start date, though I realize now that that is only 12 hours away, so not starting then is not a deal breaker for us

    > Viscount Big Bull the Rogue of Rocky Mountain Oyster (7:16) said: > >

    Unless I misread his message I think he declined saying you had another offer? I sent him some proposed terms, if you guys want to get together and let me know for sure one way or the other that would be good. We just need time to switch builds and wake everyone up. > >>

    The Conniving King Loki of Jean-Luc Picard (4:18) said: >> >>
    I think my Steward has been in talks with you guys, I'm pretty sure we'd be up for it

    > Viscount Big Bull the Rogue of Rocky Mountain Oyster (7:16) said: >> > >> >
    Hey, wondering if you guys would be interested in setting up a War. We have 2 provs in vacation mode so it looks to be a pretty even match. We've been getting beat on since before Christmas so are hoping to get a war before eoa to get people back in to the game.

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