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Thread: Guilds, BE, Guild Effectiveness, and Spell Durations...

  1. #1
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    Guilds, BE, Guild Effectiveness, and Spell Durations...

    ... and Guilds.

    Okay, so what the heck eh?

    How do you get max durations?

    - Utopia will make duration spells last longer based on your guild % (both offensive spells and self-spells).
    - However, there is a maximum effect to this increase, and that is reached at 20% guilds.

    These two statements are true I'm pretty sure.

    Now for the stuff I'm not so sure about...

    If you are at less than 100% BE it becomes impossible to reach the maximum effect, building 20% guilds will be *your* maximum effect but it will not be the maximum allowed by the game. Even if you overbuild your guilds to compensate for BE, the overbuild will have no effect at all. All (edit: not all, but guilds? yes?) the buildings work this way in regards to BE under 100%.

    These are all true right? So far so good? So moving on...

    On the flip-side, if your BE% is over 100% you can achieve maximum duration with less than 20% guilds. So if you had 120% BE, you could achieve maximum duration with 16.66% Guilds.

    Also, if you are a running a persona with a Guild Effectiveness bonus, that *directly* affects this. So if you have 100% BE and are a heretic you can achieve maximum duration with 10% guilds. If you are a mystic you can achieve maximum duration with 6.66% guilds (at 100% BE).

    So if you are a Mystic with 120% BE do you achieve max durations at 5.55% guilds?

    Where did I go wrong? :\
    Last edited by Wolzly; 29-01-2018 at 07:46.

  2. #2
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    If I've got this right, guilds are not affected by BE.

    If they were affected by BE, logically you should be able to overbuild them to get 20% effective guilds.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    If I've got this right, guilds are not affected by BE.

    If they were affected by BE, logically you should be able to overbuild them to get 20% effective guilds.
    iirc, Wizards generation is flat rate and immune to BE and the spell success/duration is effected by BE.
    Retired at one time but no longer retired.

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    You're incorrect in thinking that less than 100% BE will prevent you from getting maximum duration. you could just build 50% guilds and always have maximum duration (too high i know, but just for example).

    personalities with +% guild effect can build less guilds and still have maximum duration. for example a paladin (with 100% guild effect) can build 10% guilds and have maximum duration as if he had 20% guilds. BE would also modify this.

    hope that clears the mechanics up for you.

  5. #5
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    "You're incorrect in thinking that less than 100% BE will prevent you from getting maximum duration. you could just build 50% guilds and always have maximum duration (too high i know, but just for example)."

    This is one of my major concerns, are you sure? Because I'm fairly certain that if you have less than 100% BE you cannot max out effects of Thieves' Dens, even with 100% TDs. Why would guilds behave differently?

    I think the only way they behave differently is that there is no 'read-out' in the internal affairs advisor to tell you when your 'next guild' would provide zero effect (but thieves' dens do). Add into that the rng nature of spell duration and you have a perfect recipe for false conclusions.
    Last edited by Wolzly; 30-01-2018 at 06:31.

  6. #6
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    TDs cap out below max effect not due to a BE limit, but because the DBE curve has a maximum at 50% built. No matter what BE, the 51st % of a DBE building will provide negative effect, lowering the total. (It just is hidden behind the separate check for the max value if BE is at or above 100%.)

    Guilds aren't DBE - building more guilds doesn't lower their effectiveness. They are much more like farms, a flat rate building, which is then impacted by BE. The 20% check is elsewhere/different, not a "natural" limit from DBE because DBE doesn't apply here.


    Sounds like the wiz production behaves as a capacity building, no BE at all - similar to stables. I wonder what you call that "capacity" though - "wizard per hours"? So each guild has .02 (or whatever it is) "w/h" it can "hold"? This is at least pretty simple in what we care about, and only is confusing on names.
    it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)

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  7. #7
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    Thank-you for the explanation Ethan, I hadn't considered that Guilds are not a DBE affected building (massive oversight on my part).

  8. #8
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    My first post was correct. Guilds are not affected by BE for any purpose.

    Refer to Bishop's confirmation here: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ic-affect-them

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    My first post was correct. Guilds are not affected by BE for any purpose.

    Refer to Bishop's confirmation here: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ic-affect-them
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Age 68: Guilds: Unaffected by BE for the purposes of calculating spell duration.
    It seems that guilds are only not affected for the specific purpose of calculating spell durations, not for *any* purpose.

  10. #10
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    Oh christ....

    Welp...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyB View Post
    It seems that guilds are only not affected for the specific purpose of calculating spell durations, not for *any* purpose.
    Wizz training is also not affected by BE. You can check this easily on your own province once you have enough guilds to get past rounding issues.

    Presumably age 68 was phrased in that way because it was already the case that BE didn't affect wizz production.

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