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Thread: Issue with Science networth

  1. #1
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    Issue with Science networth

    Science Networth is calculated by:
    2.6gc * Sci hours accumulated

    A maxed out professor scientist adds 624gc to your networth.
    So causes a huge issue for small provinces with many scientists:
    A province of size 624 acres will gain 200 nwp/a from having 200 scientists professors.
    A province of size 6,240 acres will gain 20 nwp/a from having 200 scientists professors.

    I believe the way that science networth is calculated does not correctly reflect the strength of the province -
    Science adds a proportionally large networth value as the province grows smaller
    Unfortunately, Sciences have the same effect on the province, regardless of province size.

    I suggest that the science networth formula be changed to have the same increase in networth per acre, regardless of size.

  2. #2
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    I agree, I heavily pushed for sci early this age just to find out it did more harm than good since the NW per maxed proff is to high when you are small in acres. I calculated that close to 40% of my NW was just from sci and finaly decided to rearange the scientists which didnt feel so good.

    I also recommend a base NW value so rearanging isnt the optimal solution.

    Sci NW = acre/5 + day of experience*acre/500 or similar.

  3. #3
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    I guess if you wanna lurk the bottom for science there is a price to be paid? More than one mechanic exists in this game in order to encourage growth (to varying degrees of effectiveness)

    Why should a newly created province have more or less the same NW as a several week old province, loaded with free science?

  4. #4
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    Yes but there's nothing stopping the lurking.

    I know of at least one kingdom that had 6+ players who spent the first two weeks doing just that.

    The build:
    - Very high raw tpa (5+)
    - Landdef
    - Sub-starting land, inactive level nw

    The play:
    - 4x abducts twice a day, 2 into one kingdom 2 into another to avoid giving ops
    - create your own inactives if you have trouble finding legit ones
    - move scientists around to prevent nw from accumulating

    I think it's an interesting play. Most people will give up on trying to get intel on them due to the tpa, especially a SoS which is the one they should be afraid of. Even if you figure out what they are doing the ones doing it are too low in nw to actually capitalize off them through abducts.

    They have moved passed the strategy now and are growing / warring now.

    I just wanted to illustrate that if the intent is to encourage growth (and I think that is a legitimate goal), it doesn't actually work in this case.

    Also, i think it is problematic to make science better gained later than simply allowing a choice of timing.

    I think starting the age getting science is a good idea, I also think starting the age warring is a good idea. Choice is good.

    But if science is nwpa heavy at low acres, it makes that choice a little less of a choice and more of a rule.

    ... but again, it is 100% possible to work around that if you want, so what I'm saying is that the current setup hurts honest play (pumping sci while fending off the vultures) while still allowing for sneaky exploits (which stagnate the game) if the player chooses.

  5. #5
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    We could increase the base scientist nw to partly fix the reassigning issue. Although that probably makes OP's issue worse (but i am not convinced that is an issue).

  6. #6
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    Going for sci early in the age does morph your nwpa insanely, how you choose to obtain sci throughout the age is entirely optional/strategic/tactical etc, be it early on or mid age or whatever, those choosing to acquire good sci early in the age are indirectly punished with huge nwpa relative to their actual size, I too had to reassign to drop my insane nwpa due to nw of profs.

    And when you get chained you suddenly become an insanely juicy abduct target and can potentially lose a huge chunk of sci which doesn't make sense to me.

    I don't have a solution but I do think some more attention is needed to improve sci as it's still not perfect.

  7. #7
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    Risk vs Reward is good.
    Promoting growth is good.

    NW shaping is bad though, right?
    Isn't being able to reset all tists and drop nw on demand a bad thing?

    As for the sci being a liability when chained, I find the opposite. I find having that 'untouchable' networth means that you can't be pushed out of networth range. If you get abducted you went too low on def (landdef is never a good idea imo). If they do go for abducts you should be able to regain land and train back into fighting shape. It's definitely been on my mind though to try and abduct landdef targets in war ;P

    Edit: also, starting tists should start *unassigned* so that inactives/farms are not such valuable abduct farms early age. I know there is no way to have unassigned tists currently, but there should be.
    Last edited by Wolzly; 13-03-2018 at 19:34.

  8. #8
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    I rather like how easy it is to spot science heavy provinces, if someone abducts on you with anon and their kingdom has a 500 acre province on 350nw/acre it is easy to determine who to target on your retal. Growth alone can be bad, but science alone is definally bad as well.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolzly View Post
    Edit: also, starting tists should start *unassigned* so that inactives/farms are not such valuable abduct farms early age. I know there is no way to have unassigned tists currently, but there should be.
    I really like the idea of starting the age with unassigned scientists, so everyone is forced to assign them during freeze time during start of age or during protection after age starts, which would also eliminate the problem of bot/script/farm/inactive provs because the only way to assign them is to physically log into the account.

    The only problem I see is with new players/noobs/old timers coming back to game and starting a new prov and not realising they have to assign their scientists, so maybe some kind of in-game notification to highlight that their scientists are unassigned.

    Unassigned scientists also forces people to be tactical with where they place them which to be fair should be optional but at least this would solve some issues of cheating in the game with regards to science.

  10. #10
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    if they are unassigned then they should still be providing nw otherwise we are making nw manipulation easier

  11. #11
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    Couldnt you inverse the net progression? so that a professor provides a lower overalll contribution to net than a novice?
    This way if you keep resetting scientists your net would be higher and letting them become full proffesors would lower your net.
    The only issue i see with this one would be be population science... in which case it would be canceling out any rise in net from the increased population vs. lower net professors.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris121 View Post
    if they are unassigned then they should still be providing nw otherwise we are making nw manipulation easier
    Yes, good point I also agree they shouldn't be 0 nw otherwise this opens up all sorts of scenarios of nw manipulation.

  13. #13
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    Just wanted to bump this thread again since changes are coming up.

    Issue:
    Science gives a flat networth bonus - roughly 125,000 nw for 200 maxed scientists.

    On small provinces with 400 acres, the networth difference for someone with 0 sciences, and someone with 200 sciences might be a 200% in networth difference on the same land size.
    On big provinces with 4000 acres, the networth difference for someone with 0 sciences, and someone with 200 sciences might be 5% in networth.

    I don't think the current method for calculating networth for scientists correctly reflects the province strength.

  14. #14
    Postaholic Ovenmitt's Avatar
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    bring back books.
    -- Freedom Valley - Cartoon Networth - Harsh Cheeses - HaLL of FORCE - The Fantastic Trollfags - Polar Bears - Simians - Pew Pew - RoO - Mango Unchained - RoO

  15. #15
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    I totally agree with the ovenmitt. Bring back the books into the game. I've had several instances this age where I have maxed out a sci, and had lots of money to previously buy books, but I have either spent it on higher wages, aided it away, or I have been plundered for the excess gold.

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