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Thread: Avian pure attacker war build

  1. #1
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    Avian pure attacker war build

    Just wondering what an overall basic avian/warrior war build should be.

    Should i be running homes? Should i skip homes and run something like;

    8%farms
    10%banks
    15%tg
    25%gs
    10%guilds
    5%towers
    15%wts
    10%hosp
    2%dung

  2. #2
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    depends what you want to do!

    i would dump the banks entirely, 'pure' attacker should preclude use of banks in war, and at least 5% of the GS

    i would bump the towers up to 10% and hosps to 20% with those acres...

    REALLY i would dump all the GS, but they can be used of course, this is just my preference... i would look something more like this;

    20% hospitals
    20% training grounds
    20% watch towers
    15% guilds
    15% towers
    10% farms

    with high T/W counts, and 'suicide' off:def ratio (>3:1)

  3. #3
    Sir Postalot Pillz's Avatar
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    Get production science maxed. Your rune supply is vital because you're going to need runes for bl & fanat often, least in war. Will also save you on farm space.

    Otherwise, not sure why you'd run Warrior over undead or war hero. Without any loss mitigation from ud or hope of regaining elites as wh, I'd imagine hosps are more vital than gs, especially if you intend to use bl often. Personally I like to Bg all my randoms and use bl just to be a prick.


    Also not sure but I think Stables would offer greater off than Tgs would since they're unaffected by be and you'll already have like 150% - 170% ome with fanat/bl and decent war sci. As Warrior it is advantageous to go beyond cap in war sci as well. Especially if you're able to send out consistently.

    Would also say wts are only situational, ie: wouldn't run them oow unless you have large gc stacks to protect. In war it'd depend on if you have a lot of t/ms to deal with and where you sit in your kd spread imo

    Edit: wh also allows for war spoils, which can result in a better economy for you while you whore especially with your br bonus. But you're already Warrior so oh wells
    Last edited by Pillz; 11-04-2018 at 19:47.

  4. #4
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    can birds use horsies these days? and ya i would generally prefer a WH or Undead for Avian as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillz View Post
    Get production science maxed. Your rune supply is vital because you're going to need runes for bl & fanat often, least in war. Will also save you on farm space.

    Otherwise, not sure why you'd run Warrior over undead or war hero. Without any loss mitigation from ud or hope of regaining elites as wh, I'd imagine hosps are more vital than gs, especially if you intend to use bl often. Personally I like to Bg all my randoms and use bl just to be a prick.


    Also not sure but I think Stables would offer greater off than Tgs would since they're unaffected by be and you'll already have like 150% - 170% ome with fanat/bl and decent war sci. As Warrior it is advantageous to go beyond cap in war sci as well. Especially if you're able to send out consistently.

    Would also say wts are only situational, ie: wouldn't run them oow unless you have large gc stacks to protect. In war it'd depend on if you have a lot of t/ms to deal with and where you sit in your kd spread imo

    Edit: wh also allows for war spoils, which can result in a better economy for you while you whore especially with your br bonus. But you're already Warrior so oh wells
    Went warrior over wh and undead for the added ome. Was avian wh last age when they also had the +5% land gain, or whatever it was.
    Also avian cant use stables so thats out of the pic.
    Our kd runs gs on all attackers, i also feel, since i always get chained in the first day of war that gs helps to eat some more hits. I just dont know what the most optimal %of gs are. Whats overkill and whats not.

    To me gs are needed since avian have a -gains. So im getting less land from my attacks. Gs help to retain some of that land i have.
    Last edited by Horus85; 11-04-2018 at 22:36.

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    90%of the time i played as avian/cleric, so yea i did look at avian undead, but i went with warrior for the ome bonus and the bloodlust spell. I figured bl + fan and the +15% ome would be better then the -33% losses.

  7. #7
    Sir Postalot Pillz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    can birds use horsies these days? and ya i would generally prefer a WH or Undead for Avian as well
    **** =\

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horus85 View Post
    90%of the time i played as avian/cleric, so yea i did look at avian undead, but i went with warrior for the ome bonus and the bloodlust spell. I figured bl + fan and the +15% ome would be better then the -33% losses.
    For personality, most cases, I just look at how easily each benefit can be replicated with buildings.

    I.e. is the percentage of hospitals needed to get 33% losses higher or lower than the percentage of TGs (and extra Forts+hospitals to cancel out BL+Fan) to get the +15%OME+14%(BL+Fan).

    I think the attacker personalities boosters can be pretty close looking through that lens, (i.e. Tactician = ~10% rax + 10-15% WT (CS), Undead = ~15% hospitals, Warrior = ~20-25% TGs. I think Undead is a little weaker in comparison, giving ~15% land worth of reduced losses (and only on offense), vs the 20-25% land saved by Warrior and Tact.

    After that it's just deciding either
    1) You want to push something to its extremes, i.e. maximum OME no matter what the cost - Then Warrior is best (higher OME functions kind of like Undead - losses - if you have +30% ome, you can send 30% less troops, suffering 30% less casualties). Actually from pure value - Warrior is probably the best this age. Or for example, you want to push attack speed to the max, you'll want to combine with tact, to get over and above what you can achieve with buildings.

    2) Whether the "Secondary benefits" are worth it - i.e. easy intel on tacts (stops you degrading tpa over time too), the Plague (best if you either have a whole KD of undead, or paired with paladins).

    3) And in real life, I think, which benefits you prize more than others. When you're chianed or FBed, although you can technically replace a benefit with buildings, that tends to go away. So, considering you're chained/Fbed out, do you prefer the ability to still defend against thief ops (CS) and attack fast (tact), or to be more difficult to wear down remaining offense (undead), or just retain max offense as long as possible (warrior).

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    Quote Originally Posted by changeling View Post
    For personality, most cases, I just look at how easily each benefit can be replicated with buildings.

    I.e. is the percentage of hospitals needed to get 33% losses higher or lower than the percentage of TGs (and extra Forts+hospitals to cancel out BL+Fan) to get the +15%OME+14%(BL+Fan).

    I think the attacker personalities boosters can be pretty close looking through that lens, (i.e. Tactician = ~10% rax + 10-15% WT (CS), Undead = ~15% hospitals, Warrior = ~20-25% TGs. I think Undead is a little weaker in comparison, giving ~15% land worth of reduced losses (and only on offense), vs the 20-25% land saved by Warrior and Tact.

    After that it's just deciding either
    1) You want to push something to its extremes, i.e. maximum OME no matter what the cost - Then Warrior is best (higher OME functions kind of like Undead - losses - if you have +30% ome, you can send 30% less troops, suffering 30% less casualties). Actually from pure value - Warrior is probably the best this age. Or for example, you want to push attack speed to the max, you'll want to combine with tact, to get over and above what you can achieve with buildings.

    2) Whether the "Secondary benefits" are worth it - i.e. easy intel on tacts (stops you degrading tpa over time too), the Plague (best if you either have a whole KD of undead, or paired with paladins).

    3) And in real life, I think, which benefits you prize more than others. When you're chianed or FBed, although you can technically replace a benefit with buildings, that tends to go away. So, considering you're chained/Fbed out, do you prefer the ability to still defend against thief ops (CS) and attack fast (tact), or to be more difficult to wear down remaining offense (undead), or just retain max offense as long as possible (warrior).
    I look at it the same in regards to what building space can i save on when picking my personality. For me avain tact is over kill. That 30 to 40 min less attack time i get isnt woth it to me tbh. Cs is nice but not enough to validate tact for me(Like undead tact was). In war avian already has about 7.5 attk time plus we normally start war with godspeed. So it seems unwarranted.

    My next thought was, since avian cant use horses, thats less offensive power. Warrior helps to negate some of that. While undeads -30% offensive losses are nice, I feel its unneeded.
    With only 12%hosp @90%BE that i have now, its a -20% losses on both o/d.

    So i figured while in war, my tg and warriors bonus of +15% ome keeps me sustained as well/if not more then undead. While i wont use bl and fan every attack, it does help to push a few more offensive points on my target. I dont build forts either, unless for some crazy reason im left unchecked with dspecs training and I can make it so im not able to be double tapped.(never happens, lol). When i do cast bl fan, i make my hits then ill usally cast mp and gp. It doesnt help much but it does help a little bit.
    Last edited by Horus85; 11-04-2018 at 22:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    depends what you want to do!

    i would dump the banks entirely, 'pure' attacker should preclude use of banks in war, and at least 5% of the GS

    i would bump the towers up to 10% and hosps to 20% with those acres...

    REALLY i would dump all the GS, but they can be used of course, this is just my preference... i would look something more like this;

    20% hospitals
    20% training grounds
    20% watch towers
    15% guilds
    15% towers
    10% farms

    with high T/W counts, and 'suicide' off:def ratio (>3:1)
    20% tgs yield about 20-22% ome bonus vs 15%tgs around 17% bonus(with avg/good BE) is that worth the added 5% land?
    What does 20% hosp yield on losses? Ive never ran 20%hosp before. I had always played cleric so i went without or about 8%.

  11. #11
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    -33% losses at 70% BE for the 20% hosps.

    maybe the extra 5% tg could be use somewhere else, but where you gonna get value from 5%, dungeons i guess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    -33% losses at 70% BE for the 20% hosps.

    maybe the extra 5% tg could be use somewhere else, but where you gonna get value from 5%, dungeons i guess?
    Yea thats very true. Ill have to try out 20% hosp. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    depends what you want to do!

    i would dump the banks entirely, 'pure' attacker should preclude use of banks in war, and at least 5% of the GS

    i would bump the towers up to 10% and hosps to 20% with those acres...

    REALLY i would dump all the GS, but they can be used of course, this is just my preference... i would look something more like this;

    20% hospitals
    20% training grounds
    20% watch towers
    15% guilds
    15% towers
    10% farms

    with high T/W counts, and 'suicide' off:def ratio (>3:1)
    I always see people in the forums say pure attackers dont need banks, my question is, how do you sustain your econ and military w/o banks?

    I found that when chained its easier to just get some aid from your kd mates the tick before your army gets home or to steal gc before hand. But say you are holding your land or even growing in war, wouldnt you want those banks to help speed up your def or off depending on the situation? Even to help out other chained attackers?

    I feel i always need gc in war and thats with running banks and even homes since our king and the majority of my kd thinks that homes are a must have on not only tms but attackers.

    I also understand that you use build and spec credits, so that helps to not use banks, but what about wages?

  14. #14
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    The general concept is that training prior to war is superior to trying to train during war when you should be doing other things (like warring). If you -have- to train during war due to time/resource constraints, then do so but it definitely shouldn't be a goal.
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    Avian/Paladin worked great for me.

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