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Thread: Age 76 Proposed Changes Feedback

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija View Post
    Base attack time was always 16h. Don't exaggerate. With Godspeed/Tact you are back to 12h cycles like it used to be?
    16 hours was base attack time out of war, where there is no risk of being chained army home (and less at stake).

    And yes, saying "Godspeed/Tact" gets back to 12 h doesn't solve the problem, restricts choice for players in forcing anyone who wants to have a schedule that fits with a standard work schedule to always run the same ritual and pick the same tactician diminishes choice in the game.

  2. #62
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    Am I the only one who thinks t/ms are actually kinda screwed (but not that much)? It will be more than ever essential for them to outgrow the rest of the kd (due to nw based gains), but their main way of growing (exploring in pwcf) has been made prohibitively expensive in addition to the more expensive elites

  3. #63
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    Yes, toolian, you are the only one who thinks T/Ms are screwed with these changes.

  4. #64
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    I don't think there was a ton of exploring in EOWCF.

    That said, I think that focusing just from an raw number attacker perspective on Faeries make them seem like they got buffed, but taking a more holistic note - there are actually more ways to take down a Faery than before.

    Introduction of Halflings with insane potential TPA - means Faeries of all t/m personalities are now very vulnerable to take down by other T/Ms (a Faery rogue could fight off a Bocan rogue easily, but next age can be taken down by a Halfling Rogue).

    The buff to DEs will lead to more DEs around, which opens up nightmare potential more than in prior ages (along with the boost to WPA training).

    From the attacker perspective, raw breaking power of attackers is lower with the proposed ages, but that's after several consecutive ages where T/M defense has been significantly reduced vs. attacker offense, and we were seeing attackers able to easily get 2-3X more OPA than max Faery DPA. Even with the new numbers, an equal sized Dryad could still easily break a Faery 2X. Other changes also have opened up a lot more opportunities to take out faeries. The increased conquest gains + Orc +25% gains make conquesting a more viable option than ever (and the boosts to undead and paladin help that). The lack of GBP from raze-bouncing (and again the undead/paladin boosts) make razebouncing a faery down a lot easier.

    Balance isn't just about the two numbers after "Elite", but a sum of all the personalities, mechanics changes (As well as accrued changes from prior ages). Taken all together, T/Ms are not looking much stronger with the proposed changes.

  5. #65
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    Anything about taking down a Faery that involves attacks will do so at -33% while Faeries still do full damage to attackers. I'm not sure many of you understand the impact that -33% damage from attackers is going to have.

  6. #66
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    The big problem with the attack times is that it's a huge nerf to some races, and a huge advantage to others.
    Attack time bonuses/penalties scale with the base attack time...so dryads with their increased time are affected much more on a 16 hour schedule than they are a 12 hour...while avians benefit more from their bonus if the attack time is 16 than they do if it's at 12.

    And dryads already got hit hard with the nerf-bat.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by changeling View Post
    I think you're missing the point of the arguments against the attack time change. It's not the total time that matters, but when that time occurs.

    Think of it this way, your standard work day might be 9 to 5 right, 8 hours. Great. Do you prefer that? Or 7 hours total, but you need to show up to work from: 7am-8am, 11am-1pm, 3pm-4pm, 6pm-7pm, 10pm-11pm, then again from 3am-4am.

    You sacrifice more actual personal time to compete in Uto wars if you have an inconsistent schedule. I.e. with 12 hour attack times, you can attack in the morning before work at 8am, then again in the evening after dinner at 8pm, day in day out. Nice and easy to manage around your schedule. With 16 hours, you start out at 8am, then have to attack again at midnight, then you need to take a break in the middle of the work day at 4pm. If you actually have to do work at 4pm and can't make it for the tick (and you dont get destroyed army home), then suddenly with your 5:30 pm attack time, you're now stuck waking up at 1:30 am, then you'll have problems the next day with your army returning at 9:30 am when you're at work as well.

    Basically, you're forcing every attacker who does not have the ability to stop and play utopia at any time during the work day without fail to compete in wars, to play either Tact or Avian (we all know that you can't rely on buildings in war). Forcing players into only 1 race and 1 personality would have an even greater impact on the game (as well as players who couldn't wake up for an attack at 3am because of the 16 hour attack times, get destroyed army home, and leave the game demoralized.
    IMHO this is a good explanation of the issue. Plus the people who like to have 9 hours sleep ;)

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilmington View Post
    Anything about taking down a Faery that involves attacks will do so at -33% while Faeries still do full damage to attackers. I'm not sure many of you understand the impact that -33% damage from attackers is going to have.
    You mean the attack time change? Yea, I'm just leaving that separate. I'm assuming that'll be fixed.

    If the attack times get changed back to 12, then Faeries aren't overpowered in these changes, and there are probably more ways to open them up with the changes as a whole (again, ignoring the 16 hour attack time in war too).

  9. #69
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    For attack times, you still have plenty of options that you can still use to get your attack times down if you want. Tee only reason you would still be at 16 during war is if you had chosen everything else but reduced attack time for ritual, race, personal, and buildings.

    Also, adding a free 80 cast ritual to be used for the loser of a war might help improve the war rate. Could also only post the wins a kingdom gets instead of the wins to total wars

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronnick View Post
    For attack times, you still have plenty of options that you can still use to get your attack times down if you want. Tee only reason you would still be at 16 during war is if you had chosen everything else but reduced attack time for ritual, race, personal, and buildings.

    Also, adding a free 80 cast ritual to be used for the loser of a war might help improve the war rate. Could also only post the wins a kingdom gets instead of the wins to total wars
    The point isn't that it's 16, it's that it's not 12. You need -25% attack time to get to 12, that's not coming from just ritual, buildings, race, or personality (none of those alone, and probably not even 2 combined, wil lget you there except Avian. It's basically a change that forces everyone to tailor every aspect of the build, race, personality and ritual, to fix something that is just a new added problem.

    Otherwise, if it's just say an attacker running a reasonable 10-15% raxes in war, you now get 14 hour attack times? So, your 8 am attack will get back at 10pm, great - then it'll be back at noon, ok still ok, then you're waking up at 2 am.


    Further, the attack time adjustments don't really work well with the 16 hour attack times either. You can -2 hours - as I said above, that gets you 14 hours - which leads to the same scheduling problems. You can +4 hours which will get you to 20....same problems...

    All in all, it's not whether are options to get to 12 hours if you want to, it's that if we want the game to retain appeal for casual players - the 12 hour attack time should be the default (as it is currently after a day of war, though I'd advocate making that from day 1, or just outside of war too). The players who are least well equipped to be able to tailor and calculate a precise build, ritual, etc. set up to get them to 12 ticks are also the ones most likely to drop out of the game if Utopia no longer works for their schedule.

    I'd say a large proportion, if not a majority of Utopia players today are not ones able to set alarms and wake up or play at odd hours. Utopia's player base, for the most part, isn't high school students and college students anymore who can do whatever. There's probably a lot of players who come back for nostalgia, but now have jobs and kids, (and hopefully more disposable income to spend on credits). They're game for playing utopia when they can log in once in the morning to attack before work, and then again in the evening and chill around.

    They probably won't if they start needing to set 2am alarms to attack, or have to rely on unreliable means to achieve a workable schedule (if you've never had a war where you have had no buildings built and your ritual abolished, you probably haven't warred much =P)

  11. #71
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    lol how is -25% not coming from rax+ritual, or perso+rax, or perso+ritual? with like 70% BE 15-20% rax and an overcast godspeed you are down to 12-12.5h, no problem... and u also have the option to choose avian, or tact, or both


    if you wanted to do it, max rax on any non tact non avian can get you to 10h attack times... do some math
    Last edited by RattleHead; 19-04-2018 at 17:58.

  12. #72
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    I just said, you won't get it from any one of those. You need at least 2 - and you're still talking about something more optimized than a casual player.

    As I said a casual player isn't getting an overcast godspeed (and that requires a KD-level decision).

    Either way, you're removing a lot of options from the game, and essentially forcing the majority of players who can only play with 12 hour attack times, to only pick 1/10 races, 1/9 personalities, and be in a KD where everyone agrees to only pick 1/5 rituals solely to fix this problem.

    Basically saying, well we have this great strategy game where half the fun is having all these races and personalities and inventive synergies and combinations you can get between them, oh and these new ritual things to add more spice. Oh unless any of you work in any normal jobs. In that case you get one choice.

    Kills off varierty, and drives off casual players.

    Either way, my point is just that it makes the game more difficult for casual players, which increases probability of player loss.

    Difficult attack times have long been recognized as an obstacle to retaining player base - that's the reason the game removed "fog", added the +- hours feature, even sitting to a degree.

    If you have an argument for how 16 hour attack times would not make things more difficult for casual players, please, let me know - and yes, attackers needing to run (and somehow keep) 50% rax in a war, or keep high rax and have a KD able and willing to keep up an over cast ritual 24/7 is not the answer.

  13. #73
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    Most people can't do max rax...ever. Compound that with land coming in to dilute your rax. Then, you have a swarm of UB T/Ms who know exactly how important those many rax are to you. You can't count on rax to do a lot. It's enough to make tac+Godspeed <12 hours, that's it

  14. #74
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    Then just take the base attack time down to 14, that still gives a lower time that you can reduce to 12 or lower in wars but it makes raxs and such actually something to consider

  15. #75
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    Maybe they need to reduce server load by giving people no reason to log in

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