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Thread: Honor system is poorly designed

  1. #1
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    Honor system is poorly designed

    Honor seems broken to me. As an attacker, even when my kds is winning wars I still bleed honor completely. All the honor in my kd and enemy kds get concentrated in the hands of a few tms. I'll lose like 10 honor when a rando steals some horses. I run a ****load of watch towers, decent tpa, and insanely high wpa, but I still can't keep any of the honor I have. Then I play as a TM and without any effort I can hit baron or count. How does that make any sense?

  2. #2
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    its a tricky system with lots of pitfalls, many suggestions have been made over the ages, but there doesnt seem to be much will to even adjust things, let alone do the overhaul thats likely needed.

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    it works the way it always has, true in war it is easier for t/m's who can not be broken to accumulate honor, but attacks stil makes much more, the trick is to get favorable trade of attacks. If you always hit up nw and get hit from a nw advantage yourself, you are more likely to come out ahead in honor trade. a simple 3-4 hits on a province 10-20% bigger can give as much as 3-400 honor points if done on a Baron, and it really only is in war that t/m's can gain honor as anyhing in normal and unfriendly gives less honor or none at all, attackers can gain honor outside war as well i they don't do anon attacks.

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    The problem isn't so much that you can't theoretically get honor as an attacker. It's that it pools in the tms. I mean yes you can play attacker, have a really tight strat, and work your way up to some honor. But take a glance at the closest faery your size. If they start raping you for honor with ops you think you can just retal them to get it back? They are sitting at like 350 nwpa with all elites. Totally untouchable with zero drawback. All they have to do is make it so when you fail an op, you lose a little bit of honor. It can't just be you gain honor if you complete an op and nothing happens when you fail one.

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    Have you ever seen how hard a t/m falls when attacked? it is near permanent dammage and they lose tons of honor due to high nw. There are only 3 ways of gaining honor, be unbreakable, make so many hits the opponent can not retal all, and pick god fights either up nw or up honor or both.

    If I was to change anything I believe honor gains from a province with GB protection should go down since it is bad target selection and bad target selection should not be rewarded.

    first war of the age we lost, I got chained and they tried a bunch of ops on me, I still got baron from constantly resetting scientists and thus hitting up nw the entire time vs people not employing this strategy, I was far to small for t/m's to take much honor, and the attackrs could not either, as Bocan/War hero it also turned out they had problems late chain due to me never dropping to land def because I constantly converted defensive elites and always was harder than their other chain targets to hit, thieve credits played a big role as well as I was having decent results ns'ing. Resetting scientists is not a foolproof method, it does have drawbacks, but atleast you will never be at 250 acres and 110k nw, several teammates got killed when they did not reset scientists when chained as I adviced in that same war thus allowing better gains and better gains of honor on them.

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    what do you mean resetting scientist?

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    change category on a regulair basis ensures it never get to professor, it is 630 gc or arround that for full professors, near nothing for a newly novice for half the effect and flat rate at that, meaning while twice the effect is worth it at say 2-3k acres it is dragging you down and hurting you at 500, if you have 120 scientists it adds more than 75k nw to your province no matter if at 3000 acres or 5 meaning a province at much more acres but no professors can still make optimal hits as far as honor is concerned, a bonus is that you naturally switch between several categories and experience various bonuses at various times which can work out well if you know what you are going to need in a few hours.

  8. #8
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    As an attacker you have to be really solid. When I play an honor attacker, mostly as WH, it works out. Though I've been in very horrible kingdoms where we had t/ms that wanted to be the biggest and have the most honor. And if I'm in the kingdom, people already know, I'm going to be the largest and most honorable province in the kingdom. And these players in the past have gotten upset because I make it impossible for their strategy to work and as a result I was ousted every time. If you want to be an attacker with lots of honor pick War Hero. Truth is if you're in a kingdom that has lot of prominent players that are t/ms than, from experience, they don't want their attackers to be gaining honor because that means they are keeping their land. The last time I played, more than 2 ages ago, I got to around 5k land and I was almost a count(War Hero). I only fought two wars with them. I didn't explore any and our king give up both wars. Then they kicked me out--saying I was a selfish player. I was getting to the point where I would be able to attack any player with full army and still be unbreakable vs. same net worth opponents. Had I got count, we pretty much would have been able to roll in on any kingdom take some land than leave. No one is going to mess with A War Hero Count that can attack the most heavily guarded province in their kingdom and still have enough def at home to force their strongest attacker to suicide(and suicide into war spoils). I'm also the first person to trigger an honor gain from an attack my province suffered. That's right under the right circumstances, I learned, one can gain honor even if the attacker was successful. That happened to me many time fighting with this kingdom. Read the section about war spoils. Back in the day people used to say it was an awful spell. With War spoils can up your networth so much that it makes the land that they would get from you a lot less. For example, say I was an 30mill networth attacker and I attack a 32.4mill networth t/m. That attack will bring the t/m province down to around 23mill networth. With your war spoils that land comes right to you can you're networth is going to go up by a few mill in net. You're now out of their range. War spoils is the strongest spell in the game. Also I did 32.4mill networth, as an example, for a reason. 32.4 mill is 8% of 30mill. Attacking a province 2-5% more networth will give you max gains. And after that the gains start to lower. However, if you attack someone 8% bigger in networth than you may trigger a supper max gain. Here are some of the things to consider for super max gains: if they are doing well in the war and have not been attacked. That's how I was able to get my honor I was targeting the other kingdom's t/ms and the province that were best guarded(and I was sending out my armies for the max amount of time--you get more honor for that too). In other words I was feeding off the honorable t/ms. It will be the only way you will be able to get lot of honor as an attacker as you grow in networth--I have found by experience. And by the time my army would get back my province would be drafted up and all drafted men would be trained and waiting. You'll figure it out. Keep at it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Mass View Post
    No one is going to mess with A War Hero Count that can attack the most heavily guarded province in their kingdom and still have enough def at home to force their strongest attacker to suicide(and suicide into war spoils).
    Thieves would destroy your Watchtowers, then your offernse gets NS'ed to a point where you can attack but cannot break the unbreakable enemy T/M, then you get fireballed down with Meteors 24/7. The result is a shell of a province. An acre pool for the enemy T/M should they need to counter a conquest run or just a better economy. Any organized kingdom would be happy to have a war against you.

  10. #10
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    Who is this guy even

  11. #11
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    Someone who says he hasnt really played in 2 years and isnt active enough to know we get activity bonues .Kinda sounds like something Vines would be saying as he has been posting that having alot of homes keeps you from getting the plague
    Last edited by Thunder TA; 19-06-2018 at 18:03.

    Monsters

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  12. #12
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    Don't fret, Blue Mass. I agree with you.

    Why? Even though everybody gave solid evidence otherwise?

    Because the faery tac is the wonkfest that currently defends any of the intense builds floating in Utopia.
    We shouldn't have to claim we have a faery tac in kingdom, it should be ubiquitous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owlshour View Post
    Honor seems broken to me. As an attacker, I bleed honor.
    Honor Question here...
    An Orc in my KD says he loses a small byte of Honor when a Fae casts a help spell on him.
    I have not checked this myself. Does the game see all these spells as attacks?
    They are listed under combat.
    Have Fun & Prosper

  14. #14
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Its not necessarily that its seen as an attack, but rather its a bit of a perk for paladins. there is honor exchanged for paladin selfies

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    Its not necessarily that its seen as an attack, but rather its a bit of a perk for paladins. there is honor exchanged for paladin selfies
    Faeries only now... Paladins can't cast on others anymore

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