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Thread: Age 77 REVISED Changes - Feedback and Suggestions

  1. #1
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    Age 77 REVISED Changes - Feedback and Suggestions

    REVISED Proposed changes are here!

    Please use this thread to provide feedback (or other suggestions) on the currently posted changes (keep an eye on the changelog at the bottom of the post for any changes that might be made to the revised proposed changes post).

    You can find the announcement here: Age 77 Revised Proposed Changes
    Last edited by DavidC; 11-07-2018 at 05:49.
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  2. #2
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    - rouge mystics heretics still broken with guild/science values (Befuddled devs with evil people whispering to them)
    - Avian still has the weakest military numbers on par with halfling (should be competitive)
    - Elf still has +35% wpa and almost the strongest raw military (should be weakest)

    Just at first glance you guys did not fix anything. Rouge/Mystic were fine with +1mana/stealth and extra ops they never needed more than that and they keep buffing them for some reason. I don't understand why avian attack times are considered so op, i'd rather you remove their ability to make barracks if thats the problem and keep them playable with decent numbers after that, i could use them if you gave them an 8-5 8-4 elite, still weak numbers on offence but you can use attack times strategically to defend when your getting chained. And What is it with you guys buffing mystics... Elf AND Mystic are just so broken. Revelations on the t/m personalities is broken, t/m's sit on max labs and it feels like you sacrifice nothing to do it.... so why do you give them revelations ontop of that? and ontop of THAT they need 1/2-1/3 the sage bonus as well from magic/theive science(+75% military science would be better than what the warrior personality now, and mystic gets much more than just that). ONTOP OF THAT theres the 100-200% bonus to their acres from guilds. ALL THEY EVER NEEDED WAS +1 mana/stealth and the ops to be played.

    The guild bonus alone on heretic/rouge/mystic is more than enough to garuntee you max labs over the other specs, ontop of that you get revelations, ontop of that you get the best science bonuses... all while giving you the best wpa for almost no effort. these people are idiots.

    Heretic/rouge/mystic are supposed to be the farthest picks from attacker you can choose, but any kd with half a brain should see that they are the only viable choices. Whoever has had the dev's ear is just bad at being a t/m and has ruined this game slowly age after age.
    Last edited by Ganga; 12-07-2018 at 01:19.

  3. #3
    Regular Ryshad's Avatar
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    I see NM is in Heretic only?

    Wouldnt that make Mystics all but immune to NM an NM waves? I mean, it's possible but not practical for entry level players to NM a Mystic
    Everything in your province is peasant based

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    . ALL THEY EVER NEEDED WAS +1 mana/stealth and the ops to be played.
    when you need x3 the wpa or tpa to op someone u need the modifiers to have a real shot. Its the fact of how it scales.

    Put an orc at 300k nw 2 tpa, 2 wpa 5 ppa u get 281,129 offense

    w/out any "mods" the feary is going to need to run 6 tpa 6 wpa and pulls 213,243 def.

    No modifiers 281 off v 213 def seems fine but u push that orc to 3.33/3.33 and the feary has to go to 10/10 and u end up with 240,982 off v 112,355 def. and The t/m just has no real shot at fighting at all.

    When you add modifiers in the feary isn't going to magically lower their **** from 6/6 because heretic v rogue v msytic all get differnt modifiers and your trying to balance who can op who easily.

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    So your saying the science categories aren't balanced and need reworked to compare with people playing military focused science? I can landlust just fine as an orc attacker on pretty much anyone but mystics... and im not doing anything crazy with wpa or science. If your focus is wpa and science im sure your fine... ofcourse you shouldnt be able to cast magic on people focusing on their magic just like you dont attack t/m's cause they focus on defense. Just because your a mystic doesnt mean you need to be garunteed to get 100% success on your meteor showers on anyone not a t/m. Already attackers have to compete with your 200% guilds if an attacker can manage to compete with your 3x guilds shouldn't that be enough to spare him? I really doubt that if mystic only had +1mana and some spells that it would be played less than warrior sage tactician right now, and whats odd is attackers make up 20/25 of the current meta of a kingdom mystics make up 2-3/25 and yet they are all vastly underplayed in comparison. Mystics should be about 10% of the players base if they were on par and they are double what they'd be if they were balanced because they obviously stronger than they need to be.

    Get away from the idea that the mystic needs to be able to op everything and everybody with 100% success, and lean towards op as much as you can on who you can and balance how rewarding that is with attacking instead of turtling. If a mystic needs 2x+ the ability to cast magic than a warrior needs 2x+ the ability to attack people with army.... Or just play mystic to attack, you only lose 15% offence to a warrior and you gain so much more in other ways, Mystic only needs +15% wpa and its balanced enough.

    The science categories seem balanced to me, mages/rouges/heretics dont need +60-70%science if the categories are balanced and a warrior only needs 20%. Be a sage than if you need the wpa bonus for some reason, until there's 2-3 ages mystic and rouge aren't played because they are finally considered too weak... keep nerfing them.
    Last edited by Ganga; 11-07-2018 at 07:27.

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    I think you did a good job of picking up on things that were commented on in the feedback threads.

    Is Elf still OP when it got cut 1 on both def and leets? Still attractive but not as certain as before.
    Human looks comptetetive. Not sure it needs GP anymore, but it does make it slightly stronger than elf so maybe fine.

    Attacker personalities looks nice. WH +1 specs makes it interesting. Tact aswell, and Warrior with bloodlust makes sense.

    Revelations and science spawn rates is a tricky one. Sage labs bonus makes sense, it is a nice flexible bonus. Rev too? Just to get it on par with human spawn rate (+25% is alot) it might be needed. But Rev on TMs does not really make sense now when abduct is removed, as has been commented on.

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    not sure what u mean by balanced science. "caping" out science is something most do in all categories and in the tpa/wpa one ASAP. The point of what i posted is if an orc were to put "max" science and run a middling wpa you wont have a t/m oping them with any reliability. when you say you "land lust just fine" theres no way your talking about just fine unless you're chained on 5-6 raw. You are NOT lling with even 40-50% success if u run 2-3 raw wpa and 100% channeling science late age anyone that hasn't been massacred or aw'ed into the dust.

    It gets worse when u say compare feary rogue to feary mystic. you need x3 raw wpa/tpa to land MS and AW with any success. Your looking at both of those maxing t/m science because their goal is to op an attacker and each other. The mystic runs say 7.5 wpa 4.5 tpa, the rogue runes 4.5 wpa 7.5 tpa. Now sure they can easily ops using their specially into an attacker on say 2.5 wpa/tpa. Because 2.5*3=7.5. And they can op using their cross specialty into someone who didn't max out science or say grows big 1.5*3=4.5..without counting mods.

    But there is ZERO chance of that rogue oping the mystic or the mystic oping the rogue as 7.5/4.5=1.666....and thats simply not enough relative mod to be succesfull w/out the science mods. i.e. 7.5*1.75/4.5~~3

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    Just because im a warrior doesnt mean I 4x whoever i want, why does being a mystic mean you meteor shower with impunity. You picked mystic for the spell meteor showers, you really dont need anything more than that, the spell alone is enticing enough to get picked 2-3 times a kd which is what the meta kd asks its players to take. I don't know why mystic needs to be so strong attackers should want to pick it. As far as im concerned a warrior should have the same ability to meteor showers anyone as a mystic does give or take what 10% in training grounds is worth (thats what 5-7% land) if you value 5-7% land at all those mystic bonuses, power to you then nothing else i can say.


    imo access to the spell is worth 5-7% land on its own, bit of a sacrifice to the player but for the greater good of the kd.
    Last edited by Ganga; 11-07-2018 at 08:13.

  9. #9
    Postaholic DonJuan's Avatar
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    great changes

    looks good for a long-term set up for the game
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    What you're missing, and as Persain explained, WPA ops success isn't directly comparable to attacks.

    For a successful attack, you just need the same or slightly more than defense - then you get through.
    However, for difficult spells having the same or slightly more WPA doesn't mean probably won't get through at all (or have very low success rates) and you need to have 4X the WPA to realistically get through.

    So from your attacker perspective, imagine instead of what you currently have - You need to send 400% offense to have a 95% chance of winning (which actually, might be realistic - since you usually do want to have an overwhelming numbers advantage if you're attacking a fortified entrenched defender. If you're a 300k offense Orc, attacking a 200k defense opponent, you only have a 50% chance of winning, and if you have a 200k offense orc attacking a 200k defense opponent, you only have a 10% chance of succeeding. Suddenly a +75% bonus doesn't seem so great anymore does it?

    Not to mention the relative damage done, an attack wipes, what 6-7% of defense? 12% of acres?

    24 hours of MS probably only takes out 5-6%, so an average cast damages 1-2% of your military, 2-3X less damage, without any of the acre gain.


    If being a mystic means you shouldn't be able to MS with impunity, sure, as long as being an attacker means you can't attack with impunity, and you need 4X as much offense as the opponent you're attacking to do a trad.

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    You said it ops and attacks aren't comparable like that...

    But what we can see from how balance has been changing is that, 10% offense is worth 200% more guilds 75% more science, +20% more damage on spells, a larger spell book which includes the most powerfull spells in the game ms mf rev among others....

    All im saying is an attacker should have just as much ability to fireball someone as a mystic, and have just the same ability to gear his province to do so. All he is getting for picking warrior personality is 5-7% in land. It's a problem that its just flat out better to sacrifice that 5-7% in extra training grounds even as an attacker and pick mystic... there is just no reason not to. Somehow you guys got it in your head that you needed to be so much better at ops than someone who has 5% more training grounds and I don't understand it.

    A guy playing orc warrior will have 10% more offense and a guy playing orc mystic will have meteor showers in his book, that's a pretty close trade off right there... i dont know why the orc mystic needs much more than that.
    Last edited by Ganga; 11-07-2018 at 08:51.

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    Ganga...what your missing is this. Your standard orc lets say runs 12 leets 2 wpa 2 tpa 5 ppa 7.75 dspec/acre. 20 % TG 15% stables 17% hosptials 15% WT 5% farms 10% guilds 5% towers 10% barracks 3 % dungeons

    With all the mods to mystic your orc mystic to have a 70-80% chance at MSing the other orc he needs to run like 10 leets 4 wpa 2 tpa 5 ppa 7.75 dspec/acre. To be a successful caster your going to keep at 10% guilds due to "incoming" acres and want MIN 15% towers so u pull 5% stables/tg off your build.

    Now the "attacker orc" is warrior
    12 epa+12 horses/acre * 1.1 (bloodlust)*1.1 (warrior) * 1.03 (warrior science)*1.18 TG ==~~194 opa before base ME and wages

    The mystic orc is
    10 epa + 8 horses/acre *1.143 (TG)==~~124 opa before base ME and wages

    (194)/124=~~1.56

    So what your actually trading a little more land your trading more like 56% of your offense to get the ability to cast from mystic. Even if u went say orc undead/tact and lost the warrior bonus you'd be trade 124 for 155 or ~~26% of your offense. 26% offense plus building-less sustain+plauge or cs+free speed, is a pretty big thing to give up.
    Last edited by Persain; 11-07-2018 at 09:03.

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    No you didnt get that from PICKING mystic you did that through how you choose to run your province, it has nothing to do with personalty choice. I'm not following what your argument is, your argument is that if a warrior gets 5% more land in free training grounds you should be able to fireball tornado his ass as much as you want simply because you want mystic to be the better choice for an orc. If you think you need all those bonuses to get enough wpa to be able to cast your magic on people, you should play attacker and stop trying to ruin the game.
    Last edited by Ganga; 12-07-2018 at 01:00.

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    yea, actually you do, because the innate bonus's that mystic gives,

    200% more guilds 75% more science, +20% more damage on spells, a larger spell book


    Are USELESS if you cant use them. in which case you're comparison is trading 4-5% of your build away for litterally no gain since "all that good stuff" isn't actually going to be used.




    @davidC....also while i was doing all that math. Warrior+science+bloodlust omg, that might actually have a bit to much offense jeeze.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    No you didnt get that from PICKING mystic you did that through how you choose to run your province, it has nothing to do with personalty choice. I'm not following what your argument is, your argument is that if a warrior gets 5% more land in free training grounds you should be able to fireball tornado his ass as much as you want simply because you want mystic to be the better choice for an orc.
    ATM Persian is landing the better argument because he is backing it up with some fancy numbers. But I am intrigued by your idea of Orc Mystic :) or in general "why not pick tm pers with attacker race". Need some numbers to convince.

    There is a case for wanting to trade 194 opa to 124-130 opa (but with full science the diff increases), if you with that get the ability to use up your mana on fireballs or the like. But it is difficult to maintain, and just to have your runes not stolen.

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