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Thread: where be the power rankings?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    And orc gets ambushed for free and no one will ambush fae 6 ospec yet all the faeries will turtle.

    Trying my best to convince my current kingdom to let me attack as a faerie and they just won't budge, insisting I MUST turtle.


    P.S Possibly looking for ANOTHER kd before this age starts.
    The only reason it looks like a bad idea is that faery attacker is noticeable. In other words, the enemy thinks you're suiciding etc. Once everyone gets acclimated to a faery attacker the wow factor subsides. I was very fond of faery cleric but had success with faery sage as well.
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  2. #17
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    I dont know what you mean about suicide.... fae runs 1:1 and it beats orc on 11:6 AND 11:12 after you account for ambushes. Orcs only bonus is it's supposed to gain land on you... it doesn't AND fae gets bonus stealth which is great for attackers.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan View Post

    So in general, this is looking pretty similar to Persain's version.... Avian .... wondering if Persain didn't account.... halfer.
    ethan i do my stuff differently thus the different results. Below should address both

    Avain is garbage because i have innately built in stables enough to cover all offensive units. Since im running 2 tpa 2 wpa 5 ppa, 48 raw dpa, some homes, and max science i have people running 14-17.5 offensive units. The numbers i gave were for LATE age max sceince and whatnot ;) so when u factor in stables theres a huge bonus there.
    That is i choose some conditions for my post above, but my method has a ton of variables u can play with on the fly to see relative power and either a fixed land or a fixed nw to get the general sense of a prov


    As for halfer, both halfer and feary i had to adjust as i dont normally do those.
    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    The only reason it looks like a bad idea is that faery attacker is noticeable.
    I dont personally dont care who u are i dont run an offspec only army unless those offspecs have +mods to them because you can't survive when chained using offspecs. Typically you dont carry enough nw in offspecs to be able to topfeed post chain nor will u cary enough raw offense since a prov thats 100% offense on 6 points carries sooo much less than a prov that has 8 point offspecs.

    To that end though i @#$#@ up halfer and used 7 for offense instead of the 8 i should of with horses. i went back and adjusted it and halfer is the second best, so i much more closely match your results. (i dont put in tw and since my tpa is lower it makes sense my halfer would be worse)

  4. #19
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    Once your chained your less than 1% of the war effort, and regardless you guys run your chained provinces wrong as well. A fae can just keep his elites quad tap the other guys that have been chained and are on land defense and be full defense and only be able to be hit once.
    Last edited by Ganga; 15-07-2018 at 21:57.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    Once your chained your less than 1% of the war effort, and regardless you guys run your chained provinces wrong as well. A fae can just keep his elites quad tap the other guys that have been chained and are on land defense and be full defense and only be able to be hit once.

    Not sure I understand this comment entirely, but chained is not out.
    If you are built right, and respond right to your chaining., you can shift to Rogue work, maybe some light Mage work, and as this is a team game, there should be an opposing province or two that should be in your military wheelhouse.

    Faery is not harder to chain than anyone else.
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  6. #21
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    If you are built right, and respond right to your chaining., you can shift to Rogue work, maybe some light Mage work, and as this is a team game, there should be an opposing province or two that should be in your military wheelhouse.
    I dont understand.... those arethings the chained faery will do better than other attackers... and also things you should be doing anyways.

    I've played orc attacker in probably 75% of my ages, and I op 70-90% success with my T/M... there is always work with ops needing done. If nothing else you rob greed and drought.
    Last edited by Ganga; 16-07-2018 at 03:12.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    I dont understand.... those arethings the chained faery will do better than other attackers... and also things you should be doing anyways.
    When you chain an attacker which a feary running heavy offspecs its not magically going to become a good t/m from being a good attacker. Build a typical feary attacker...lets say 7 epa, 3 wpa 2 tpa 5 ppa 11.75 offspecs/acre. its similar to my orc but a bit more def focused. if u go much below that offspec your not much of an attacker anway so lets say thats a decent prov. Then u get chained So like 2000->250 acres.

    Before we move on lets make a few assumptions:
    1. the orc and feary have similar incoming acres (unlikley but whatever), once they get land int they are what 600 acres?
    2. u got chained with just some army away time and thus desertions your likely to have lost about 1/3 of your def and 1/4 your tpa
    3. you were already low peasents and after hits end up at 2000 peasents.

    So you end up on
    600*25*1.15*1.15=19837 population space.

    2,000 peasents,
    6,000 wizzards
    3,000 theives
    8,000 leets
    23,500 offspecs

    IF I were an an orc all u keep is offense. and u end up with 19837-8000= 11,837 leet or about 140k offense. My nw is ~180-200k nw depending on science. Enough nw to topfeed into a 400k prov as needed and enough offense to finish chains/do a lucky topfeed mass if they are gaining peeasents


    If im a feary your saying what keep all leets and theives and just a few offspecs?
    i.e.
    2000 peasents
    6000 wizzards
    3000 theives
    8000 leets
    800 offspecs?
    I hit 0 def guys using my offspecs and end up with 64k def? and 155k-170k nw. i have enough tpa to NS...oh wait i just got singled by the 3 enemy orcs also chained in nw and spare off hit by 3 more orcs during their main chains and i drop to 375 acres. my leets and theives desert my def drops and more and more people hit me with spare offense till i lose most of my tpa/leets and now i have no offense.


    Alternatively i keep all my offspecs and now im running 100k offense and 115-130k nw. my nw is much lower as is my offense and i dont even get a bonus to gains..not usefull.

  8. #23
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    that senario solely depends on how brutally you get chained, was warring 4 times with Bocan War hero and got chained 3 times, each time I ended up bouncing back as they did not chain from to high acreage and as they went on chaining my kd fellors afterwards when def got to high, nw to low and acres to few. I bounced back and got unbreakable twice, admitted with very few off specs left after that. In 4 wars we had 4 or 5 provinces get killed since they ended on land def and was hit full on by t/m's from there. War hero with incomming defensive elites won't end up so badly.

    Admittedly it was the lower end of the 100-120 ranking most of the time, but I do believe it would work against most kd's up to the arround rank 30-50.

  9. #24
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    Persian... that's alot of numbers but alot of nonsense.

    I dont know how you think 11.75:7 is the ratio to play fairy..... that's just wrong, its 1:1. But your orc tops feeds 1, maybe 2 waves and the fairy will eventually push him below itself. Quad tapping you while you 1x MAYBE 2x if they run your military numbers above your NW. (gaining 0 honor btw to make those hits)

    Your numbers just make zero sense, if we are both full elite the faery has 8 defense to your 11 offense. not 64k to your 140k... i just don't know how your getting your numbers.

    Do a simple infiltrate on your orc, see you have 0 theives and now i only need .5tpa .5wpa to op players like you with 100%.

    You bring in that you have 4 orcs single tapping this fairy... so by that logic there are 4 chained fairys quad tapping those orcs to their single taps.

    By your logic, the "strategy moderator", you should go into war 100% elite 0 defense because it lets you top feed over your NW. That is what your telling us. Its the same thing. and if thats what your doing it makes sense to run full defense because you need very little offense to 4x.

    You seem the think the faery on full defense will be the one loosing land... and that's just not how that works.
    Last edited by Ganga; 16-07-2018 at 08:06.

  10. #25
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    @madchess we've run bocan war hero two ages in a row. sometimes one of em can come back but if the enemy knows what they are doing its pretty easy to keep someone down when they use offspecs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    Persian... that's alot of numbers but alot of nonsense.

    I dont know how you think 11.75:7 is the ratio to play fairy..... that's just wrong. But your orc tops feeds 1, maybe 2 waves and the fairy will eventually push him below itself. Quad tapping you while you 1x MAYBE 2x if they run your military numbers above your NW
    if your running a low-ish tpa and wpa feary because u fancy yourself a feary attacker thats about the right ratio. higher def just makes u even more worthless if u dont have decent tpa/wpa to back it up(given that u cant cast self spells on others anymore). If u are runnning more like 4/4 and still think of yourself as a feary attacker your more of a a/t/m and your still wrong about how a chained fearies effectiveness..

    i personally ran feary tact in the past 2 ages. i ran 15 epa 3 wpa 1.5 tpa 3 ppa 6 offspec/acre. i was chained mutiple times. In every case if i tried what your suggestion i would just die. Sure i got my tpa boosted to 4+ so i could op/ns and whatnot. But against any half comptent kd u only keep yourself afloat with incoming acres and ll so long (read i didnt release a single leet in a bit becuase i could manage my incomign well enough). But against compotent kds the hitting brings u into overpop and all your tpa/epa goes away even if u dont release it.


    edit...
    As for your suggestion that the orc will drop in 1-2 waves while the feary # wins. the answer is simply no. your suggestion would work in a maybe a 1-3 man kd. But anytime u drop a feary once its triing to recover by hiting 0 def for land all u have to do is hit it 5-6 more times with its army out. if they were stupid enough to keep a high raw tpa the 10+ hours its army is out is MORE than enough to push it into minimal spare off hitting. Then since it kept no offense u can massacre it 3-4 times and forget about it ever existing.
    Last edited by Persain; 16-07-2018 at 08:09.

  11. #26
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    Look man ill keep it simple:

    6k military

    Faery 1:1
    24000 24000
    Faery 11.75:7
    30000 18000

    Orc IDK what dumb **** you run probably 2:1
    44000 12000

    1:1 faery double taps and can't be double tapped back your fairy on the other hand CAN be.

    Your provinces go down 2x as fast, but as a benifit you do some extra minimal dmg to chain targets. before your double tapping 1:1 your dumb ratio is being trippled.


    If you were running 15 EPA as fairy and still being chained, you can't ask for the war to go any more in your favor. If you were loosing those wars your doing something wrong. Who the **** are you warring that chains high defence low offence provinces as a priority.


    edit...
    As for your suggestion that the orc will drop in 1-2 waves while the feary # wins. the answer is simply no. your suggestion would work in a maybe a 1-3 man kd. But anytime u drop a feary once its triing to recover by hiting 0 def for land all u have to do is hit it 5-6 more times with its army out. if they were stupid enough to keep a high raw tpa the 10+ hours its army is out is MORE than enough to push it into minimal spare off hitting. Then since it kept no offense u can massacre it 3-4 times and forget about it ever existing.
    To hit that fairy 5-6 times means you could hit one of your orcs 20-24 times... YOUR NOT MAKING SENSE.

    What army out? they are hitting you with 200 defence points they dont need to send anything to do that. there is no ARMY OUT in this scenario.
    Last edited by Persain; 16-07-2018 at 08:36. Reason: merging posts...dont double post

  12. #27
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    again Ganga its stupid to think in 1v1. that feary gets chained into the ground and then is useless. the orc gets chained and then still hits


    if your talking 6k military pre chain its still stupid to think like oh look i can double you. Becuase its fights are fought against kds not solo provs. That feary cant magically double while the orc only singles someone. That orc is going to single that feary then hit someone smaller they can hit with another 20k.

    When you talk about viablity as an attacker u have to talk about how they surive post chain. That means assuming you are taking to ~1/10th your starting size then see how effective your prov becomes. If your not talking in those terms your talking about some type of hybrid.

    i mean you can just as easily balance an orc to double that feary w/out geting tripled

    faery 3k offspec 3kleet 24k-24k

    orc 4400 leets 1600 dspec 48.4k-- 9.6k.

    oh look its back to 2v2 with both provs on equal tpa/wpa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganga View Post
    To hit that fairy 5-6 times means you could hit one of your orcs 20-24 times... YOUR NOT MAKING SENSE.

    What army out? they are hitting you with 200 defence points they dont need to send anything to do that. there is no ARMY OUT in this scenario.
    when the feary has all its generals out and other orcs in your kd can hit it 5-6 times.
    sure u can hit my orc 20-24 times. but it can keep enough incoming acres running almost pure leet that those hits dont do anything. an orc with no tpa, no dspecs and all leets out on an attack could be taken to 1 acres and it doesnt matter. what matters is its size once the land comes in.
    Last edited by Persain; 16-07-2018 at 08:36.

  13. #28
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    faery has 4.8k offense left to ambush you with 2x.... and you have 0 offence left to ambush your still trading singles for doubles. please just stop.

  14. #29
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    Ganga AGAIN your treating it like a 1v1.

    If i have 25 people attack your feary x1. And you have 25 people attack my orc what happens?

  15. #30
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    Your orc becomes quad tappable much much faster than my faery.... please just stop. We've now chained 2.5 orcs by the time you chained that fairy is what happens.
    Last edited by Ganga; 16-07-2018 at 08:43.

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