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Thread: Age 78 Proposed Changes - Feedback and Suggestions

  1. #1
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    Age 78 Proposed Changes - Feedback and Suggestions

    Proposed changes are here!

    Please use this thread to provide feedback (or other suggestions) on the currently posted changes (keep an eye on the changelog at the bottom of the post for any changes that might be made to the proposed changes post).

    You can find the announcement here: Age 78 Proposed Changes
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  2. #2
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Are the books diminishing returns connected with land, the total amount of books that are allocated in each category(main or sub?) or something else?

    Lets say I have 10 scientists in economy, they produce X books which I can allocate only in economy sub categories. Is this the idea.

    What does sage's bonus buff: book generation or book effectiveness?

    EDIT:

    elf is too strong with 8 elite off. Bring it back to 7.

    Orc should have 11 NW elite value it's off is ridiculous enough.

    EDIT2: just noticed orc lost -tpa penalty. If intel taking was too hard for orcs - ok remove it. But replace it with +enemy's sabotage dmg. Orc doesn't need buff imo.
    Last edited by Bo To; 03-10-2018 at 20:26.

  3. #3
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    WOW JUST WOW!THE DWARFS CONSUME 25% MORE FOOD AND GET 5% BE HOLY SNITZELS!!AND LOOK AT THOSE HALFLINGS GO ,OH NO WAIT THEY ARE THE SAME!Other then sage all personalities are the pretty much the same wtf.WHEN IS THIS NON STOP BALANCE GONNA STOP ,FCK BALANCE ,GET BROKEN (ETERTAINING).


    This is ridiculous and irritating and someone has to tell you, THIS GAME IS DYING and this type of non changes is not helping.Do you realize that you have a player pool based upon people playing this game for years or decades like myself,go look around in KDs you will find 1 out of 20 ppl saying "hey i`m new" everyone else has played this at some point.WHEN DAFUQ are we going to be excited about the "new age" ?

    What is it ? Lack of time ? Lack of imagination ?

    Bring back broken ass undeads ,bring back clerics ,bring back freak,bring back DEs,bring back sheppards ,add new ops ...


    "- Scientists will generate naturally" WHY ,WHY IS IT PASSIVE ? People should not be on the same freaking page ,one should be able to get ahead with dedication,experience,decisions.Players who coudnt care less about their provinces and have little to no activity should not have freaking simillar science with people who log on an hourly basis 12h a day.
    I`m sorry to say this but the days when ppl had to fake war to pump were a lot more interesting then nowadays man ,you actually needed to DO SOMETHING for that sci and put effort into it and plan it ahead and time it and choose right.This is just a 1 dimensional passive bs.
    Last edited by Snp; 03-10-2018 at 20:57.

  4. #4
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    The changes to the science system are huge.. but i really think Orc might be a bit strong in combination with some of the new science categories and change to MAP. Perhaps Orc book production -50% or something like that.

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    Please do some deeper Race and Personality changes. This **** is boring.

  6. #6
    Post Demon Avenger's Avatar
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    Races:

    Elf should go 7/4 and no wages penalty. WPA bonus lowered to 30%, Tower efficiency even higher at 40% or 50%.

    Halflings are a bit underrepresented. Could give them 'train thieves with military credits'.

    Humans need something extra. Considerably increase the credits bonus or add a spell (Town Watch?).

    Orcs are just plain overpowered. Probably an intended joke. Slap in a science penalty if TPA penalty is going away.

    Personalities:

    Considering new Sci mechanics, Revelation should be added to Heretic/Mystic/Rogue.

    Heretic lost a bit of its appeal when +damage was lost. Either add +10% operation/instant spell damage or Paradise.

    Sage - removed.

    Tactician is not very popular. Add Crystal Ball and Crystal Eye to their repertoire, that would really make them feel special for the intel role.
    34% ambush protection could also be a thing (ambushing a Tactician would yield 50%*.66=33% of acres back instead of 50%).

    Warrior needs a minor buff. Add reduced cost for mercenaries and/or a spell (Inspire Army?).

    Science:

    Science system is needlessly complicated. Producing scientists, then producing books then holding on to them for a bonus? Ugh.
    I am not a fan of the hybrid system, but since it's already set in stone, I'm going to propose some tweaks.

    Remove Sage for this age. Especially since the impact of sci is hard to assess in such short time. Sage is a problematic personality that's either too good or just unusable based on meta.
    Revelation should go to Heretic/Mystic/Rogue again.

    Cut Bookkeeping, Artisan, Siege, Valor, Heroism, Shielding, Cunning, Invocation - at least for this age.
    Gains science is a mistake, Shielding and Cunning cancel each other out, all other new categories don't really deserve to be categories, we already have two layers of optimization for that (on top of buildings): spells, rituals.
    3 buildings just for science is too much. Make Guards Stations protect all resources again.
    Cut schools, add Libraries.

    Give amnesia to a race (maybe Elf?).

    Learn attack seems flawed. Good players will most likely allocate right away (even with the incentives) for the instant bonus, and they will learn wave the less skilled players - bringing back the complaints about abduct.
    No incentives for stacking unallocated books. Learn takes from allocated books at a much lower base gain.

    Mechanics:

    Keeping gbp on declare is a pretty extreme change. Over the course of 2 ages we've gone from button speed advantage to making declare-chain a chore. I understand that button control is still powerful, but effectively gimping first wave chaining is a huge step in the other direction. This needs to be toned down.
    Last edited by Avenger; 04-10-2018 at 12:05.
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  7. #7
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    Mmmm, if your going to give Elves a wage penalty, at least dont give Elves an Elf tax on their elites.... that is double dipping........
    A outerworld vagabond Elf traveling this world.
    From the world of Thardferr, herald of the Eldar Elven Kingdoms
    Elven Roles sense Age 63: Sage, Mystic, Rogue, Tactician, Cleric, Merchant, Heretic, War Hero, Warrior, Paladin, Undead,

  8. #8
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    In war learn to weak. Massacre is 15% wpa in range. To make removal of science worth it u gonna need 10% min damage per hit

  9. #9
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    Preliminary thoughts:

    I like the adjustments to Avian and Dwarf. Avian may even be pushing a bit too strong but I do think it needed a bit of a bump.

    Elf adjustment is interesting. I see you're pushing it more toward serious hybrid capabilities, which is kinda nifty. The +30% wages is a nice way to push its wages more in line with other t/m-flavored races since it can rely on specialists for def.

    I agree with Bo To that orc doesn't really need the removal of its -tpa penalty. It's strong enough as is and this is a nice way to give it a weakness that can be exploited some.

    Faery, though. I mean, it's already strong already and it gets a buff to its self spells? And IA as well? Like, the one fae weakness really is that it's expensive to maintain its elite army. IA significantly reduces that weakness, which I think is a mistake. I also think it's kind of odd that there are two fairly defense-oriented thievery-oriented races and one hybrid-oriented mage-oriented race. Could use faery as an opportunity to make something a bit more balanced as a T/M. But yeah, in general, fae is way too strong. Needs to lose IA and lose either some defense or offensive power. Either lose GP or +1 stealth or op damage or 1 def off elite.

    Human also seems a bit weaker now perhaps. Not sure why it loses the +25% sci spawn, particularly since it seems like sage has been tuned down (although we have no idea what the numbers are like for the new system, so hard to say).

    For personalities, nothing really sticks out to me other than WH still seems a bit awkward as an attacking-focused personality that gets an honor bonus and paladin still seems like it needs something more like magic sci bonus, more guild effect, and/or a wpa boost when casting spells on allies (not just self spells, but things like MV too). Otherwise, kinda agree with the other posts.

    The main thing with personalities is we need clarification on how the science bonuses will work with the new system. It's not clear right now which category/sub-category will be affected.

    Also more numbers for how science works would be much appreciated. As well as a more detailed description of the full mechanics. Can books be reallocated within a category? Seems like people would want to swap the more war-focused ones for econ-focused ones during eowcf/peacetime and then swap back during war. But of course, that could get easily abused during war with the current categories (and probably with any categories unless you add quite a few of them).

    Also, learn seems fairly weak. I like that there's some tension between holding on to books so you get the bonus when you allocate them vs wanting to allocate them to keep them safe, but really I expect people will allocate frequently enough that it's just not going to be worth spending attacks on learns. Casualties > gains. Learns probably need to steal allocated books to matter.

    Another thing about the sci changes is that split of OME and DME. Seems like a buff to T/Ms in general because they don't really need/make use of OME whereas attackers will make use of both. That combined with fae still being pretty nuts will make it even easier for T/Ms to be UB with crazy firepower. But in general yeah we really need numbers. It also may be worth tuning down the number of new sci categories for next age while the new system is still fresh. There are a lot of new variables being introduced.

    Finally, the sliding in of MAP in war. OK, this is pretty cool to encourage more hostilities since giving button is less scary since you're not going to have 2 provs immediately chained into dust, but it does change war quite a lot. I like that there will be a lot more strategy around how to allocate hits early on, but there is one thing that this will enable more of: bullying. A kd that's, say, 10-20% stronger would before have to at least hesitate before waving because the button carried with it the power to destroy a couple provs at the start of the war, but now? Pretty even footing at the start of the war. I do like the encouragement of more hostilities, but I wonder if there's some way to reduce the amount of bullying that will happen due to this change.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    Proposed changes are here!

    Please use this thread to provide feedback (or other suggestions) on the currently posted changes (keep an eye on the changelog at the bottom of the post for any changes that might be made to the proposed changes post).

    You can find the announcement here: Age 78 Proposed Changes

    To be honest as a long time player this is a bit on the boring side.
    Can we Add Undead as a race and add in the cleric personality that is immune to the plague?

    Just something different.. I do appreciate the science work but thats not the shineys that keep and attract people.
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  11. #11
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    I like the sci idea, but its bloated with garbage.
    The races are dull to say the least.
    The scaling gbp will make waving a lot more powerful, could be fun

    Missing changes that actually would bring flavour to the game.

    - introduce some fun spells, revoke Old spells. (Think more propaganda, less MS)
    - Cut down eowcf time to 48-72h
    - add gbp inside wars (just hooray, No more retarded overpop management)

    This is actually pretty boring

  12. #12
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    how can genesis be 1st age
    and do please make dwarf avian and halfling more of those +-5% changes
    and remove -1 mana from elf

  13. #13
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    well your solution for science might be as good as any, persnly I'd prefer to simply go back to scientists only and capped at 35 a category, seemed much simpler, but again we will likely come to master even thi new science in time.

    Not much to say about race and personality, mostly just playing arround with numbers. I do want to point out that the suggested changes have Avian, Elf and Human all with 8/3 elites which I hope is an oversight since elite values should differ from race to race. I would say it is better to play arround with nw value of the elites than have them all be at the same value.

    Also please bring back Dryad and Bocan or atleast bring the Bocan credits can train thieves bonus back, give it to Halfing if you do not want Bocan back, but bring back Dryad.

  14. #14
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    They probably want minimal race/personality changes when adding this new science system. Plus they also, presumably, during the age have Genesis to play with more weird things.

    I think the sci system as is can be quite good. It lowers the ability of sci retals and learn/abduct waves/punishment. It also nerfs core in the sci game because of one way hits, even if a core you hit can quad you back, doesn't matter if you don't keep unallocated books. Makes having defense more of a deterrent than offense.

    Since you can't always take sci from people, whores and top war KDs can't always use the threat of gang bang to keep people at bay. It's RK or nothing. No more quadding noobs for 2 sci a hit KD wide if you get randomed once. The only way for a whore to get truly safe to pump books will to be actually bigger than everyone. Which means it's a buff to whore cows. Those dwarf/sages emeriti has this age? Only getting stronger next age. If there's a competitive crown age there'll be some real cow optimization going on. But given that only emeriti cares about land crown on the whole server, that's probably bunk anyways.

  15. #15
    Regular Kilim's Avatar
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    Races:
    I agree with @Avenger on elves. 7/4 with no wage penalty. though i think wpa and tower efficiency should both be a bit higher to create a more unique race. even maybe reduce the offensiveness of their elites(maybe off specs).

    Halflings needs a buff imo.
    maybe a bit larger population bonus to also make them more unique. their elites isn't strong, but halfers strength is in numbers and thievery.

    other then that its good imo though general 'unique'ness' of races would be nice.
    something where all could still do most, but the role or way forward for a race was clear.
    Personalities:

    i also agree with @Avenger on this: "Considering new Sci mechanics, Revelation should be added to Heretic/Mystic/Rogue."

    Science:

    Generally i like they new science changes.
    The part where you can take a risk and get a bonus for not allocating, but that the already allocated can't be touched.
    i LOVED last age where i could actually as a TM improve science, and not just get ****ed at every turn oow.

    But, Revelation should be re-added to the 3 T/M focused personalities and Sages.

    And with the new science categories, i think it would be A LOT better, if both scientist generation(at least double it) was a lot higher than it currently is, and make sure that book creation is also very high.
    reason for this is that i want to see more unique provinces. which also means you can do alot more tweaking with universities and schools, and if you have the skill, time and focus, then you can really get an edge or 'unique'ness' depending on play style, kingdom, and roles.
    And with above changes where everyone has a lot science, then you would be able to create much more unique provinces.

    - take a thief, that can focus on cunning to only be able to focus on attackers but be much more effective at that.
    - or a big guy using shielding in arcane arts to help protect.
    - or a dragon slayer province, that is super effective at slaying dragons(that would need to be scouted and countered if enemy have one).

    and for the haters/naysayers, yes you could just take 100% of your books in that category, but that would render your province highly ineffective compared to others late game.
    where if you actually had a very high book generation and a lot higher scientist generation, on top of that could focus on it with uni and schools, then you would see much more unique provinces and would be much more fun.

    would be a bit more different than it is now, but this different would change things, make them more fast and fun.

    thats my two cents :-)
    Last edited by Kilim; 04-10-2018 at 00:22. Reason: Added sage to pers, and said to double scientist generation.

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