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Thread: Science requires way too much work

  1. #1
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    Science requires way too much work

    You need to invest hourly and it involves lots of big numbers. If we're going to do 16 science categories we need an auto-invest option. This would reduce load on the game servers as well. You should be able to set a ratio for science categories and have it invest in that proportion.

  2. #2
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    how am i supposed to learn you for awesome gains if you auto-allocate every tick?

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    just means that if you want to invest in more scientists and a better science it hurts if you are to lazy about it afterwards.

    the change promotes activity as there is no benifits from having unalocated books
    Furthermore I think Carthage should be destroyed and Dryads brought back to the game

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    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    just means that if you want to invest in more scientists and a better science it hurts if you are to lazy about it afterwards.

    the change promotes activity as there is no benifits from having unalocated books
    Actually, there are benefits. You can make a hit bounce by dumping tons of unallocated books into DME for example...but in general, I agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdorje View Post
    You need to invest hourly and it involves lots of big numbers. If we're going to do 16 science categories we need an auto-invest option. This would reduce load on the game servers as well. You should be able to set a ratio for science categories and have it invest in that proportion.
    Yes. A bit of casual friendly please.

  6. #6
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    How is it not casual friendly? We can't just put up bumpers to protect 'casual' from 'competitive' players. 'Casuals' need to accept that with being casual comes certain consequences, like having your science more exposed than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    how am i supposed to learn you for awesome gains if you auto-allocate every tick?
    Yes, and that's another thing. All the changes this age are intended to mean you don't need to log in. But the science change means you have to log in all the time because learn takes all your unallocated books and none of your allocated ones.

    Pick a theme and stick with it.

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    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    sel

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdorje View Post
    Yes, and that's another thing. All the changes this age are intended to mean you don't need to log in. But the science change means you have to log in all the time because learn takes all your unallocated books and none of your allocated ones.

    Pick a theme and stick with it.
    changes make it so that you can be "competitive" w/out having to be loged in 24/7. However there should be a draw to be in the game. Science does that, without learns i was literally going to lose 3-5 players, nothing to do outside of war is bad, rewarding those who log in and "check" is good. I kinda wish they'd included the 'Save up get more' so those who dont log didnt get as badly punished, but 5 week age, lets hope they swap next age.

    Thing with science though is the reward isn't THAT great, my low/average/max is:

    174,947
    216,195
    290,719

    one person logs once a day, no learns got learned a few times. one has made a few hits logs in twice a day, and the last guy is army in out since age started.

    Draw that out to the age end and that spread is gonna be reduced

  10. #10
    Post Fiend Niko's Avatar
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    Attacking is a form of activity that should always be encouraged because it generates multiple levels of interaction within the game. Thus, Learns are a positive addition and should generally be encouraged (outside of war).

    However, Learns are only circumstantially tied to book allocation. The mechanics of Learns could easily be changed in a way that makes them independent of book allocation. Thus, one should not approach these two mechanics (book allocation and Learns) as if they are intrinsically linked.

    Why is this important to note? Because jdorje is making a reasonable suggestion that is independent of Learn mechanics and others have based their counter-arguments on the circumstance that Learns are linked to book allocation. Rather, try expanding on his suggestion and consider ways that book allocation and Learns could be unlinked and remain viable. Or, focus on the simple argument at the core of this suggestion that more log-in requirements are best (or not).

    What the hell am I talking about? This is one example (and probably a bad one). Adopt jdorje's suggestion and also change Learns to (only) capture a portion of allocated books. Based on the current mechanics of book generation, I think this could be fair and rewarding with proper base gains on Learns.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Y'know, sometimes winning... winning is no fun at all.

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    the issue with capturing only allocated is i'd just save up for 2 weeks, then right before war allocate ALL my books boom.

    learns as they were originally suggested and tentatively worked out only took from unallocated books (at an even higher rate) but there was a HUGE bonus to saveing up books and spending them all in one batch. What we ended up with was a tweak on that and would have been okay still taking both unallocated and allocated books IF you got that bonus to saving up. As it is now i dont disagree, just that its a short age lets see where it goes next age.

  12. #12
    Post Fiend Niko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    the issue with capturing only allocated is i'd just save up for 2 weeks, then right before war allocate ALL my books boom.
    That's a good point. Especially when I consider smercjd's bounce tactic using unallocated books. I think such creative uses of mechanics are a lot of fun and should generally be preserved where they occur.

    What if unallocated books had a decay rate?
    Last edited by Niko; 14-10-2018 at 22:44.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Y'know, sometimes winning... winning is no fun at all.

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    then u fall worse into jdorje's complaint of u have to constantly log in to allocate yet most mechanics have made it so you can go 12-24 hours w/out a log in and not be punished.

  14. #14
    Post Demon Avenger's Avatar
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    I'm content with the drawbacks of not being active enough to constantly allocate science, but the sci page needs some upgrades. Like total books (category/total) and maybe a max button per type.
    Discord: Hex | IRC: Hextor / Avenger

  15. #15
    Post Fiend Niko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    then u fall worse into jdorje's complaint of u have to constantly log in to allocate yet most mechanics have made it so you can go 12-24 hours w/out a log in and not be punished.
    I was thinking of unallocated decay along with the auto-allocate option. As a disincentive to not using it. Although I see your point. If we go that far, might as well just remove the option to have unallocated books entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    I'm content with the drawbacks of not being active enough to constantly allocate science, but the sci page needs some upgrades. Like total books (category/total) and maybe a max button per type.
    Same. It's just useful as a thought-experiment to try and make ideas work. I've also been brainwashed to do so by my work. @_@

    The current system does encourage attacking, and I think that's the important thing. I don't buy the ultimatum that log-in requirements are good (or healthy). I would even go so far as to say that attacking is the only form of activity that should be deliberately incentivized.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    Y'know, sometimes winning... winning is no fun at all.

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