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Thread: Question about Science Bonuses

  1. #16
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Can't go negative afaik.
    But can you reach 100% reduction?

    If so...maybe a cube root rather than square root for diminishing returns after a certain point (like the previous soft cap science amounts)?

  2. #17
    Enthusiast Minty's Avatar
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    I would think dmg reduction from ops is alot more powerful than increased dmg. A cow that pumps sci whole age will eventually be untouchable, save for duration spells/ops

    If you ran max schools and libs from oop and 5 weeks forward you'll have 11M science. 9 weeks would mean 35M science.


    At Y9, having 85% BE, 50%pop, 70ME and still having half your science to spend is obviously ridiculous. I dont even think the "gamebreaking" sciences comes close to that in OPness. Sure you can have -70% dmg but you could also have +400% magic science. Who is getting through that in the first place?

    I do think you are on to something, that there should be a soft cap where square becomes cube
    Last edited by Minty; 13-10-2018 at 21:49.

  3. #18
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
    I would think dmg reduction from ops is alot more powerful than increased dmg. A cow that pumps sci whole age will eventually be untouchable, save for duration spells/ops

    If you ran max schools and libs from oop and 5 weeks forward you'll have 11M science. 9 weeks would mean 35M science.


    At Y9, having 85% BE, 50%pop, 70ME and still having half your science to spend is obviously ridiculous. I dont even think the "gamebreaking" sciences comes close to that in OPness. Sure you can have -70% dmg but you could also have +400% magic science. Who is getting through that in the first place?

    I do think you are on to something, that there should be a soft cap where square becomes cube
    Well - others will have potentially similar WPA bonuses if they're also pumping WPA sci.

    However - if two people equally pump offensive ops dmg (Cunning) and ops dmg reduction (Shielding), Shielding bonus wins vs the Cunning (with the ultimate win being at 100% Shielding, as even if the entire world of legends server combined all their science into one province and that province pumped Cunning, they'd still do 0 dmg to this one province with 100% Shielding).

    But yeah, my point is more analytical and specific, where you're talking more about the game as a whole. I need to learn to how to think that way ^_^

  4. #19
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same about the shielding sci - it should be removed because at high sci has too much impact. You don't even have to max it because there are wts and with even 50% you can be untouchable...

    Same goes for extra dragon slaying power - why make dragons easier to kill? Either put min time the dragons stay(6/12/18/24h), change the alchemy from extra income to extra dragon funding or simply remove the dragons.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smercjd View Post
    Well - others will have potentially similar WPA bonuses if they're also pumping WPA sci.

    However - if two people equally pump offensive ops dmg (Cunning) and ops dmg reduction (Shielding), Shielding bonus wins vs the Cunning (with the ultimate win being at 100% Shielding, as even if the entire world of legends server combined all their science into one province and that province pumped Cunning, they'd still do 0 dmg to this one province with 100% Shielding).

    But yeah, my point is more analytical and specific, where you're talking more about the game as a whole. I need to learn to how to think that way ^_^

    alternatively instead of sheildign and cunning being multiplicative they could be additive and thus directly counter eachother.

  6. #21
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smercjd View Post
    But can you reach 100% reduction?

    If so...maybe a cube root rather than square root for diminishing returns after a certain point (like the previous soft cap science amounts)?
    Theoretically yes, practically no.
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  7. #22
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Theoretically yes, practically no.
    But...there were two questions @_@

    EDIT: I'm confused as to which one you're answering.

  8. #23
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    alternatively instead of sheildign and cunning being multiplicative they could be additive and thus directly counter eachother.
    That's a good point...maybe not just shield/cunn - but others can be more additive?

  9. #24
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    indeed, 5 week age and its a good point to bring up if we were to run into a long 14-15 week age or something. i mean 100% shielding would still leave you open to MS, Riots which is pretty damaging so your not "just safe" but its a good thing to think about, id say that category could alternatively not follow the same curve of other science if they dont wanna make it additive

  10. #25
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    indeed, 5 week age and its a good point to bring up if we were to run into a long 14-15 week age or something. i mean 100% shielding would still leave you open to MS, Riots which is pretty damaging so your not "just safe" but its a good thing to think about, id say that category could alternatively not follow the same curve of other science if they dont wanna make it additive
    Afail all sabotage ops(including riots) are coded in a way they get modified by +/- op dmg.

  11. #26
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    Initially they did! Then they split up duration and instants. It should no longer affect riots etc.
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  12. #27
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Has anyone broken science yet this age?

    I'm curious to know how everyone's doing.

    How many scientists do you have?
    Total Books?
    What's the highest number of scientists you have in one category? What's the category?
    Do you like what you'd done? What would you do differently?

  13. #28
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    9 sci, Sci generation 75.5%

    Alchemy 51,497 +13.4% Income
    Tools 105,300 +13.7% Building Effectiveness
    Housing 247,251 +12.6% Population Limits
    Production 60,000 +62.2% Food & Rune Production
    Bookkeeping 3,100 -2.8% Wage Reduction
    Artisan 0 -0.0% Construction Time

    Military - 1 scientists - 28,400 books available
    Strategy 78,600 +9.5% Defensive Military Efficiency
    Siege 0 +0.0% Battle Gains
    Tactics 1,400 +1.3% Offensive Military Efficiency
    Valor 0 -0.0% Military Train Time & +0.0% Dragon Slaying Strength
    Heroism 21,000 +4.9% Draft Speed & -4.9% Draft Costs

    Arcane Arts - 3 scientists - 142,600 books available
    Crime 223,700 +107.8% Thievery Effectiveness
    Channeling 140,000 +69.6% Magic Effectiveness
    Shielding 5,000 -2.4% Damage from Enemy Thievery and Magic Instant Operations
    Cunning 78,700 +9.5% Thievery and Magic Instant Operation Damage
    Invocation 3,000 -2.3% Ritual Rune Cost

    Totals to just under 1.2 Million. Current sci allotment is 5(2)-1-3 as a rogue. The (2) is 2 12,500 book novices.

    I've been pretty happy with how I've done sci all age tbh, right now I could have more advanced arcane sci, because I moved a grad arcane into econ. Others in my KD are 3-1-5 instead, so I went 5-1-3 to be different.

    Haven't run any labs, but have had rev up through war, mostly. Have some schools in now, they aren't as good as I'd hoped, I guess I regret moving one of my higher experience sci over to where my schools were, feels like a net loss.

  14. #29
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    10 scientists, Sci generation 66%

    Alchemy 106,826 +19.3% Income

    Tools 356,634 +25.3% Building Effectiveness

    Housing 155,441 +10.0% Population Limits

    Production 361,231 +152.7% Food & Rune Production

    Bookkeeping 2,887 -2.7% Wage Reduction

    Artisan 90,297 -10.2% Construction Time

    Military - 2 scientists - 0 books available
    Strategy 100,746 +10.7% Defensive Military Efficiency

    Siege 12,442 +3.3% Battle Gains

    Tactics 49,228 +7.5% Offensive Military Efficiency

    Valor 158,717 -16.9% Military Train Time & +16.9% Dragon Slaying Strength

    Heroism 49,403 +7.5% Draft Speed & -7.5% Draft Costs

    Arcane Arts - 3 scientists - 0 books available
    Crime 128,953 +54.6% Thievery Effectiveness

    Channeling 132,760 +67.8% Magic Effectiveness

    Shielding 65,836 -8.7% Damage from Enemy Thievery and Magic Instant Operations

    Cunning 85 +0.3% Thievery and Magic Instant Operation Damage

    Invocation 50,783 -9.5% Ritual Rune Cost

    Total is a little over 1.8 mil books.

    Science looks pretty strong this age and for attackers who are active enough, they can get good numbers by just hitting 2x daily for learns and keeping enough universities to protect their science. Considering how easy it is to get Tools science up this age, attackers can easily get Tools science to 20%+ and Production science to 130%+ and run sub 5% farms by beginning of second week only. People who do learns regularly, have more efficient use of building space this age as compared to those who aren't doing learns much.

  15. #30
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrinky View Post
    10 scientists, Sci generation 66%

    Alchemy 106,826 +19.3% Income

    Tools 356,634 +25.3% Building Effectiveness

    Housing 155,441 +10.0% Population Limits

    Production 361,231 +152.7% Food & Rune Production

    Bookkeeping 2,887 -2.7% Wage Reduction

    Artisan 90,297 -10.2% Construction Time

    Military - 2 scientists - 0 books available
    Strategy 100,746 +10.7% Defensive Military Efficiency

    Siege 12,442 +3.3% Battle Gains

    Tactics 49,228 +7.5% Offensive Military Efficiency

    Valor 158,717 -16.9% Military Train Time & +16.9% Dragon Slaying Strength

    Heroism 49,403 +7.5% Draft Speed & -7.5% Draft Costs

    Arcane Arts - 3 scientists - 0 books available
    Crime 128,953 +54.6% Thievery Effectiveness

    Channeling 132,760 +67.8% Magic Effectiveness

    Shielding 65,836 -8.7% Damage from Enemy Thievery and Magic Instant Operations

    Cunning 85 +0.3% Thievery and Magic Instant Operation Damage

    Invocation 50,783 -9.5% Ritual Rune Cost

    Total is a little over 1.8 mil books.

    Science looks pretty strong this age and for attackers who are active enough, they can get good numbers by just hitting 2x daily for learns and keeping enough universities to protect their science. Considering how easy it is to get Tools science up this age, attackers can easily get Tools science to 20%+ and Production science to 130%+ and run sub 5% farms by beginning of second week only. People who do learns regularly, have more efficient use of building space this age as compared to those who aren't doing learns much.
    I think this is a really good point you made. The learns. I spoke with a person who already has 13 scientists but has not done learn attacks and has less books than 1.8million (much less).

    Definitely hints that science probably needs some tweaks.

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