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  1. #1
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Question about Science Bonuses

    I've calculated the bonuses from sciences at certain amounts of books...

    With the inital 5 scientists, you get approximately 6.5million books for the whole age (assuming a 12 Utopian YR age, no schools, no learns).

    6.5million books gives you certain alarming bonuses...but the ones I'm most curious about are the reduction bonuses... For example the following 4:

    Wage Reduction = 130%
    Military Training Time Reduction = 107%
    Ritual Rune Cost Reduction = 107%
    Instant Ops Reduction Damage = 87%

    I'm assuming these bottom out at 0, right? As in, you don't suddenly start gaining money from wages or gaining runes from casting a ritual.

    The most worrisome is Training Time...107% reduction in time means you get the troops the tick before you train them. This won't break Utopia right?

    Furthermore, with a little more effort you could reach 100% reduction in instant ops damage. What if you have 150% reduction from instants, do you gain peasants when fireballed/kidnapped? Spawn troops when nightmared? Receive donation troops from propaganda?? lol
    Last edited by smercjd; 11-10-2018 at 14:48.

  2. #2
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    FYI
    "Max" as it relates to the bonuses given last age (having 30 scientists last age) is equivalent to 450K books. Just now, there are 16 types rather than just 7. Consider that 6.5million books takes all your initial scientists learning books the entire age in one category and allocating all the books into one type to make the examples above happen.

    As it stands, if you divide them evenly, you will reach "max" by the end of the age in only 14 types.

    Of course...you get ~20 new scientists (without revelation/labs) in a 12YR age, so you should easily max out all 16 types.

    EDIT: Also...my math could be wrong of course...
    Last edited by smercjd; 11-10-2018 at 12:11.

  3. #3
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    Haven't checked any of your math. But I'm confident that either spawn rate and/or category mods and/or the whole system will change for next age. This 5 weeks age is a test age, and I would guess that Jeff and David accelerated sci to be comparatively quick, as to simulate a longer age.

    Edit: On test server you could gain runes casting on ritual for instance, so the code is worrisome, but I doubt it'll be allowed to work like that during a real live age.
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  4. #4
    Post Demon Avenger's Avatar
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    Your calcs are for 12 weeks. Their scaling is specifically for 5.
    My personal opinion is that production per rank needs to be considerably toned down to make re-assign somewhat viable, along with increasing the number of starting scientists.
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  5. #5
    Sir Postalot Pillz's Avatar
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    +1 for ShadowHearT in signature!

    And while I tend to agree with hextor, this whole thing is a mistake.

    We've been promised genesis for almost two years. Here we are running a 5 week test age on wol

  6. #6
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    I totally had missed that it was such a short age.

    Yeah...nobody will really be reaching those numbers anywa

  7. #7
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    not sure I follow, with diminishing returns from the very first books put into a category the curve should make it rather impossible to reach such numbers in the first place as you would need an infinite number of books at some point to get further increase in bonuses. And even if it was possible to get that kind of bonuses the number of books needed would add a lot of network.

    It is also not possible to have a reduction of more than 100% that would be rather silly then you are talking about a bonus and no longer an expense, it would be like trying to divide a number by 0, so I would considder such a thing a bug in the coding if it was possible.
    Furthermore I think Carthage should be destroyed and Dryads brought back to the game

  8. #8
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Well, no matter how much they diminish, there is still some return. and if you focus over the course of the age, millions of books can indeed produce huge effects, even with the curves they are using.

    The problem is that theoretically it IS possible to have such reduction, hence the thread.

  9. #9
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    Welcome back smerc

  10. #10
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Welcome back smerc
    Thanks, haha ^_^

  11. #11
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Can't go negative afaik.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Can't go negative afaik.
    The code allows negative. Test server casters got refunded runes from ritual casts with a net gain.
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  13. #13
    Game Support Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole View Post
    The code allows negative. Test server casters got refunded runes from ritual casts with a net gain.
    That was the test server, live was changed due to test server testing.
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  14. #14
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Can't go negative afaik.
    But can you reach 100% reduction?

    If so...maybe a cube root rather than square root for diminishing returns after a certain point (like the previous soft cap science amounts)?

  15. #15
    Enthusiast Minty's Avatar
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    I would think dmg reduction from ops is alot more powerful than increased dmg. A cow that pumps sci whole age will eventually be untouchable, save for duration spells/ops

    If you ran max schools and libs from oop and 5 weeks forward you'll have 11M science. 9 weeks would mean 35M science.


    At Y9, having 85% BE, 50%pop, 70ME and still having half your science to spend is obviously ridiculous. I dont even think the "gamebreaking" sciences comes close to that in OPness. Sure you can have -70% dmg but you could also have +400% magic science. Who is getting through that in the first place?

    I do think you are on to something, that there should be a soft cap where square becomes cube
    Last edited by Minty; 13-10-2018 at 21:49.

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