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Thread: Suggestions for Age 79

  1. #1
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Suggestions for Age 79

    (I'll try to keep changed/added suggestions light blue, and previous values that are to be changed/removed pink)

    Age 79 Changes Suggestions



    I. MECHANICS (Science)


    Idea: Science, if kept the way it is, is too strong. These suggestions help to balance science for a longer age by reducing multipliers across the board, and a slight decrease to spawn rate. Learns are also too strong out of war, but too weak in war.

    Learn Attack: Out of War, Unallocated books = Base ~12%; [~30%]; Allocated books = Base ~3%; [~5%]
    Learn Attack: In War, Base ~6%; [~4%]
    Amnesia: Base per cast ~1-1.8%; [~ .5-.9][No longer available to all, still war only]
    Universities: Base 2.7% [1.8%], Max 75%
    Scientist Spawn Rate = Base .5%[1%]
    Science Bonus = Base SQRT(# of Books) * Multiplier

    ECONOMY-----Multiplier-----Previous Multiplier
    Alchemy-----------0.025-----0.0592
    Tools---------------0.015-----0.0424
    Housing------------0.01------0.0254
    Production---------0.15------0.254
    Bookkeeping-------0.02------0.051
    Artisan-------------0.0125----0.034

    WARFARE-----Multiplier-----Previous Multiplier
    Strategy------------0.0167-----0.034
    Siege---------------0.015-------0.03
    Tactics--------------0.0167-----0.034
    Valor----------------0.025-------0.0424
    Heroism-------------0.02--------0.034
    EDIT: Fortify-------------0.005------N/A

    ARCANE ARTS---Multiplier-----Previous Multiplier
    Crime----------------0.067------0.152
    Channeling----------0.067------0.186
    Shielding------------0.005------0.034
    Cunning-------------0.01--------0.034
    Invocation-----------0.025------0.042
    Divination-----------0.025------N/A

    EDIT:*Fortify = Decrease Gains from Enemy attacks
    *Divination = Decreased Penalties from NW differences, Decreased Losses from Failed Operations
    *Invocation = Ritual Rune Cost Reduction, Refund Runes from Failed Spells
    Reassigning Scientists Drops them by 1 level of experience
    Professor -> Graduate with 14400 experience -> Novice with 2400 -> Recruit with 0


    II. Races


    Avian
    Bonuses
    -33% Attack Time [-30%]
    +33% Birth Rate [+40%]
    +33% Specialist Credits from Attacks [+35%]
    Immunity to Pitfalls

    Penalties
    Cannot use War Horses/Stables
    [-5% Battle Gains]

    Spell Book: Town Watch, Clear Sight [Fanaticism, Greater Protection]
    EDIT:Elite: 8/3 [8/3] NW: 9.5 [9] Cost: 1100 [900]


    Dwarf
    Bonuses
    +20% Building Efficiency [+25%]
    Free Building Construction
    -25% Building Construction Time [-50%]

    Penalties
    +100% Food Consumption [+75%]
    [Can't Use Accelerated Construction]

    Spell Book: Mystic Aura, Fool’s Gold [Inspire Army]
    EDIT:Elite: 4/8 [7/4] NW: 10.25 [9] Cost: 1300 [925]


    Light Elf [Elf]
    Bonuses
    +15% WPA [+35%]
    +33% Tower Efficiency [+30%]
    +1 Defensive Specialist
    Empowered Nature’s Blessing (100% Cures Plague, Removes Storms/Droughts in addition to preventing)

    Penalties
    +25% Wages [+30%]

    Spell Book: Chastity, Tornadoes, Greater Protection [Inspire Army]
    EDIT:Elite: 7/5 [8/3] NW: 10 [9.5] Cost: 1250 [950]


    Shadow Elf
    Bonuses
    +1 Mana
    +20% Instant Spell Damage
    -25% Honor Losses
    Empowered Shadowlight (Does not expire on enemy thievery attempt, remains active for duration)

    Penalties
    -25% Effectiveness from Honor

    Spell Book: Invisibility, Mage’s Fury, Quick Feet
    EDIT:Elite: 8/4 NW: 9.25 Cost: 1400


    Faery
    Bonuses
    +33% Self-Spell Duration [+30%]
    +20% Sabotage Operation Damage
    +1 Stealth

    Penalties
    -5% Population [-10% Income]

    Spell Book: Tree of Gold, Greater Protection, Mystic Aura, Animate Dead, Town Watch
    EDIT:Elite: 2/9 [3/8] NW: 10.5 [10] Cost: 1500 [1100]


    Halfling
    Bonuses
    +15% Thievery Effectiveness (TPA) [+30%]
    +15% Population [+7%]
    -50% Thief Costs
    +1 Soldier Offense and Defense

    Penalties
    -10% Building Effectiveness [-5%]

    Spell Book: Aggression, Town Watch Quick Feet
    EDIT:Elite: 6/6 [5/7] NW: 9.0 [9.5] Cost: 1150 [900]


    Human
    Bonuses
    +20% Income [+30%]
    +20% Economy Sciences Effectiveness
    +1 Horses Strength
    +50% Stables Capacity
    Immunity to Income Penalties

    Penalties
    EDIT: +50% Rune Cost
    [-10% WPA]

    Spell Book: Inspire Army, Revelation [Greater Protection, Quick Feet]
    EDIT:Elite: 5/7 [8/3] NW: 9.25 [9.5] Cost: 1250 [1100]


    Orc
    Bonuses
    +20% Battle Gains
    -75% Draft Costs
    +25% Draft Speed
    +15% Enemy Casualties when attacking

    Penalties
    -10% Arcane Arts Sciences Effectiveness [-10% Science Effectiveness]
    +10% Military Casualties

    Spell Book: Reflect Magic
    EDIT:Elite: 9/2 [9/2] NW: 10 [9] Cost: 1400 [925]



    II. Personalities


    The Heretic
    Guilds +75% Effectiveness [+100%]
    Wizards don’t die on failed spells
    -50% Thief Losses on failed sabotage [-66%]
    +20% Arcane Arts Sciences Effectiveness [+40% Channeling/Crime]
    +1 Mana
    Spells: Blizzard, Nightmare, Fool's Gold, Amnesia [Chastity]
    Start: +200 Wizards, +400 Thieves


    The Mystic
    Guilds +150% Effectiveness [+200%]
    +20% Offensive Spell Duration
    +50% Channeling Science Effectiveness [+100%]
    Spells: Meteor Showers, Paradise, Mage's Fury, Amnesia, Revelation [Chastity]
    Start: +400 Wizards


    The Paladin
    Guilds +50% Effectiveness
    EDIT: Can cast Paladin Only spells on Kingdom mates at -1 mana cost
    +50% Valor Science Effectiveness
    [+30% Dragon-Slaying Unit Strength]
    Spells: Paladin Spells
    Start: +200 Wizards, +400 Soldiers, +200 Elites


    The Rogue
    Guilds +50% Effectiveness
    Thieve’s Dens +50% Effectiveness [+75%]
    Access to all Thievery Operations Including Rogue Only
    +50% Crime Science Effectiveness
    +1 Stealth
    Spells: Gluttony, Paradise, Invisibility, Revelation
    Start: +800 Thieves


    The Sage
    +25% Scientist Spawn Rate
    +25% Books From Scientists
    +50% Laboratories, Schools, and Universities Effectiveness
    Immune to Amnesia
    Spells: Amnesia, Revelation
    Start: +100% Starting Scientists



    The Tactician
    -15% Attack Time
    Accurate Espionage
    +20% Warfare Sciences Effectiveness
    +10% Thievery Effectiveness (TPA)
    Spells: Invisibility, Greater Protection [Clear Sight, Fanaticism]
    Start: +400 Soldiers, +400 Specialist Credits, +400 Thieves


    The Undead
    Spreads and is Immune to the Plague
    -50% Offensive Military Casualties [-30% Military Casualties]
    -100% Food Consumption
    +25% Offensive Spell Effectiveness
    Spells: Animate Dead, Nightmares [Greater Protection]
    Start: +200 Wizards, +400 Soldiers. +400 Specialist Credits


    The War Hero
    +100% Honor Bonuses
    +1 Offense Specialist Strength
    EDIT: +50% Heroism Science Effectiveness
    [Immunity to Dragons]
    Convert Specialists into Elites
    Spells: War Spoils
    Start: +800 Elites


    The Cleric
    -50% Defensive Military Casualties
    +10% Magic Effectiveness (WPA)
    +33% Shielding and Divination Sciences Effectiveness
    Spells: Chastity, Fanaticism, Greater Protection, Divine Shield**
    Start: +200 Wizards, +400 Soldiers, +400 Specialist Credits



    The Warrior
    +10% Offensive Military Effectiveness
    Full Conquest Access
    +50% Siege Science Effectiveness
    Spells: Bloodlust
    Start: +800 Soldiers, +800 Specialist Credits
    Last edited by smercjd; 15-11-2018 at 01:17.

  2. #2
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    The fact that we have science that increases battle gains but none that reduces gains means that chaining and killing provinces will be a lot easier. We need a science that reduces gains.

    Elite numbers are too much imo. The current numbers are fine. 10/2 orc and humans get 5/7?

    Why not call it Elf and Dark Elf? Shadow Elf elites can be 7/4. I like the empowered spells, but I think it's easier to just create 2 new ones.

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    Your changes ruin halfling.

    EDIT: Or maybe makes it too strong. I can't decide.

  4. #4
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Haven't read it all, but I like the Invocation addition of rune refund... I also agree that with battle gains sci, should come battle gains protection, just like Cunning has Shielding.

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    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmoheadbutt View Post
    The fact that we have science that increases battle gains but none that reduces gains means that chaining and killing provinces will be a lot easier. We need a science that reduces gains.

    Elite numbers are too much imo. The current numbers are fine. 10/2 orc and humans get 5/7?

    Why not call it Elf and Dark Elf? Shadow Elf elites can be 7/4. I like the empowered spells, but I think it's easier to just create 2 new ones.
    1) Hmm, you're right in terms of symmety, but I'm unsure if the Utopian overlords like this...previous ones certainly didn't. Plus, we do have Guard-Stations. Furthermore, gains reduction would have to be a very low number, like Shielding. If that were true, I think it could certainly fit. Maybe instead of "Bravery, which is currently set to honor related gains/reduction," it could be Fortify - and multiplier similar to Shielding 0.005 [ Will update ]

    2) I think it's really disturbing (and this could be completely an OCD thing) to have elites that are the same for so many races...as it stands we have 3 races with 8/3 elite values... For humans, Elites would act more defensively in this case. The point is, Humans can become better banker provinces (but not too overpowered, hence the WPA penalty). I, personally, enjoy the variety that comes from differing playstyles and I would think that a Human like this would provide a whole different angle to strategies. Rather than, well I have 5 attacking races that are almost all the same...that said, I did lower total values of all elites by 1...maybe it's a little better

    3) What's wrong with Shadow Elf? New spells work, too - I'm not certain on what's easy for programmers. Elites may be a bit on the strong side, I agree. I dont' like 7/4 though...hmmm
    Last edited by smercjd; 08-11-2018 at 23:48.

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    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andurilas View Post
    Your changes ruin halfling.

    EDIT: Or maybe makes it too strong. I can't decide.
    Can you elaborate as to why on both cases?

  7. #7
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    Haven't read it all, but I like the Invocation addition of rune refund... I also agree that with battle gains sci, should come battle gains protection, just like Cunning has Shielding.
    Yay! I'd love to hear your thoughts. :)
    And I agree, and made an edit to the gains reduction science.

  8. #8
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    1) Personally I'm against all kinds of immunity because there is no counter to it. So fb/amnesia/dragon etc. should be gone and never, ever, ever put into the game... ever.

    2) Since the 'cast spells on kd mates' mechanic was introduced RM and CS should be removed from races if a perso has the mechanic or persos if a race has the mechanic. Otherwise you will get a KD full with orc/avian palas casting rm/cs/that pala bulls**t on heres/mystics and have fun.

    3) In your suggestion there are only 2 races that seem fit for a tm role - faery(rogue) and halfer(mystic/here). Halfer with bonus pop and 8 base def on the elite is above a faery with -5% pop but 9 base value. Faery/r is better because the +1 stealth and +20% sab dmg, and halfer is great for the extra tpa making mystic/here stronger in thievery.
    Elf is nowhere close with 7 base def. Probably that was the idea - making elf/dwarf more of a hybrid.

    4) I'm not sure it's a good idea to give bonus for an entire category. Seems just too much.

    5) I'm against shielding/fortify(are fortify and bravery the same?). The thing with this two science types is there can't be a balance(just like sage) - either too strong or too weak.

    6) You didn't mention any changes on book production so I assume it stays the same?

    7) Nerfing mystic/heres guilds bonus is fine as long as rogue losses the guilds bonus.

  9. #9
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    1) Personally I'm against all kinds of immunity because there is no counter to it. So fb/amnesia/dragon etc. should be gone and never, ever, ever put into the game... ever.

    2) Since the 'cast spells on kd mates' mechanic was introduced RM and CS should be removed from races if a perso has the mechanic or persos if a race has the mechanic. Otherwise you will get a KD full with orc/avian palas casting rm/cs/that pala bulls**t on heres/mystics and have fun.

    3) In your suggestion there are only 2 races that seem fit for a tm role - faery(rogue) and halfer(mystic/here). Halfer with bonus pop and 8 base def on the elite is above a faery with -5% pop but 9 base value. Faery/r is better because the +1 stealth and +20% sab dmg, and halfer is great for the extra tpa making mystic/here stronger in thievery.
    Elf is nowhere close with 7 base def. Probably that was the idea - making elf/dwarf more of a hybrid.

    4) I'm not sure it's a good idea to give bonus for an entire category. Seems just too much.

    5) I'm against shielding/fortify(are fortify and bravery the same?). The thing with this two science types is there can't be a balance(just like sage) - either too strong or too weak.

    6) You didn't mention any changes on book production so I assume it stays the same?

    7) Nerfing mystic/heres guilds bonus is fine as long as rogue losses the guilds bonus.
    1) Interesting. You're right that there's no *direct* counter to it...but you can definitely get around it through other ways.

    2) But RM is already on Orc and we already have Paladin, is this happening already? Why would it suddenly start appearing? Also - I'm not sure how the mechanic works, can Paladin cast *any* self-spell on other races or just Paladin spells? I thought it was just Paladin-only spells that they could cast on others. I guess it does just say "support" spells...

    3)
    --a) Faery also has Greater Protection...but halfling is more versatile with what to do with its population. Furthermore, forts are inherently more effective on Faeries than Halfling AND Halfling has -10% BE on top of that.
    --b) I'm not sure what point you're making - I don't think you can choose two personalities "Mystic/Heretic" also I'd say Halfling/Rogue or Halfling/Tactician would be the strongest in thievery...I think I am misunderstanding.
    --c) I see what you're saying about Light Elf and will adjust it a bit.
    --d) Yes, that was the idea, to have a bit more hybriding options. (Please see Cleric/Tactician for more on that).

    4) The Science Category bonuses? They are modest bonuses, and with the sciences nerfed as as suggested, it'd be extremely difficult (impossible) to reach game-breaking numbers.

    5) Ok, the pervious replies were in favor of them. I, too, am sort of against them, but that's why I suggested a mega nerf to them. With very very low modifier values, you can still focus on pumping those sciences and reaching a number that is beneficial, but it can never be game-breaking.
    --For example, with the current science, 1 million books in Shielding = 33.9% Reduction in Ops Damage
    --However, with the suggested science, 1 million books in Shielding = 5% Reduction in Ops Damage
    NOTE: You might be thinking, but wait that's a MASSIVE nerf and why have a pointless science? But if you look at the modifiers, everything was nerfed. So 1 million books in bonus Sabotage damage = 10% Increase in Ops Damage -- close to cancelling each other out. It is slightly in favor of the offensive science, but that can't break the game.
    NOTE 2: With the suggested numbers, 50% reduction in ops/gains is only attained with 100 million books.

    6) Yes, I think book production is fine. The only difference is re-assigning scienctists.

    7) Rogue and Paladin have +50% which is very modest. Heretic at +75% is still more, and Mystic at +150% still substantially more. I think that the current numbers are unbalanced and this is my suggestion to balance it.

    OVERALL NOTE: The point with these suggestions is nerfing modifiers all around.
    Currently a Halfling/Rogue with 1 million books in Crime and maxed TD's = x5.2 modifier
    Suggested Halfling/Rogue with 1 million books in Crim and maxed TD's = x4 modifier
    -- What this does is puts a strong emphasis on the raw numbers to attain the higher values.

    **Furthermore, current economy makes this game too easy to train/build/manage province/etc. You almost never have to worry about banks/armouries/mills etc...sure you can get those things to help your achieve a certain goal more quickly...but you really never *need* them. Heck 1 million books in Alchemy is +60% income...like, for real? It's all too much. Nerfing modifiers in science and spiking elite prices helps make the game a little more challening in terms of province management. Makes econ warring a more viable strategy (though not the only one)...etc.**

    Compare current science to suggested ones by amount (1 million books in all of them)
    Currently Suggested
    59.20 Income 25.00
    42.30 BE 15.00
    25.40 Population 10.00
    254.00 Food&Rune 150.00
    50.50 Wage Reduction 20.00
    33.60 Build Time Reduction 12.50
    33.90 DME 16.70
    30.00 Gains 15.00
    33.90 OME 16.70
    42.30 Train Time Reduction & Dragon Slay 25.00
    33.90 Draft Speed & Cost Reduction 20.00
    152.00 TPA 67.00
    186.00 WPA 67.00
    33.90 Reduce Ops Damage 5.00
    33.90 Increase Ops Damage 10.00
    42.30 Ritual Rune Cost Reduction 25.00

    As you can see, modifiers are significantly lower. If sciences were to remain as they are now, in an age with more than twice the amount of time as this age, broken numbers could be reached relatively easily.
    Last edited by smercjd; 09-11-2018 at 12:07.

  10. #10
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Pala can cast all fading(duration) spells available to the race/perso so yes orc/pala can cast rm on others and our KD has one(almost everyone has at least one for that purpose). Few ages ago faery had that mechanic so faery/tact for CS was also a thing. I'm against both cases - either pala should cast only pala spells or shouldn't have access to cs/rm.

    When I said halfer is better for mystic/here I meant halfer/r isn't better than f/r. The thing with rogue is it doesn't need more tpa. With max effect on tds and bonus crime sci your mod tpa is already higher than everyone else. Mystic and here could use the bonus tpa to compensate but +1 stealth and +20% sab dmg is much better for rogue(also no -BE which is also important for rogue).

    I didn't say elf is a bad I meant I don't see it good for pure t/m compared with halfer and faery.

    The thing with rogue, here and mystic is that only rogue has ga/aw/prop and the other two do need higher wpa for their special spells(nm and ms). Before getting the bonus rogue hardly was able to maintain 4+ wpa especially if it must grow during eowcf, now it's easy to maintain 5+.

    I also like the current book production - the difference between recruit and prof is noticeable.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by smercjd View Post
    1) Hmm, you're right in terms of symmety, but I'm unsure if the Utopian overlords like this...previous ones certainly didn't. Plus, we do have Guard-Stations. Furthermore, gains reduction would have to be a very low number, like Shielding. If that were true, I think it could certainly fit. Maybe instead of "Bravery, which is currently set to honor related gains/reduction," it could be Fortify - and multiplier similar to Shielding 0.005 [ Will update ]

    2) I think it's really disturbing (and this could be completely an OCD thing) to have elites that are the same for so many races...as it stands we have 3 races with 8/3 elite values... For humans, Elites would act more defensively in this case. The point is, Humans can become better banker provinces (but not too overpowered, hence the WPA penalty). I, personally, enjoy the variety that comes from differing playstyles and I would think that a Human like this would provide a whole different angle to strategies. Rather than, well I have 5 attacking races that are almost all the same...that said, I did lower total values of all elites by 1...maybe it's a little better

    3) What's wrong with Shadow Elf? New spells work, too - I'm not certain on what's easy for programmers. Elites may be a bit on the strong side, I agree. I dont' like 7/4 though...hmmm
    Good to see you added the Fortify science.

    Good to see you lowered the elite values. I think that choosing a race shouldn't be based on elite values as much, but more about what the races' individual perks. Dwarf 6/6 will be unplayable, considering that mounted orc elite is 11/2.

  12. #12
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    On Halfling, this age it works QUITE well with War Hero, or in its usual Rogue role. The nerfs to BE and TPA aren't offset enough by the pop bonus. I've always liked the idea of Halfling getting a sizable TPA boost (35% maybe) and a sizable pop bonus (15% or higher), but with weak-ish units. Going the direction of your changes, I'd rather see halfling with something like 18% population bonus and a 5/6 elite or something.

    Another big red flag for me is the increase to elite NW while also making it a defense-only unit for all practical purposes. These two things are not inconsistent (I agree a */8 elite needs to be more nw heavy), but are both things that raise questions in my mind. But I now see you increase nw values for almost all elites, so maybe it's fine.

    EDIT:

    As for too strong, it's the elite defense that is getting me there too.

  13. #13
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    As for science, I'd like to see:

    • faster scientist generation with reduced books per scientists
    • additional ranks--maybe Student (100), Researcher (200), Novice (400), Master (700), Professor (1000), Provost (1200), Chancellor (2000), possibly limit the number of Provosts and Chancellors in each category
    • some adjustment to balancing; I tent to agree with you that it's too easy and too strong, even though it's a lot of fun to play with

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    If halflings get +18% pop, their elite values should be 5/5 or 4/6. I do like the idea of halflings behaving like zergs: rely on numbers, not economical at all, but can grow really quickly if left unchecked, and cheap disposable units.

  15. #15
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmoheadbutt View Post
    If halflings get +18% pop, their elite values should be 5/5 or 4/6. I do like the idea of halflings behaving like zergs: rely on numbers, not economical at all, but can grow really quickly if left unchecked, and cheap disposable units.
    I think they used to be somewhat like that actually...I remember a time when their elites were 4/4 or something along those lines (specs were 5/0 and 0/4 for them I believe)...but they had +20% population bonus? It was quite high...and I thought that was definitely a boost to the game variety.

    Honestly, those are good suggestions and I think that when we all work together to comment on each other's suggestions, hopefully that encourages some of these changes to be considered.

    So I adjusted Halfling Pop Bonus to +15% and their elites to 6/6, and gave Dwarf 4/8 Elites...which makes them a super tank...
    Last edited by smercjd; 13-11-2018 at 19:00.

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