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Thread: Race/Personality Strategy

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    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Race/Personality Strategy

    http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ons-for-Age-79

    If the above changes were made...

    1. Which race/personality would you personally pick and why?

    2. How would you divvy them up for a good kingdom setup and why?

    3. What do you like most about them and why?

    4. What do you like least about them and why?

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    sorry in all respectfullness don't support that players dictate a full set of changes, please limit yourself to some racial or mechanical changes that youthink we need then I can give you my oppinion, ballancing is not up to us to decide, only the proposed changes gives a picture of how the devs will want to ballance things so I'm of course commenting on them if I feel that is needed.

    Pretty sure science will be recalculated and either have returns or book production halved or something since next age is likely twice as long.
    Furthermore I think Carthage should be destroyed and Dryads brought back to the game

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    Avians are very strong.
    Dwarves are nerfed to the ground?
    Light elf is way worse than current elf, may see some picks but bleh.
    Shadow elf seems squishy, forced to be an attacker but nothing that makes it good at attacking.
    Fae is probably going to be 65% of TMs and is too strong.
    Halfer is going to be the rest of the TMs and too strong.
    Human might be able to do something with a sci advantage, but at a 7/7 army is like a bad dwarf/sage most ages.
    Orc is going to be every attacker that isn't avian.

    Going through pers now. Heretic gets nerfed 2* over, once in lowered effect, and again being the TM race with no rev.
    Losing Chas in a avian age on mystics and heretics? Also losing half their sci bonus, mystics are screwed while elf is screwed also...
    Paladin can now only cast paladin spells on allies? I guess, seems lame but pali is still needed.
    Rogue to 150% TD instead of 175% I think is a good change, rogue feels too easy.
    Sage seems broken AF. Either sci is a waste of time for everyone, or sage is mindblowingly over powered. As is there's no way for it to be both.
    Tact seems alright. Probably weak but oh well.
    Undead seems very strong.
    Cleric seems very meh.
    WH unchanged, super strong.
    Warrior just lags behind generally, but perhaps with those gains sci...

    The way I see it, especially with basically every elite cost going up like 40%, You will have a server of like 50% avians, largely war heros. Orc warriors maxing opa and gains. Then just a lot of fae and halfling mystics and rogues. I'm basically ignoring sage because it would have to be changed.

    I don't like the way you ****ed around with everything's self spells, it seems very random and to serve no purpose.

    *Divination = Decreased Penalties from NW differences, Decreased Losses from Failed Operations
    *Invocation = Ritual Rune Cost Reduction, Refund Runes from Failed Spells
    Reassigning Scientists Drops them by 1 level of experience

    I actually like all 3 of these a lot. Probably my favorite idea you show here.

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    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    sorry in all respectfullness don't support that players dictate a full set of changes, please limit yourself to some racial or mechanical changes that youthink we need then I can give you my oppinion, ballancing is not up to us to decide, only the proposed changes gives a picture of how the devs will want to ballance things so I'm of course commenting on them if I feel that is needed.

    Pretty sure science will be recalculated and either have returns or book production halved or something since next age is likely twice as long.
    Why reply at all, then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000 View Post
    Avians are very strong.
    Dwarves are nerfed to the ground?
    Light elf is way worse than current elf, may see some picks but bleh.
    Shadow elf seems squishy, forced to be an attacker but nothing that makes it good at attacking.
    Fae is probably going to be 65% of TMs and is too strong.
    Halfer is going to be the rest of the TMs and too strong.
    Human might be able to do something with a sci advantage, but at a 7/7 army is like a bad dwarf/sage most ages.
    Orc is going to be every attacker that isn't avian.

    Going through pers now. Heretic gets nerfed 2* over, once in lowered effect, and again being the TM race with no rev.
    Losing Chas in a avian age on mystics and heretics? Also losing half their sci bonus, mystics are screwed while elf is screwed also...
    Paladin can now only cast paladin spells on allies? I guess, seems lame but pali is still needed.
    Rogue to 150% TD instead of 175% I think is a good change, rogue feels too easy.
    Sage seems broken AF. Either sci is a waste of time for everyone, or sage is mindblowingly over powered. As is there's no way for it to be both.
    Tact seems alright. Probably weak but oh well.
    Undead seems very strong.
    Cleric seems very meh.
    WH unchanged, super strong.
    Warrior just lags behind generally, but perhaps with those gains sci...

    The way I see it, especially with basically every elite cost going up like 40%, You will have a server of like 50% avians, largely war heros. Orc warriors maxing opa and gains. Then just a lot of fae and halfling mystics and rogues. I'm basically ignoring sage because it would have to be changed.

    I don't like the way you ****ed around with everything's self spells, it seems very random and to serve no purpose.

    *Divination = Decreased Penalties from NW differences, Decreased Losses from Failed Operations
    *Invocation = Ritual Rune Cost Reduction, Refund Runes from Failed Spells
    Reassigning Scientists Drops them by 1 level of experience

    I actually like all 3 of these a lot. Probably my favorite idea you show here.
    1. Avian - They're basically the same as now
    2. Dwarf - Good point...I'll adjust
    3. Light Elf - I don't think so...at least not in relation to other nerfs that occured
    4. Shadow Elf - It's more intended to be an A/M hybrid. +1 mana & +20% Instant Dmg. Also more able to retain honor on a province that is likely good at making it.
    5. Faery - Yeah, might be too strong...I think a strong penalty maybe
    6. Halfling - I think this one is pretty balanced
    7. Human - Horses are +3 power on them, so I'm not sure where you're getting 7/7. On Specs, they're at 9 offense, on elites, they're at 8...
    8. Orc - I think they're pretty balanced.

    --Overall on races, seems you're mostly concerned with the elite power/defense values. Or at least, that it weights mostly in your evaluation. I wonder if I underestimate those values.

    9. Oops. I forgot to give them Revelation, tbh. They are too strong, though, compared to others...+40/40 on crime/channeling. Rogue only had +50...that's basically the same.
    10. Yes, only Cleric and Light Elf can get chastity this way. But I don't think it'd be as many Avian as you. People enjoy playing new things. Also Mystics are not screwed...they're still easily the strongest mages and only MS'rs. Plus, notice all sciences got nerfed (and science bonuses)...while yes they are nerfed compared to this age - in relation to the changes as a whole, they're still the strongest in all the same ways. For instance: 50/20 = 2.5 (Mystic vs Heretic) vs 100/40 = 2.5 (Mystic vs Heretic). Both were cut by the same amount.
    11. Yes. Others pointed out, and I agree, that casting self spells on others is too strong -- especially with CS/RM on races. Not even too strong really, but - forcing someone in the kd to play a dump role is something I don't like about games. I wouldn't want some dictator monarch out there making one poor chap play the Avian/Paladin so their whole KD can get CS...
    12. Rogue. Yay.
    13. Sage - Well Science being so nerfed, they'd definitely have more than others...I don't think it's that OP. During wars, changes are they won't be running those buildings anyway, so it's an inconsistent bonus. +25% spawn rate is not very much...8% labs can get you that amount...also with spawn rate dropped to .5%, this really isn't much. The +25% books is the biggest one, IMO. Takes about 15% schools to get that amount. Nothing increases their effectiveness for science which is the stronger of the bonuses and all that is found in other races/personalities.
    14. Tactician - I think tact is currently on the weak side and those bonuses would help them be balanced. I wouldn't say weak anymore.
    15. Undead - Hmm...why so?
    16. Cleric - "Meh?" ... "meh????" ... They look so cool!!!!!
    17. War Hero - Unchanged? They lose immunity to dragons :O
    18. Warrior - yes, the gains sci *evil grin*

    They way you see it ...
    Yes, the point was to increase to econ difficult rating, however - that makes sense about the Avian...However, however...I think Avian is strong early, but later, the other attackers catch up. Avian/War Hero lose that dragon immunity, meanwhile you have Undead/Cleric with bonuses that could really help Avian.
    Plus...you really think people would just play those race/pers??? With all these changes and new fun things? Like Shadow Elf/Undead looks pretty sweet. Human/War Hero looks like it could manage better than Avians is some regard and with conversion to strong defense elite...

    There is a purpose, it's not just random. The purpose is more based on what I imagine they'd have realistically rather than for balance, though - and that could be problematic...but I think it makes it enjoyable ^_^

    Glad you liked those three and thank you for pointing those out as well as commenting with your opinions :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by smercjd View Post
    Plus...you really think people would just play those race/pers??? With all these changes and new fun things? Like Shadow Elf/Undead looks pretty sweet. Human/War Hero looks like it could manage better than Avians is some regard and with conversion to strong defense elite...
    That depends on whether you're balancing for ghettos or balancing for top 20 kds.

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    I looked just for fun. You hate Dwarves bro? 6/6 elites almost useless, building time critical for war. Tools science nerfed so bad to go along with -5% BE, you effectively gave them permanent Gold dragon. So you want to lower everything that affects their food production and raise their consumption?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smercjd View Post
    1. Avian - They're basically the same as now
    2. Dwarf - Good point...I'll adjust
    3. Light Elf - I don't think so...at least not in relation to other nerfs that occured
    4. Shadow Elf - It's more intended to be an A/M hybrid. +1 mana & +20% Instant Dmg. Also more able to retain honor on a province that is likely good at making it.
    5. Faery - Yeah, might be too strong...I think a strong penalty maybe
    6. Halfling - I think this one is pretty balanced
    7. Human - Horses are +3 power on them, so I'm not sure where you're getting 7/7. On Specs, they're at 9 offense, on elites, they're at 8...
    8. Orc - I think they're pretty balanced.

    --Overall on races, seems you're mostly concerned with the elite power/defense values. Or at least, that it weights mostly in your evaluation. I wonder if I underestimate those values.

    9. Oops. I forgot to give them Revelation, tbh. They are too strong, though, compared to others...+40/40 on crime/channeling. Rogue only had +50...that's basically the same.
    10. Yes, only Cleric and Light Elf can get chastity this way. But I don't think it'd be as many Avian as you. People enjoy playing new things. Also Mystics are not screwed...they're still easily the strongest mages and only MS'rs. Plus, notice all sciences got nerfed (and science bonuses)...while yes they are nerfed compared to this age - in relation to the changes as a whole, they're still the strongest in all the same ways. For instance: 50/20 = 2.5 (Mystic vs Heretic) vs 100/40 = 2.5 (Mystic vs Heretic). Both were cut by the same amount.
    11. Yes. Others pointed out, and I agree, that casting self spells on others is too strong -- especially with CS/RM on races. Not even too strong really, but - forcing someone in the kd to play a dump role is something I don't like about games. I wouldn't want some dictator monarch out there making one poor chap play the Avian/Paladin so their whole KD can get CS...
    12. Rogue. Yay.
    13. Sage - Well Science being so nerfed, they'd definitely have more than others...I don't think it's that OP. During wars, changes are they won't be running those buildings anyway, so it's an inconsistent bonus. +25% spawn rate is not very much...8% labs can get you that amount...also with spawn rate dropped to .5%, this really isn't much. The +25% books is the biggest one, IMO. Takes about 15% schools to get that amount. Nothing increases their effectiveness for science which is the stronger of the bonuses and all that is found in other races/personalities.
    14. Tactician - I think tact is currently on the weak side and those bonuses would help them be balanced. I wouldn't say weak anymore.
    15. Undead - Hmm...why so?
    16. Cleric - "Meh?" ... "meh????" ... They look so cool!!!!!
    17. War Hero - Unchanged? They lose immunity to dragons :O
    18. Warrior - yes, the gains sci *evil grin*

    They way you see it ...
    Yes, the point was to increase to econ difficult rating, however - that makes sense about the Avian...However, however...I think Avian is strong early, but later, the other attackers catch up. Avian/War Hero lose that dragon immunity, meanwhile you have Undead/Cleric with bonuses that could really help Avian.
    Plus...you really think people would just play those race/pers??? With all these changes and new fun things? Like Shadow Elf/Undead looks pretty sweet. Human/War Hero looks like it could manage better than Avians is some regard and with conversion to strong defense elite...

    There is a purpose, it's not just random. The purpose is more based on what I imagine they'd have realistically rather than for balance, though - and that could be problematic...but I think it makes it enjoyable ^_^

    Glad you liked those three and thank you for pointing those out as well as commenting with your opinions :)

    1. Avians are arguably strongest and get even stronger here. Immunity to pitfalls, TW when paladins lose the ability, CS!!!! No gains loss. You 3* over buff the strongest core.
    2.Yeah they're just nerfed to ****e.
    3. Is tornado no longer a spell everyone has? Even so not a big bonus. When wpa bonus is dropped to 15%, but defense is 7 compared to 8 of 9 of halfer and fae. A halfer or fae will 100% beat your wpa on the same defense, they save more space with the defense. I don't think it'd get picked up much at all.
    4. It's like undead when it had +mana, and like dark elf with +damage, except it loses the best parts of both, free converts, -losses, no hope for defense... It just doesn't have much going for it. I think however, the +1 mana and new paladin mechanic means you'd see these 100% on paladins.
    5. Don't discount how hard a -pop can hit, but yeah 9 def is INSANE, combined with stealth and damage. It's just op op op.
    6. 10% pop is a HUGE bonus, and having a elite with 15% more defense than before 7->8. The BE hurts it quite a bit if it's playing a rogue. But I think heretics and mystics it wouldn't be much of a problem.
    7. I called it a 7/7 by basically making the ospecs +1 because of the horse power +1. It's worth tho, it's a 7/7 army where you're extra susceptible to horse robbing... You also are losing GP, QF, which is worth a decent amount, lower income. The sci bonuses will have to carry it, but idk that it is enough with nerfed sci.
    8. You buffed the other strong core race, significantly. You buffed most of its sci by 10% and gave it a 25% draft speed bonus? It's crazy strong. You'd have even higher % orc/avian next age than current. I could see maybe orcs beating avians in terms of breaking newly improved defense TMs... But probably you go avian to beat orc and pick TMs that can beat other TMs.

    I don't like a lot of the self spell changes, it seems arbitrary, maybe writing your thoughts behind them to see where you're coming from. What I see is the 2 best cores getting buffs and 2/3 TM races getting buffs. Basically you kick all the elves out of the game and further polarize the avian,orc,halfer,fae spam.

    9. At +20/20 there's no big reason a heretic is even going to be able to land ops/spells. Heavily nerfed, heretics already can struggle against rogues and mystics, but now they'll struggle against core too.
    10. +50% channeling sci vs +100% is a SIGNIFICANT change. When you want 3* mwpa to land a lot of spells consistently, you're nerfing the only thing they got. Granted, the need for MS will always be there, and they heavily dominate MWPA charts already. I think it's a legitimate change, but don't discount how big a nerf it really is. And the way you're saying each was cut by the same amount due to the relative bonuses, doesn't work that way, especially in a root curve sci system. Mystics now need MORE than DOUBLE the books for the same bonus as before. Heretics need like 40% more or whatever it is.
    11. Paladins are strong as long as they exist. Some sap is going to be forced to play them. Idk the best way to "balance" them, but I think they're in an okay spot.
    12. Compared to nerfs to mystic/heretic, rogues are getting off easy, not sure I agree with that. I like 50% TD instead of 75%, but it's not enough given what else was proposed.
    13. Either science as a whole is weak and sage is balanced. Or science is in a good spot and this sage is vastly over powered. You will have upwards of 3* the science or more. The only balance might be that they have no increased protection from learns.
    14. Taking CS from tact is a significant nerf, but you buff it pretty significantly at the same time. Since generally you don't see avian/tact, you basically look at it from an orc/tact standpoint I think. Warfare sci and tpa on an orc are pretty nice, not losing thieves. But the effective land you get from the warfare sci and attack speed must be worth less than the effective land of warrior or undead. Tact is always weak just because speed and 10 thief sends don't translate into power on paper. You maybe get to lap once in a long war, but by the time you get that extra wave, usually war is over one way or another.
    15. Taking recent iterations of undead pers, and giving no food. It may as well be a BE or land bonus, it's just pretty helpful. Having +dmg to fireballs or LL when chained is nice as well. It might not be as very strong as I said, but it's goona be picked for sure.
    16. Idk, it's just a turtle pers for bad players. It doesn't offer anything. Having -damage on ops doesn't mean much if you can still be landed on so easily. And any TM should be able to free cast on you.
    17. Losing immunity to dragons is a decent nerf, but not too significant imo. Not compared to the bonuses it still has. The heroism buff is significant where you want to draft as much as possible on avians and orcs. Every elite went way up in cost with your changes, so being able to get free leets and buffed ospecs. It's probably still the #1 pers pick.
    18. Warrior, idk, it's still good at what it does, just isn't variable. It's fragile and shoe horned.

    Human WH... Hmmm I could see it I guess, but there's been way better fae/wh ages recently and they didn't dominate. Certainly it doesn't compare to the speed of avians or the power of orcs. But yeah it'd be fine.
    Last edited by Bananamancer2000; 10-11-2018 at 21:23.

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