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Thread: Age 79 Proposed Changes - Suggestions and Feedback

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ape View Post
    So you want to be able to do a full-kingdom-wave and not recieve any damage in retal ideally, just a smaller 80% kd accepting the pain and "move on".... and you want to hamper another kingdoms ability to train up and prepare, while you try to prepare... That seems a bit unconstructive and hampering the overall flow and action in terms of wars.... right?
    The same KDs that always seem to get easy farm wars right OOP do seem to gain an advantage from the proposed changes.

  2. #47
    Forum Fanatic octobrev's Avatar
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    Quite the opposite! It makes it easier in general, which should make it available to more people and lessen the advantage. It's similar to what paid sitting did to xlogging or EOWCF to fake war. People are also less inclined to park moles in competitors' KDs as they don't need to hedge against prolonged hostiles.
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  3. #48
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    I like most of the changes but would propose a few tweaks.

    Dwarves don't need a reduction of their BE. Leave it at 125%.

    Reduce human income bonus to +20-25% and reduce their elite cost slightly.

    Vary the elite values a bit more. There's barely any variation there.

    Give warrior a military science effectiveness bonus in addition to their flat OME bonus. Or an OME science effectiveness bonus. Warrior is boring as it stands.

    Finally, give us specifics about the science changes. Monkeying with the science system creates a great deal of uncertainty. It's like not telling us precisely what the race and personalitiy bonuses will be. Only that they will be "faster" or "adjusted." I mean, seriously, science plays a much greater role in province strength than many race and personality bonuses or penalties.

  4. #49
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    If you implement the "Ops/Spells gives Meter Points" then please unlock the MS/Prop/etc so it can be done in normal relations.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    If you implement the "Ops/Spells gives Meter Points" then please unlock the MS/Prop/etc so it can be done in normal relations.
    Seems fair, and meter should now be available to everyone and not an item that needs to be purchased.

  6. #51
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    and unthrottle strength of the ops/spells like how attacks are right now (being it is throttled currently pre-war)
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    thats changed though after 3 hours u can force a CF...just dont op back.

    @smercjd...it used to always be small tweaks for 2 ages big changes every 3. i'll give me a pass on the big racial changes with the war change and science change in back to back ages. unless they tweak honor then next age i'd expect big sweaping racial changes.
    OIC. That makes sense...thanks.

    EDIT: So if it's just tweaking then...here are my suggestions based on the proposed changes.
    Changes in Turquoise
    Removals in Plum

    Races

    Avian

    Bonuses
    -33% Attack travel time
    +33% Birth Rate
    +33% Specialist Credits from Attacks


    Penalties
    Cannot Use War Horses/Stables
    -5% Battle Gains

    Spell book: Fanaticism and Greater Protection
    Elite: Offense: 8 Defense: 3 Networth: 10 Cost: 1000
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Dwarf

    Bonuses
    +20% Building Effectiveness
    +33% Tools and Artisan Science Effectiveness The Sciences that boost BE, and Construction Time & Speed
    Free Building Construction
    -50% Building Construction Time

    Penalties
    Can't use Accelerated Construction
    +100% Food consumption

    Spell book: Mystic Aura, Inspire Army
    Elite: Offense: 7 Defense: 4 Networth: 9.75 Cost: 1125
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Elf

    Bonuses
    +25% WPA
    +33% Tower Efficiency
    +1 Defensive Specialist Strength

    Penalties
    +33% Wages

    Spell book: Chastity, Pitfalls, Remove: Inspire Army Reason: Elves need to feel the wages penalty, IA helps counterbalance it too much
    Elite: Offense: 8 Defense: 3 Networth: 10 Cost: 1000
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Faery

    Bonuses
    +33% Self Spell Duration (will not affect spells on others)
    +20% Sabotage Operation Damage
    +20% Instant Spell Damage

    Penalties
    -15% Income

    Spell book: Greater Protection, Tree of Gold, Animate Dead, Mystic Aura
    Elite: Offense: 3 Defense: 8 Networth: 10.0 Cost: 1200
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Halfling

    Bonuses
    +25% Thievery Effectiveness (TPA)
    +10% Population
    -50% Thief Costs


    Penalties
    -10% Building Effectiveness

    Spell book: Aggression, Town Watch
    Elite: Offense: 5 Defense: 7 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 950
    Soldiers: Offense: 2 Defense: 2

    Human

    Bonuses
    +20% Income
    +20% Economy Science Effectiveness <-- All Sciences in the Economy Category
    Income Penalty Protection
    +20% Credits (Building & Military from Attacks)

    Penalties
    +50% Spell Rune Cost

    Spell book: Remove: Greater Protection, Inspire Army, Quick Feet
    Elite: Offense: 8 Defense: 3 Networth: 10 Cost: 1000
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Orc

    Bonuses
    +20% Battle Gains
    -75% Draft Costs
    +15% Enemy casualties when attacking

    Penalties
    Remove: +10% Military Casualties
    -20% Science Effectiveness

    Spell book: Reflect Magic
    Elite: Offense: 9 Defense: 2 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 925
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


    Personalities

    The Heretic

    All Guilds are 100% more effective
    Wizards do not die on failed spells
    Reduced thief losses on failed operations (-66%)
    Remove: +25% Sorcery and Crime Science Effectiveness
    +20% Arcane Arts Science Effectiveness <-- All the Sciences in the Arcane Arts Category
    Access to Blizzard, Fool's Gold, Nightmare, and Revelation Remove: Chastity
    Starts with +200 Wizards and +400 thieves

    The Mystic

    All Guilds are 200% more effective
    +50% Channeling Science Effectiveness <-- The Science that boosts WPA
    +1 Mana per tick
    Access to Revelation, Meteor Showers, Chastity, Mage's Fury and Paradise
    Starts with +400 Wizards

    The Paladin

    All Guilds are 50% more effective
    +10% Magic Effectiveness (WPA)
    Can cast support spells on Kingdom mates
    Remove: Troops attack dragon with +30% increased power
    +50% Valor Science Effectiveness <-- The science that boosts dragon slaying (and Miltary Training Time)
    Starting Soldiers +400
    Starting Specialist Credits +400
    Starting Wizards +200
    All Paladin Only Spells
    Paladin Only Spells


    The Rogue

    All Guilds are 50% more effective
    +1 Stealth recovery per tick
    Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
    Thieves Dens are 75% more effective
    +50% Crime Science Effectiveness <-- The Science that boosts TPA
    Access to Revelation, Gluttony, Invisibility and Paradise
    Starts with +800 thieves


    The Tactician

    Attack Time -15%
    +10% Thievery Effectiveness
    +33% Strategy & Tactics Science Effectiveness
    <-- The Sciences that boost OME/DME
    Accurate Espionage
    Starting Soldiers +400
    Starting Specialist Credits +400
    Starts with +400 Thieves
    Access to Clear Sight and Fanaticism

    The Undead

    Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
    -35% Military Casualties
    -100% Food Consumption/Requirement
    Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
    Access to Greater Protection and Animate Dead

    The War Hero

    Honor Bonuses +100%
    +1 Offense Specialist strength
    Remove: Dragon Immunity
    Convert Specs into Elites
    +50% Heroism Science Effectiveness <-- The Science that boosts draft speed and reduces draft costs
    Starting Elites +800
    Access to War Spoils and Remove: Pitfalls

    The Warrior

    +15% Offensive Military Efficiency
    +50% Siege Science Effectiveness <-- The Science that Boosts Gains
    Full Conquest Access
    Starting Soldiers +800
    Spec Credits +800
    Access to Bloodlust


    Science
    Invocation: In addition to Reducing Rune Cost for Rituals, also refunds runes from failed spells

    New Science Under Warfare
    Fortify: Decrease Gains From Enemy Attacks


    New Science Under Arcane Arts
    Divination: Decrease Penalties from NW differences, Decrease Losses from Failed Operations
    Last edited by smercjd; 15-11-2018 at 03:51.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    and unthrottle strength of the ops/spells like how attacks are right now (being it is throttled currently pre-war)
    Well, if ops are going to count toward the meter then I think ops need a boost ( damage wise ) oow; and allow them to be done without respect to relations. Does this mean also that if I rob someone blind it can give them the button?
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  9. #54
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    25% WPA on Elves is long overdue (still arguably too strong with the lack of wpa modifiers in Uto). Halfers are far too strong, 25-30% is more than enough. Don't bottleneck rogue players in to playing Halfer. Humans are still very lacking.. credits needs to be reimagined in to something else imo.
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    Heretic should get Revelation too.

  11. #56
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    Why do you hate Humans so much smercjd?


    On current proposed race/perso changes:
    Halfling doesn't need a TPA boost.
    The Mystic swap is fine, but Heretic needs something extra now. Like a bit of Op and Spell Damage.
    Last edited by Avenger; 15-11-2018 at 03:34.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    Why do you hate Humans so much smercjd?


    On current proposed race/perso changes:
    Halfling doesn't need a TPA boost.
    The Mystic swap is fine, but Heretic needs something extra now. Like a bit of Op and Spell Damage.
    Hmm?? Because of Rune Cost boost? Or because remove GP? I feel like +33% Income is a pretty significant boost. Since they would no longer have a penalty to WPA (which is an evil penalty on them) they can actually try to resist mages/fireballs. +50% Rune Cost is the most pathetic penalty out of all the other penalties...the only thing it does it make them not really a great offensive mage...and even that is questionable because Production Science is OP in terms of food/runes...

    And I mean...I'd love to see my change suggestions on them from my post (especially the horses thing), but I'm trying to work with just tweaking numbers since they don't do big changes except every 3 ages...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post

    1)---3 hours isn't very long for a 3 day cf...i'd probably push that to at least 6 hours, i know we want it to be a 'single wave" but some kds can barely wave over 3 hours due to time zones.

    2)If Kingdoms enter war while out of range, Surrender will be available much sooner than traditionally (i.e. 12 hours after start of war)
    ---this isnt long enough at all. if i get waved by a bigger kd and am super active i could litteraly catch them off guard declare, get a wave in war, and surrender before some of them even get armies in. This needs to be 24 hours min.


    3. Just no, its stupid that i can mass cast on u for zero repercussions. or sit and bounce for days. If anything i'd have bounce and ops move the meter faster.




    4.its a team game made up for 20-25 people. if u have people who just randomly op and drag u into fights maybe they arent being a team player.


    5.I mean as it is right now when im learn waving 1/2 my waves result in 0 damage back but a cf and 1/2 respond in a few ops as a piss off, this shouldnt change. Its those few kds where i hit 8-9 times and they mass AW+blanket MS and then wont cf that are like okay now what do i do. I can spend 2-3 days eating ops which is just stupid or i can start smashing the crap outa them. they are going to sit and do **** for days on end anyway why shouldnt i be rewarded if im in a position to beat them and they sit and want to fight back. To that end EVERY mutal engagement should be defined as a war. .
    1. Your first point - do you never have leadership in same time zone and maybe they are asleep when waved?

    2.And maybe if basically those bigger kingdoms want a free learn wave then 'the biter bit' is actually fair!

    3. Why is it retarded? It's a tactic. Bigger more pumped kingdom waves you looking for goodies, you can't take them down right now but maybe if your TMs wear them downa bit while your attackers pump, you can. It helps to control the feeding aspect which is a big turn off to be on the receiving end. It gives you options as opposed to just having to offer a CF and keeps kingdom morale positive

    4. Well duh Sherlock not every team is filled with team players. Why do you think one attacker can't give the button away, don't think anyone just said oh it's a team game? But it's worse with TM ops because you cannot find out who it was. Perfect mole anonymity.

    5. Well you could try learn waving a target who might war instead of picking one 10-15% smaller, believe me you'll never have a problem getting a war then.

    I feel the real issues you raise are that if your kingdom is bigger you should be able to do exactly what you want to who you want without any downsides. The question is more why should you be able to hit anyone smaller with complete impunity? And how long do you think there will be players wanting to play in smaller kingdoms if you get what you want? Killing the game from the bottom is a fast way to an even deader server.

    True shepherds tend the flock not beat them to death and then wonder why there is no more lamb for fine dining...

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCanes420 View Post
    25% WPA on Elves is long overdue (still arguably too strong with the lack of wpa modifiers in Uto). Halfers are far too strong, 25-30% is more than enough. Don't bottleneck rogue players in to playing Halfer. Humans are still very lacking.. credits needs to be reimagined in to something else imo.
    Except 1/2 of the personalities in the game has Guild bonuses, which equates to higher WPA and there are 2 DefWPA booster spells that stacks with each other (then count in NB which negates 2 spells). And dont forget that Spells are weaker than Ops. Lets not get into the area which you cant do ANY with Instant Spells until there is relations.

    Also I am able to hit 3-4 wpa as a non-guild bonus personality, good attackers usually have around 2wpa, while most attackers tends to barely hit 1wpa if at all and usually dont care about their WPA. They deserve no protection from being nuked due to poor play.
    Last edited by RedPanda; 15-11-2018 at 08:14.
    A outerworld vagabond Elf traveling this world.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetiepie View Post
    3. Why is it retarded? It's a tactic. Bigger more pumped kingdom waves you looking for goodies, you can't take them down right now but maybe if your TMs wear them downa bit while your attackers pump, you can. It helps to control the feeding aspect which is a big turn off to be on the receiving end. It gives you options as opposed to just having to offer a CF and keeps kingdom morale positive.
    if u can pump and take someone do it. declare and use us t/ms to wear down people as u hit. the point of oow is that there are HUGE gbp to protect smaller people from being bullied by big asshole kds that wont leave. Its utterly against the spirit of what utopia is to abuse a mechanic by drawing out a fight, dare i say a war, by sitting in normal stance and abusing a mechanic designed to stop someone bigger from being an asshole to war and beat someone. GBP isnt suposed to be exist the way it does oow for two kds who are actually fighting. if your fighting its a war, treat it as such in the game and place those kds into war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetiepie View Post
    4. Well duh Sherlock not every team is filled with team players. Why do you think one attacker can't give the button away, don't think anyone just said oh it's a team game? But it's worse with TM ops because you cannot find out who it was. Perfect mole anonymity.
    possibly, maybe adding a intra kd ops in the news is something that might help with this. the point is current mechanics are stale and not sutible for the way the game is right now, lets mix things up see how it goes and we can always go back. The game never gets better if they dont try new mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetiepie View Post

    5. Well you could try learn waving a target who might war instead of picking one 10-15% smaller, believe me you'll never have a problem getting a war then.
    2 ages ago and this age i have learned kds >110% my nw, often they still shy away. its not that i want free reign to feed, its that the kds i hit would be better served with these new mechanics


    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetiepie View Post
    I feel the real issues you raise are that if your kingdom is bigger you should be able to do exactly what you want to who you want without any downsides. The question is more why should you be able to hit anyone smaller with complete impunity? And how long do you think there will be players wanting to play in smaller kingdoms if you get what you want? Killing the game from the bottom is a fast way to an even deader server.

    True shepherds tend the flock not beat them to death and then wonder why there is no more lamb for fine dining...
    bad players in bad kds often think certain mechanics would help or hurt them and are dead wrong. like for example removing learns. im sure alot of people thought that would behelpfull. i had 1/5 of my kd ready to quit if learns didnt come back because there was simply nothing to do. if you look at hours played across the game and not just my kds the age w/out learns had some of the lowest # of wars per kd on record becasue there was no draw to do anything. similarlly i dont even honestly care if i get bottomfeed or get to feed on anyone. What i want is the game to faciliate helping people/kds who are to stupid to do whats in their own interest. i dont want the game to be setup where a kd is encouraged to wave me for 3-4-5 days straight for learns with my only remedy to be hitting into their next war because its a losing battle to try to teach all the **** kds what thye'll actually find most fun. Simiarlly i would prefer if the game is setup such that if someone sits and tries to grief me for days with constant learns/ops whatever theres some remedy i have like crushing the kd in a war and geting a cf.

    In general people are acting like these mechanics will allow all the good kds to take advantage, it wont. Right now if i hit u to 50 meter points u do what ms and aw me for a week? ooh thats productive. either your so much an annoyance that i just start razekilling you or you arent doing enough to matter and i ignore. same thing is litteraly going to happen only razekilling=beat u in war, and not doing enough to matter=autocf. thats heathly for the fun of both kds. Similarly if u hit me to 50 points and i cant really fight back, the new mechanics allow me to force a cf fast to MAKE you move on. sure u gained a wave off me....and i didnt ms u some. But its a 3 days cf, if im pissed enough about it i'll just wait till u hit your next war and raze into it. oh look instead of spending a week peppering u with a few usless ops or provoking u into crushing my kd i actually get a REAL revenge that sends a msg. Litterally these changes wont change anything for my kd other than we cant slow wave around lunchtime usa->euro dinner as a 3 hour window wont allow for my aussies/asians to wake up and join in on the wave.

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