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Thread: Running a Kingdom without addons

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    He isnt saying going old school for the sake of old school, he is saying playing old school to force good play.

    What the freak use is a intel program when the attackers dont get SoT, or when the pally dont buff your kingdom, or not getting a SoM before hitting and bouncing (that or using the Munk's auto fill which bounces almost every 10ish hits).
    Also what use is lurking in the chat rooms? It does nothing. You have wave times that your attackers should be matching. T/M they have the orders to work on, and there is also the ingame chat.

    TBH, using the 3rd party stuff is a crutch if you haven't learned the game properly.
    I guess we disagree on his meaning in the initial post. I don't disagree knowing the game is important, and yea you might learn more without the tools. But overall the tools are an enormous help, nearly insurmountable if you wish to play at a high level.

  2. #17
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    Yea I agree, it is a "useful" tool which cuts out a lot of useless stealth wastage and guess work.

    Sadly it kinda makes Tacts kinda weaker due to the usage of those tools...... (I actually prefer Rogue over tacts due to this)
    A outerworld vagabond Elf traveling this world.
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    Elven Roles sense Age 63: Sage, Mystic, Rogue, Tactician, Cleric, Merchant, Heretic, War Hero, Warrior, Paladin, Undead,

  3. #18
    Postaholic DonJuan's Avatar
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    In all honesty...there aren't many ways to efficiently play Utopia these days. In fact, it is kinda weird that in a browser/text-based game...its the social norms that is the main driving force in how to physically play this game.

    Allow me to explain with rough estimates:

    - 90% of Utopia uses Munkbot + Integration (given popularity among community)...say 50% mobile and 40% PC
    - 8% of Utopia uses Intel Alternatives (UPimp, Upoopu, StingerNET, Utopia App, etc)
    - 2% of Utopia uses nothing at all

    That being said...depending on which tools you consider will take to you a "high level" is really subjective to some players and shouldn't be taken for granted given that besides very few "analysis" commands/features, an API and heavy use of lowercase abbreviations...alternatives to munk are comparable if players are willing,

    Usually the hardest part is simply finding those willing players.
    Last edited by DonJuan; 22-11-2018 at 12:50.
    "Respect the one who defends his land with bravery;
    Honor the price he pays to fufill his duty."

    -DonJuan, The Legendary KaMiKaZe King

    The Tactical Technical Institute | WhatsApp +16264286874 | SC2/D3 BattleNet: DonJuan5420 | PSN: DonJuan5420

    Age 54: #1 Land KD (HaLL of Heroes)
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  4. #19
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    My point is, if the bot, the chat and the available depth of mechanical research is beneficial vs the majority it's because the majority use it less effectively. Bravo! You are the bigger fish.

    This same principle is why so many kingdoms chain or wish they could chain like every good kingdom. This, like technical crutch dependence, lulls kingdoms to sleep. They seem bent on becoming better at chaining through activity, bot crap, immaculate province builds and com links...instead of thinking of better strategy.

    Originally I chose not to hit unprovoked as a moral choice, but soon I learned that letting my competitors hit first I've evolved strategically and tactically. In order to exact correction I must be able to overcome opponents in a superior position virtually every time I'm hit.

    You see, most of you know if you belong to a mighty kingdom, the "bigger fish" rule is in effect. But it's not really a rule, it's an expectation.
    You expect the target of your random to hit a smaller random to recoup their losses. Because of this logistical tradition, most players languish in their strategic progress. All the while using bots and 3rd party chat because that's what good kingdoms do. It's a cargo cult.

    I on the other hand come from a tradition of challenge. I purposefully hurt my position to make my opposition stronger. I want to see them at their best, poised for battle and ready to crush me. I'm hitting them back, and the insanity in that action can only be evaluated in the results.

    The inability to embrace challenge because you embrace technology isn't a horrible leap. I'm not trying to talk kingdoms out of bot use or com systems. What I want them to understand is the capitulation to abide these tools and obey their leaders might render them to be average in any other scenario.

    Try this: attempt to hit an enemy without intel. From what you know about activity, race, defensive tendencies and nw, reverse engineer a target and attack. The closer to percentage over target defense the better. This isn't as difficult in top kingdoms because pump is obvious, so attempt this first where diplomacy isn't meta. Try war tier and then grab intel to see if your calculations were relatively accurate.

    So how do we use kingdom chat/msg effectively? The first question is, how many have played in bands or organized sports? We can abbreviate complex actions by calling plays or keys to ad-lib. By setting a foundation of assignment tactics we can detail exceptions to the rule rather than ad nauseam dictation.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 23-11-2018 at 04:18.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  5. #20
    Postaholic DonJuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    My point is, if the bot, the chat and the available depth of mechanical research is beneficial vs the majority it's because the majority use it less effectively. Bravo! You are the bigger fish.

    This same principle is why so many kingdoms chain or wish they could chain like every good kingdom. This, like technical crutch dependence, lulls kingdoms to sleep. They seem bent on becoming better at chaining through activity, bot crap, immaculate province builds and com links...instead of thinking of better strategy.

    Originally I chose not to hit unprovoked as a moral choice, but soon I learned that letting my competitors hit first I've evolved strategically and tactically. In order to exact correction I must be able to overcome opponents in a superior position virtually every time I'm hit.

    You see, most of you know if you belong to a mighty kingdom, the "bigger fish" rule is in effect. But it's not really a rule, it's an expectation.
    You expect the target of your random to hit a smaller random to recoup their losses. Because of this logistical tradition, most players languish in their strategic progress. All the while using bots and 3rd party chat because that's what good kingdoms do. It's a cargo cult.

    I on the other hand come from a tradition of challenge. I purposefully hurt my position to make my opposition stronger. I want to see them at their best, poised for battle and ready to crush me. I'm hitting them back, and the insanity in that action can only be evaluated in the results.

    The inability to embrace challenge because you embrace technology isn't a horrible leap. I'm not trying to talk kingdoms out of bot use or com systems. What I want them to understand is the capitulation to abide these tools and obey their leaders might render them to be average in any other scenario.

    Try this: attempt to hit an enemy without intel. From what you know about activity, race, defensive tendencies and nw, reverse engineer a target and attack. The closer to percentage over target defense the better. This isn't as difficult in top kingdoms because pump is obvious, so attempt this first where diplomacy isn't meta. Try war tier and then grab intel to see if your calculations were relatively accurate.

    So how do we use kingdom chat/msg effectively? The first question is, how many have played in bands or organized sports? We can abbreviate complex actions by calling plays or keys to ad-lib. By setting a foundation of assignment tactics we can detail exceptions to the rule rather than ad nauseam dictation.
    very good points
    "Respect the one who defends his land with bravery;
    Honor the price he pays to fufill his duty."

    -DonJuan, The Legendary KaMiKaZe King

    The Tactical Technical Institute | WhatsApp +16264286874 | SC2/D3 BattleNet: DonJuan5420 | PSN: DonJuan5420

    Age 54: #1 Land KD (HaLL of Heroes)
    Age 54: #1 NW KD (HaLL of Heroes)


  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    My point is, if the bot, the chat and the available depth of mechanical research is beneficial vs the majority it's because the majority use it less effectively. Bravo! You are the bigger fish.

    This same principle is why so many kingdoms chain or wish they could chain like every good kingdom. This, like technical crutch dependence, lulls kingdoms to sleep. They seem bent on becoming better at chaining through activity, bot crap, immaculate province builds and com links...instead of thinking of better strategy.

    Originally I chose not to hit unprovoked as a moral choice, but soon I learned that letting my competitors hit first I've evolved strategically and tactically. In order to exact correction I must be able to overcome opponents in a superior position virtually every time I'm hit.

    You see, most of you know if you belong to a mighty kingdom, the "bigger fish" rule is in effect. But it's not really a rule, it's an expectation.
    You expect the target of your random to hit a smaller random to recoup their losses. Because of this logistical tradition, most players languish in their strategic progress. All the while using bots and 3rd party chat because that's what good kingdoms do. It's a cargo cult.

    I on the other hand come from a tradition of challenge. I purposefully hurt my position to make my opposition stronger. I want to see them at their best, poised for battle and ready to crush me. I'm hitting them back, and the insanity in that action can only be evaluated in the results.

    The inability to embrace challenge because you embrace technology isn't a horrible leap. I'm not trying to talk kingdoms out of bot use or com systems. What I want them to understand is the capitulation to abide these tools and obey their leaders might render them to be average in any other scenario.

    Try this: attempt to hit an enemy without intel. From what you know about activity, race, defensive tendencies and nw, reverse engineer a target and attack. The closer to percentage over target defense the better. This isn't as difficult in top kingdoms because pump is obvious, so attempt this first where diplomacy isn't meta. Try war tier and then grab intel to see if your calculations were relatively accurate.

    So how do we use kingdom chat/msg effectively? The first question is, how many have played in bands or organized sports? We can abbreviate complex actions by calling plays or keys to ad-lib. By setting a foundation of assignment tactics we can detail exceptions to the rule rather than ad nauseam dictation.
    This whole post is nearly irrelevant to this discussion. The exception being the last sentence where you seem to be trying to imply that the built in chat is good because we can come up with abreviations. But why shouldn't we just use a more functional chat app? We could still use the abbreviations if it was necessary and have a more user friendly platform.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke3 View Post
    This whole post is nearly irrelevant to this discussion. The exception being the last sentence where you seem to be trying to imply that the built in chat is good because we can come up with abreviations. But why shouldn't we just use a more functional chat app? We could still use the abbreviations if it was necessary and have a more user friendly platform.
    Yea abbreviations shouldn't matter.

    But a "Universal" User friendly chat platform = chatroom + history + easy to access.... the ingame is close enough to the best "universal" one once you open it inside another window (easier access to history).

    Anything more than that is specialized to the point where user "preferences" appear. Yahoo, Skype, discord, mIRC or any other 3rd party chat room.... they all are specialized and not everyone finds it user friendly.
    A outerworld vagabond Elf traveling this world.
    From the world of Thardferr, herald of the Eldar Elven Kingdoms
    Elven Roles sense Age 63: Sage, Mystic, Rogue, Tactician, Cleric, Merchant, Heretic, War Hero, Warrior, Paladin, Undead,

  8. #23
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    Luke3 i believe Strato gets my point/s ... i am speaking/typing about running a Kingdom without all of the tdchnological extras that abound ... things that i compare to auto-aim on a fps - it takes the fun and challenge out of the game, to a degree...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonJuan View Post
    very good points
    Thank you.

    As far as the irrelevance of my evaluations, I'm not just talking about ghettos. I've occupied some pretty fine kingdoms and the tendencies are similar with the exception that organized kingdoms are doing what "ghettos" think they want to do.

    By protecting yourself, age after age through diplomacy meta, the tendencies will be guided by logistics. Did you know that virtually every kingdom I've occupied follows the chain tactic? The ones that don't usually want to.

    The deal is I've tested what I do in microcosm even in these highly organized kingdoms.

    How does this relate to bots? It's that I don't use bots for much else than submitting intel for kingdom mates.
    The bot can show you numbers but it takes your insight to see the shape of war. In other words, I can use the bot but I choose not to use. Why? Because it is challenge aspect that I have overcome. Necessarily, most all of the opposition I face has bot/chat access and I defeat them. I don't need the bot, but most of all understand how using the bot can impose a crutch on play style that makes about everyone in this game predictable. The exceptions are those above the game: top players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

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