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Thread: Age 80 Proposed Changes - Suggestions and Feedback

  1. #16
    Post Demon Avenger's Avatar
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    Also things that need to happen:

    Thievery & Magic
    -Steal War Horses Unfriendly Op or 50% effect outside Relations.
    -Reduce thieves required for 100% accurate intra-kd intel during war to 10%.
    -Amnesia removes a % of learned books. A part of them is permanently lost. The rest are immediately available for allocation.
    -Land Lust minimum gain increased to 0.3%. Land Lust gain cap decreased to 1%. Affected by Spell Damage, Barrier, Shielding and Cunning.

    Science
    -Artisan science also reduces cost of razing buildings (this category is currently being only for the first few breakpoints; would help make it a bit more appealing).
    -Slightly reduce Tactics and Strategy eff modifier (since the OME/DME calculation is a bit different now).
    -Learn steals books in War, at -50% gains.
    -Remove Universities, Guard Stations protect science.

    Relations
    -Raise Trad/Massacre/Learn meter cost to 3p, Ambush to 1.5p. Bounce 0.3p to 1.5p Slightly up Op meter cost. Unfriendly/Hostile limits to 10/25p. Meter decay 12% or 3p minimum. (to be discussed: possibility of declare button control up to 50p?)
    -Forced ceasefire doesn't cancel dragons.
    -Reduce strength of dragons sent from EoWCF stance
    -War Score does not update on declare.
    -Out of range wars don't update War Score (but wars/wins incremented).
    -War win land bonus distribution based on kingdom median (smaller provs get up to 25% than average, big provs up to 25% less).
    -To be discussed: Meter constantly decays each tick as opposed to month end.

    Other QoL changes
    -Display 2nd decimal for Scientist Generation, 3rd decimal for Science Effects.
    -Add [Max] button for science allocation.
    -Target kingdom fields, Select target and Spell/Op drop down menus visible under 10% Stealh/Mana.
    -Current training time displayed on military page.
    -Expected wage cost next tick displayed under wage%.
    -Current ritual efficiency shown on Cast Ritual page for everyone.
    -Dragons can be fully funded, but only monarch and stewards can send them.
    -Allow stewards to change KD name and banner, or at least give the monarch the ability to authorise them to do so
    Last edited by Avenger; 02-02-2019 at 04:13.
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  2. #17
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Max button for Sci would be a huge QoL

  3. #18
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    Elf the only option to cast spells on kd-mates? Interesting.

  4. #19
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    - RM wasn't mentioned anywhere.

    Races:
    - avian remove the ambush protection. With additional def and fast attack avian is already good anti attacker.
    - dwarf overnerfed. Give them back free construction that was huge bonus.
    - elf elite should go to 8/3. As it stays it's the second out of 3 playable attackers.
    - faery gets every spell including rm and cs. That will make it just truly UB - you can't op, spell or attack it. Give them way less spells(without GP/RM/CS).
    - halfer completely unplayable. Can't do anything at all. Give 25% pop bonus and remove that bonus from orc and und.
    - human kinda like the halfer/wh this age but avian is actually better. With the -mana penalty cant go even tm(unlike avian).
    - orc best attacker and over buffed imo. Penalties aren't actually penalties if all you do is intel gathering/MA removing.
    - undead simply unplayable. 0 off 0 def. It's worse than halfer. The elite training penalty should be removed and the elite nerfed to 9/1. Nice idea above to convert losses into off specs giving them small ambush protection.

    Personalities:
    - remove rogue's guilds bonus because rogue doesn't need it at all.
    - considering not many will run undead cleric is weak. Same goes for WH.

    Overall - persos are kinda ok. Much alike this age. Not many changes there. Races are horrendous.
    Last edited by Bo To; 01-02-2019 at 17:01.

  5. #20
    Post Fiend
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    Elves that are less sneaky than Dwarves and Humans...... it had to turn into that eh?
    A outerworld vagabond Elf traveling this world.
    From the world of Thardferr, herald of the Eldar Elven Kingdoms
    Elven Roles sense Age 63: Sage, Mystic, Rogue, Tactician, Cleric, Merchant, Heretic, War Hero, Warrior, Paladin, Undead,

  6. #21
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    For the intel system will there be an option to add a nickname for provinces? On munk all the provinces had a username which was related to their name in chat. This kept the .list functions short and made it clear who was who.

    If I did .home it would show me as pestilence rather than "Province Name" so nobody had to go "who is Province Name, they need to attack."



    The actual race changes seem like lazy garbage again. Most of the races are unplayable in the proposed state. It's annoying to see so many negatives on every race also.
    Last edited by Pestilence; 01-02-2019 at 17:08.

  7. #22
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    Dwarf WPA nerf is perfect.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    - RM wasn't mentioned anywhere.
    it wasn't "removed from the game" like fog was when it got removed. as feary has ALL SPELLS it should have RM

  9. #24
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    I think the overall direction of changes are a good place to start, but need quite a bit of work. My suggestions:


    Races

    Avian

    Bonuses
    -20% Attack travel time
    -50% Ambush Land Losses
    Mercenaries and Prisoners fight with 10 strength

    Penalties
    Cannot Use War Horses/Stables
    -15% Birth Rate

    Spell book: Fanaticism, Aggression
    Elite: Offense: 7 Defense: 3 Networth: 8.0 Cost: 825
    Soldiers: Offense: 2 Defense: 2

    Dwarf

    Bonuses
    +20% Building Efficiency
    +10% Income

    Penalties
    +40% Food consumption
    -25% WPA

    Spell book: Clear Sight, Reflect Magic
    Elite: Offense: 7 Defense: 7 Networth: 10 Cost: 1025
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Elf

    Bonuses
    +35% WPA
    -35% Rune Costs
    Can Cast Self Spells on Others
    -1 Mana Cost to Cast Self Spells on Others

    Penalties
    Cannot use Dungeons or Mercenaries
    -25% TPA


    Spell book: Inspire Army, Town Watch, Quick Feet, Scientific Insights
    Elite: Offense: 8 Defense: 4 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 950
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Faery

    Bonuses
    Access to All Racial Spells
    +20% WPA and TPA
    +20% Sabotage Operation Damage and Instant Spell Damage

    Penalties
    -10% Population
    +15% Military Casualties

    Spell book: All Racial spells including Tree of Gold
    Elite: Offense: 3 Defense: 8 Networth: 11.0 Cost: 1100
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Halfling

    Bonuses
    +50% Thievery Effectiveness (TPA)
    -50% Thief Losses
    +1 Offense Specialist Strength

    Penalties
    Cannot use hospitals

    Spell book: Inspire Army, Greater Protection, Quick Feet, Gluttony
    Elite: Offense: 4 Defense: 7 Networth: 9 Cost: 950
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Human

    Bonuses
    +15% Science Effectiveness
    +1 Defensive Specialist Strength
    +20% Credits (Building & Military from Attacks)

    Penalties
    +15% Construction and Raze Costs
    +20% Wages

    Spell book: Revelation, Greater Protection, Mystic Aura
    Elite: Offense: 7 Defense: 4 Networth: 9.0 Cost: 975
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Orc

    Bonuses
    +10% Maximum Population
    -35% Draft Costs

    Penalties
    20% of Spells Fail
    20% of Thievery Operations Fail

    Spell book: Bloodlust
    Elite: Offense: 8 Defense: 2 Networth: 9 Cost: 1000
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

    Undead

    Bonuses
    -50% Military casualties
    -50% Elite Desertions due to overpopulation
    Some specialists convert to elites on Traditional Marches
    No food needed
    Spreads and is immune to the Plague

    Penalties
    -20% Science Effectiveness
    Cannot Train Elites

    Spell book: Animate Dead
    Elite: Offense: 11 Defense: 3 Networth: 11 Cost: n/a
    Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


    Personalities

    The Heretic

    Guilds and Thieves Dens are 50% more effective
    +30% Offensive WPA and Offensive TPA
    +35% Cunning Science Effectiveness
    Access to thievery operation: Sabotage Wizards*
    Access to Blizzard, Fool's Gold, Nightmare, Pitfalls, and Expose Thieves*
    Starting Thieves +400
    Starting Wizards +400

    The Mystic

    All Guilds are 100% more effective
    +75% Sorcery Science Effectiveness
    +1 Mana per tick
    Access to Meteor Showers, Chastity, Barrier of Integriy, Pitfalls, and Paradise
    Starts with +800 Wizards

    The Paladin

    Honor Bonuses +100%
    +5% Military Efficiency
    Troops attack dragon with +50% increased power
    +25% Valor Science Effectiveness
    Starting Soldiers +800
    Starting Specialist Credits +800
    Access to Wrathful Smite, Illuminate Shadows, and Reflect Magic


    The Rogue

    +1 Stealth recovery per tick
    Thieves Dens are 100% more effective
    -50% Thief Costs
    +50% Crime Science Effectiveness
    Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
    Access to Invisibility and Paradise
    Staring Thieves+800


    The Tactician

    +10% Battle Gains
    -35% Military Train Time
    Accurate Espionage
    +20% Tactics** Science Effectiveness
    Access to War Spoils
    Starting Soldiers +800
    Starting Specialist Credits +800

    The Cleric

    Immune to The Plague and Dragons
    -40% Military Casualties
    +10% Strategy Science Effectiveness
    Access to Greater Protection and Animate Dead
    Starting Soldiers +800
    Starting Specialist Credits +800

    The War Hero

    +1 General
    +1 Offense Specialist strength
    Some specialists convert to elites on Traditional Marches
    Full Conquest Access
    +25% Heroism Science Effectiveness
    Starting Elites +800
    Access to Quick Feet

    The Warrior

    +10% Offensive Military Efficiency
    +10% Enemy casualties on attacks
    +10% Siege** Science Effectiveness
    Access to Fanaticism
    Starting Soldiers +800
    Staring Specialist Credits +800


    NOTES
    * Sabotage Wizards and Expose Thieves are Heretic only.
    ** Siege and Tactics science should swap names.
    Last edited by Fate1316; 01-02-2019 at 20:10.

  10. #25
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    Wow some big changes. Ok, so there's some cool stuff going on here but I see some major problems. The 5M nw elephant in the room is Faery. It's completely broken. Spells are really f'in good. MS, chastity, NM, FG, BL, fanat, RM, CS, Invis, MF all on one prov? With tpa and wpa bonuses? It can do anything. It's a high-tier attacker, a top-tier rogue and mystic, and it doesn't even need to take mystic as a personality to get that. A 25 faery/X KD would be super strong and that's kinda crazy. It needs to be severely nerfed. Or just removed. Moving on to the rest of the changes...

    Avian: Seems...meh? Can take and hold land pretty fast but will burn out faster than single parent working 3 minimum wage jobs, and with no BR or credits it will be a shell super fast. The overall changes are a military nerf for the most part, so I don't actually see them being able to do enough damage to mitigate the fact that they are so easily dealt with both by chaining and shelling. I can't see them being actually successful in a war. I'm not sure what the right direction is for this, but maybe just giving them BR back?
    Dwarf: Seems fine. Offensively they're a bit weak but they will be amazing tanky attackers. I think I'd like to see the elite adjusted to 7/5 since right now their offense is quite low and they'll have to send a lot of those elites to make anything happen. But they seem fine to me as an option for a core that wants to be tankier.
    Elf: Seems strong. The military strength is really good. They can tank up behind quite sturdy elites and hit out with a lot of power. Casting spells on mates is a really good ability too. I'm not sure they need to be as strong as they are actually if they are gonna be the new paladin. The penalty to exploration seems really random too. Anyway I'd probably knock their elite down to 7/4 and they'll still be a solid, useful pick.
    Halfling: pretty dumpster fire. Has big identity crises of having a trash military and no hospitals but getting a big bonus to prisoners and mercs, and also having big thievery bonuses but not enough military to be safe. I can't really imagine this seeing any play. Really needs a major rework or needs the pop bonus and spec penalties from UD. That would make it pretty strong and interesting.
    Human: Human is nice and quite versatile. The defensive elite and science bonuses make it a solid rogue pickup (assuming faery isn't 10x better than every other race). It has a pretty good military for attacking as well. Heck it's even not a bad mystic (except for faery) compared to other races, despite its significant mana penalty. I like where it is.
    Orc: Orc is once again probably the strongest attacker (except maybe faery...come on guys...). Bonuses seem fine, military seems fine, pretty close to in line with what it is this age (a bit stronger because of no sci penalty), but I'm not really a fan of the insta-fail stuff. It's like, ok, but I'd prefer something like -25% arcane arts sciences so it actually feels weak to T/M stuff since it's so strong military-wise.
    UD: really interesting, cool direction you've taken with it. I have a hard time evaluating its true strength, but the one thing I don't like about it is that it seems to have a very severe power curve over the age. OOP it will be super weak because it won't actually make great use of its pop bonus, and late age it will get overwhelmed due to the severe sci penalty. I'm not a fan of designs that limit the strength of something to a narrow section of the age (probably wars 2-3). I think this is a good attempt at making something with massive bonuses but massive penalties as well, though, so I'd be interested in seeing some ideas of how to adjust it so it's a bit more of a linear power curve.

    For the personalities, I think they're honestly all just fine (I like the adjustment to WH to have 5% ME in war instead of +1 ospecs) except Paladin. Paladin is locked in deadly combat with Halfling for most deep, dank, dumpster of the age. Yes, the spellbook is great! Having some dragon slaying power is great. But I cannot see this getting any play outside of pairing with elf for spells on mates. It's so incredibly weak otherwise. If you're gonna not have it have spells on mates itself, it needs to actually be playable on something other than elf. I'm not really sure what exactly to give it. It's identity is basically having a good spellbook. I quite liked my enchanter rework that I proposed, so maybe give it some guild effectiveness, magic sci, and an offensive spell or two like blizzard or chastity or PF (heretic I still contend should be more of an instant spellcaster not a duration spellcaster, so moving blizzard away from it makes sense).

    Long story short, there's some good stuff here, but some huge issues that need addressing. I still like my proposed changes and hex's proposed changes a lot better than these :/.

  11. #26
    Enthusiast 0papa's Avatar
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    Will Ops and Spells still report to UBot so we can see what lazy TMs do?

    I see no reduced Thf cost for Half or Rog? Did I miss it?
    Last edited by 0papa; 01-02-2019 at 20:27.
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  12. #27
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    well somewhat agreeing with mechanical changes.

    The racial changes however looks like something drawn from a hat really and only orc and elf seems decent for attacking role with Paladin beeing irellevant once more unless put on an elf, and avian getting it even worse than this age. Increased speed already result in increased loses and with tactician already beeing almost as fast + the better pick since you can get a stronger race there really is no role for avian even on half ambush immunity. undead and halfing also seems silly there is no working arround how unballanced they are unless you use them in a setup where you are never going to war, then full soldier armies for halfing and powerfull conversion for undead might come into play.
    Furthermore I think Carthage should be destroyed and Dryads brought back to the game

  13. #28
    Enthusiast Zombies are people too's Avatar
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    This has been great for memes! Not much else tho!

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  14. #29
    Post Fiend Marc5000's Avatar
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    Please make BE change more quickly. Even if it's just in EoW CF. I ended war 2 days ago and I'm still around 10% short of what my mod BE should be with 20k more peasants than what's needed for max BE.

    Maybe make it 2-3 times faster in general and auto 100% raw when war ends.
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  15. #30
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    Did i misread something,i thought there was talk of a new Race or Personality?? Undead nor Cleric is new.

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