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Thread: n00b questions - plz answer 4 fun & profit

  1. #16
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    Red face Undead War Heroes FTW

    Quote Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:. View Post
    Anudai i shall get back to you. My afternoon is a bit muddled...
    Thank you! ...And no worries - muddle through whatever you need to first!
    After all, this is only a virtual life or death situation... ;-D

    Quote Originally Posted by umajon911 View Post
    For conversion rate, IDK...itll always be unknown. But I am UD/WH. Attacked a FA/viscount 100%NW no GBP and this was the result.
    ...
    We lost 249 Skeletons, 269 Ghouls and 313 horses in this battle.
    1,005 of your specialists have been promoted to elites. We killed about 917 enemy troops.
    ...
    Sent 4ospa.
    GBP = Gang-Bang Protection... correcto-mundo?

    ...And wow... Seems like a good conversion rate - when you're gaining more elites than you are losing per attack... Of course, for Undead they're so expensive it's likely the only way to be "training" them en masse... :-P

    ...And also... I ended up picking Undead War Hero too! (^_^) It just seemed like Dragon Immunity + Plague Immunity + Food Immunity + 15% Population + Extra Elite Conversion + Super-Strong Elites = Awesome (i.e. enough to make-up for the lack of good spells, poor SE {science effectiveness}, and reduced Specialist power)! ...I almost picked Faery Mystic - but I figured I wanted to leave my comfort zone and be a dedicated attacker this time around - as the massive amounts of Undead this age made me really feel like Plague Immunity would be very handy... and seeing as I was joining fresh (knowing not what KD I would be assigned) I figured Dragon Immunity would be very handy as well...

    But as luck would have it, it seems like my new KD is not going to be a warring KD - so I'll just have to make due with what I've got. ;-|

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anudai View Post
    I still don't get it... (-_-)

    I get the 5 raw TPA - I get the Crime Science adding effective TPA, I get the Thieves Den increase adding effective TPA...
    ...But WHY does the Undead's 40% Reduced Military Casualties (RMC) stay an effective 40% - while the Cleric's 35% drops down to an effective 21% ???

    I remember you also saying that the Cleric's 35% seemed to apply fully in one case, though it required 48.75% Hospitals @ 100% BE to cap out the 75% RMC...and I understood that an additional 8.75% was required because of the reduced stacking mechanics applied to the building bonuses... But I thought that was only for the bonuses applying to buildings? Are Racial or Personality bonuses affected by the reduced stacking mechanic? Is Science, Ritual, and other increases affected by it (e.g. Turning something like a 10% Science Effectiveness into only an 8% Science Effectiveness effect?)

    ...I'm just looking to find out when this reduced stacking mechanics applies and when it does not... Because it does not seem universal to me ATPIT :-|
    Consider how the formula would look. They do not stack as additive, rather multipilicitive (no idea if i spelled those right)

    Actual Losses = Normal Losses * (racial reduction) * (personality reduction) -> Act = Norm *(1 - 0.4) * (1-0.35) = 0.39 *N (or the equivalent 61% reduction).

  3. #18
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    I need a strategy moderator or a supernerd to please step in ... i am doing the numbers and finishing with -61% and -62% either way i work the numbers ... this result being the total reduced losses for an Undead cleric ... -40% = 60% of the original amount ... -35% = 38% of the original amount meaning the Undead Cleric had -62% losses ....***.*...:.*>>>>...*..:.***.*..>.<... -35% = 65% of the original amount ... -40% = 39% of the original amount meaning that the Undead Cleric had -61% losses... it can not be both answers ... or does it just warp together to -75% losses? Persain?
    Last edited by .:. The Moon .:.; 12-03-2019 at 12:04. Reason: Giant Slayer with 2 hand weapons

  4. #19
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    I guess it warps ... ah well im Dwarf Rogue ... was Faery Mystic last Age and Orc Rogue and Faery Mystic and Halfling Rogue the Age before that (SWEA killed me twice...) i have played Cleric a few times in the past but never as Undead. I am not 100% sure but id figure itd just warp together to -75% losses ... i was muddled earlier...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by .:. The Moon .:. View Post
    I guess it warps ... ah well im Dwarf Rogue ... was Faery Mystic last Age and Orc Rogue and Faery Mystic and Halfling Rogue the Age before that (SWEA killed me twice...) i have played Cleric a few times in the past but never as Undead. I am not 100% sure but id figure itd just warp together to -75% losses ... i was muddled earlier...
    No... you were right earlier... see my response above I gave the formula. They are multiplicative. 61% reduction was correct, I don't know how you got 62, but I suspect a rounding error of some sort. If I follow your logic I get 61% in both cases.

  6. #21
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    Indeed i have supernerd clarification ... there is no warping :-) sea lions rooting near the surface of the sea ... mermaids and earthquakes ... dawn and a drunken homeless man ... lights in the sky as things burn ... in a few billion seconds we will all be dead...

  7. #22
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    Red face Supernerds FTW

    Quote Originally Posted by luke3 View Post
    Consider how the formula would look. They do not stack as additive, rather multipilicitive (no idea if i spelled those right)

    Actual Losses = Normal Losses * (racial reduction) * (personality reduction) -> Act = Norm *(1 - 0.4) * (1-0.35) = 0.39 *N (or the equivalent 61% reduction).
    Awesome - Thank you. (^_^)

    I know for you "supernerds" (as The Moon labelled ye) this is probably common sense and obvious to you... but for intuitive players such as myself? We appreciate you sharing yourself with the rest of us. (^_-)

    I personally saw multiple ways to calculate these bonuses and no easy way for me to find out HOW they were calculated... Perhaps it's in the wiki?? Or is it hidden somewhat on purpose so that there is an air of mystery and to keep people guessing and unsure??

    Regardless of that, this formula is EXACTLY what I was looking for!!
    Checking my math, this is what I got from the above:

    (1000) "Normal Deaths" * (1 - 0.40) "Racial Bonus" * (1 - 0.35) "Personality Bonus" = ???
    (1000) * (0.60) * (0.65) = ???
    (600) * (0.65) = ???
    (390) = ???

    390 / 1000 = 0.39
    1 - 0.39 = 0.61

    THEREFORE - if this is in fact how bonuses are calculated - An Undead Cleric would have 61% fewer casualties. (^o^)

    ...My next question is: Is this how ALL Bonuses are calculated??
    And if so - What's the order??

    Racial bonus > Personality Bonus > Building Bonus(?) > Science Bonus(?) > Wage Bonus(?) > Ritual Bonus(?) > Dragon "Bonus"(?)

    ...There are just SO MANY bonuses, and the ORDER in which they are calculated completely changes the outcome...
    Is there any easy access to this kind of information that I missed in the wiki??
    Or is this something that a new player just has to ask around about??

  8. #23
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    Question ...Also...

    ...I played back during the time when Utopia Angel was the goto formatter... And with that gone, I am confused AF. (>_<)

    What is Munkbot?
    What is IRCbot?
    What is Intel-Site?

    I tried to use the Tutorial in an attempt to educate me here, but I couldn't get it to give me the information I was looking for... (>_<)
    I also checked the main Utopia forum about the new developer tool, but I didn't really understand very much of it (TBH).

    ...Is anyone willing to be patient with me on this? Share enough to explain to me how to use these new built-in formatters correctly?

    Because!! The truth is... I've been made the Monarch of my new Kingdom - and me having this kind of game knowledge is going to be the difference between being able to educate newer players correctly and sharing information throughout the Kingdom... or blundering along and making us all an easy target due to lack of formatting skillz... (-_-)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anudai View Post
    ...I played back during the time when Utopia Angel was the goto formatter... And with that gone, I am confused AF. (>_<)

    What is Munkbot?
    What is IRCbot?
    What is Intel-Site?

    I tried to use the Tutorial in an attempt to educate me here, but I couldn't get it to give me the information I was looking for... (>_<)
    I also checked the main Utopia forum about the new developer tool, but I didn't really understand very much of it (TBH).

    ...Is anyone willing to be patient with me on this? Share enough to explain to me how to use these new built-in formatters correctly?

    Because!! The truth is... I've been made the Monarch of my new Kingdom - and me having this kind of game knowledge is going to be the difference between being able to educate newer players correctly and sharing information throughout the Kingdom... or blundering along and making us all an easy target due to lack of formatting skillz... (-_-)
    Utopia Angel was fantastic. I still use it in work for the clipboard manager.

    Munkbot/Utopiabot, IRCbot and the Intel-site page are three facets of the same thing; Munk*
    Munk is roughly equivalent to UtopiaPimp from yesteryear. It's an intel-sharing site. Munk is integrated into Utopia now, so intel (E.g If you check your Throne Room page or get an SoT on an enemy province) you gather is automatically uploaded into Munk, from where the entire kingdom can see it. Because the intel-sharing is automatic there's no need** for Angel anymore.
    With that in mind, Munkbot is a Discord***-based bot that allows you to interact with the intel site (Munk). Utopiabot is the same thing- A rebrand of Munkbot to reflect that Munk is now completely integrated with Utopia. Consider them equivalent.
    IRCbot is a very similar, but exists ingame/online. It's a means of communicating with kingdom members who do use Discord without having it yourself. It's also integrated into the intel-site/Munk.
    The intel-site is just that; An equivalent to UtopiaPimp and a repository for all intel (friendly and otherwise) that's been gathered. It can be sorted and organised and used as a planning tool.

    For all the naming, it's actually fairly straightforward. You don't need to worry overly much about the tool itself- It's very useful, but start by dipping your toes into it. Browse into the intel-site page and have a look around. You'll see, for example, straight away when everyone last logged in/updated their intel. I'd also suggest getting Discord and getting onto the MUGA server (Click the link on your Throne Room page). From there, you can get advice in real-time on components that seem confusing.
    Learn by using it as much as you can, and ask questions.

    *Confusingly enough; Munk is also the name of the guy who coded Munk(bot). He's now helps code Utopia itself.
    **When attacking, there's a calculator on the War Room page. The lack of a build strat calculator is a pity, but not a deal-breaker.
    ***Discord is a gaming/communication app that behaves a little like a cross between IRC and Slack.
    Ghetto Nightmare

    Age 80 - Somewhere A Clock Is Ticking | Age 79 - Stella Was A Diver And She Was Always Down | Age 78 - The Lightning Strike | Age 77 - So Like A Rose | Age 76 - Aversadze/Kemosabe | Age 75 - Not Your Kind Of People/Good Shot, Good Soldier | Age 74 - Godspell | Age 73 - Time Will Destroy Everything/Versions of Hate | Age 72 - Another New World | Age 71 - Cold Old Fire | Age 70 - Battlestations | Age 69 - Tilted | Age 68 - Spite & Malice | Age 67 - I, The Hand Grenade | Age 66 - The Mother We Share | Age 65 - Pretty Keen On Centrefolds | Age 64 - Wangernumb | Age 63 - Aversadze | Age 62 - Aversadze | Age 60 - Lynx | Age 59 - Astral | Age 58 - That's How You Get Ants | Age 57 - Aversadze

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anudai View Post
    Awesome - Thank you. (^_^)

    I know for you "supernerds" (as The Moon labelled ye) this is probably common sense and obvious to you... but for intuitive players such as myself? We appreciate you sharing yourself with the rest of us. (^_-)

    I personally saw multiple ways to calculate these bonuses and no easy way for me to find out HOW they were calculated... Perhaps it's in the wiki?? Or is it hidden somewhat on purpose so that there is an air of mystery and to keep people guessing and unsure??

    Regardless of that, this formula is EXACTLY what I was looking for!!
    Checking my math, this is what I got from the above:

    (1000) "Normal Deaths" * (1 - 0.40) "Racial Bonus" * (1 - 0.35) "Personality Bonus" = ???
    (1000) * (0.60) * (0.65) = ???
    (600) * (0.65) = ???
    (390) = ???

    390 / 1000 = 0.39
    1 - 0.39 = 0.61

    THEREFORE - if this is in fact how bonuses are calculated - An Undead Cleric would have 61% fewer casualties. (^o^)

    ...My next question is: Is this how ALL Bonuses are calculated??
    And if so - What's the order??

    Racial bonus > Personality Bonus > Building Bonus(?) > Science Bonus(?) > Wage Bonus(?) > Ritual Bonus(?) > Dragon "Bonus"(?)

    ...There are just SO MANY bonuses, and the ORDER in which they are calculated completely changes the outcome...
    Is there any easy access to this kind of information that I missed in the wiki??
    Or is this something that a new player just has to ask around about??
    A couple things. First this is NOT necessarily how all bonuses are calculated. Probably most are though. I can't think of examples right now, but generally if stuff is + or - some percentage then that means it is calculated in that way. But you get a feel for this stuff if you keep looking into it. Or keep checking the wiki, usually they are decently good about updating formulas and things.

    Second, the order does not matter. Since all of those terms are multiplied together, you would have gotten the same answer if you changed the order. However, it is important to recognize when you need to use (1- X) for a term instead of just multiplying by X, and follow order of operations correctly based on parenthesis. This is more so a math lesson than anything to do with utopia, but if you follow the order of operations appropriately there are probably very few calculations in utopia that the order you put the terms into the equation matters.

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