Age 82 Race/Pers suggestions

[AmrasArFeiniel]

Here's what I've been noodling on here and there throughout the age

BL reverts to its previous values (+10% OME, +10% enemy casualties, +15% own casualties)
-20% base duration of MS, chastity, blizzard to account for mystic bonus
Support spells: add fanat

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Races
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Bocan: A/T that can potentially sustain TPA while growing

+20% sabotage damage
+20% spec credits
can use credits for thieves

-10% income

4/7 elite 8.5nw 850gc
Spellbook: BL, Fanat

Elf: Standard mostly-defensive mage

+20% WPA
+30% rune production
+1 dspec

+20% wages

7/4 elite 8nw 800gc
Spellbook: MF, GP

Halfling: Standard mostly-defensive thief

+10% pop (or homes hold 20 pop)
+20% TPA
-50% thief cost
can train elites with credits
2/2 soldiers

+10% casualties

5/5 elite 7nw 400gc
Spellbook: MA, Invis, Aggression

Human: econ/sci all-around attacker

+15% income
+15% books produced

-15% WPA
+15% enemy spell damage

8/4 elite 9.5nw 1000gc
Spellbook: IA, QF, Rev, SI

Orc: Heavy, hard-hitting attacker

+10% Battle gains
+10% enemy casualties
Free draft

-15% TPA
+15% enemy sabotage damage

8/3 elite 9nw 900gc
Spellbook: Aggression, BL

Avian: Fast-attacking, fills in land quickly

-25% attack time
+30% birth rate
-25% military training time

cannot use stables or horses

8/2 elite 8nw 800gc
Spellbook: TW, fanat, GP

Dwarf: Sturdy, adaptable attacker

+25% BE
-50% construction cost
+50% building credits
Free building razing

+75% food needed

7/5 elite 9nw 900gc
Spellbook: MA, IA, CS, Gluttony

Faery: all-around solid defensive race relying on self-spells

+25% self spell duration
self spells cost 2 mana

-5% pop

4/8 elite 10nw 1100gc
Spellbook: MA, AD, QF, ToG, BL, MF, Invis, Rev, RM, CS

Undead: plague-spreading heavy attacker

-25% casualties
no food needed
spreads and is immune to plague

-10% sci effect

9/3 elite 9.5nw 1000gc
Spellbook: AD, Vermin

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Personalities
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Mystic: supermage, damage over time

+100% guild land effect
+50% channeling science
+1 mana/tick
+25% combat spell duration

Spellbook: MS, Chastity, Blizzard, Paradise
Starts with: 800 wiz

Assassin/Rogue: superthief, assassinate stuff

+100% TD land effect
+50% crime science
+1 stealth/tick
+20% NS damage
Access to GA, AW, Prop

Spellbook: Paradise
Starts with: 800 thieves

Bandit: A/T, steal your stuff including horses, use stuff to attack better, attacks turn into more thieves, repeat

+50% TD land effect
+25% gains on plunders, robs, and kidnaps
-50% merc cost
Can send 1 merc/prisoner per 4 loyal troops
Converts some mercs/prisoners to thieves on successful trads and plunders
Access to GA, SWH

Spellbook: Gluttony, Vermin
Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 thieves

Heretic: T/M focused on instant damage

+50% guild land effect
+50% TD land effect
wiz don't die on failed spells
+35% channeling, crime, and cunning sci

Spellbook: ET, NM, FG, Amnesia, Paradise
Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

Cleric/Paladin: A/M sturdy support attacker

+50% guild land effect
-25% casualties
Immune to plague
can cast support spells on mates
+20% channeling, shielding, and invocation sci

Spellbook: Wrathful Smite, IS, PF, Magic Ward, BoI
Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 wiz

Tactician: speed/gains

-15% attack time
+50% siege sci
Accurate intel

Spellbook: War Spoils
Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

Engineer/Artisan: econ/sci sage-lite

Immune to income penalties
+15% econ sciences
+15% land effect all buildings

Spellbook: ToG, Ghost Workers
Starts with: +1 scientist, 400 solds and creds

Berserker/Warrior: T/M smasher

+15% OME
+15% gains on massacres
-25% casualties on conquest attacks
improved conquest range

Spellbook:
Starts with: 800 solds and creds

War Hero: Fast-reloading attacker

+100% honor bonuses
+1 ospec
Convert specs to elites
+35% valor and heroism sci

Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
Starts with: 800 elites

[BigShotFancyMan]

Great job Amras. Last age I had a bit to say but I enjoy these proposed.

[North Southland]

I think these are good overall, too. I like the bandit personality.

A few notes, mostly small details:
– Despite your short description, I think halfling would make a better attacker than Bocan, actually – what with the extra pop and income penalty, respectively. The +10% casualties is not a big penalty if you're giving halflers hospitals – and they still have 2/2 soldiers plus aggression. On the flip side, Bocan gets a defensive elite, while halfling gets an utility unit – having used Halfling last age, when 5/5 elites were 200 gc, I can tell you cheap elites are a godsend in long, protracted wars.
– Human has ALL the science bonuses: more books, Revelation (more scientists), SI (more science effectiveness). This depends a lot on just how strong science is, but I think it could easily make humans OP in late age. Note that two out of these three are self-spells – how about bringing back -1% mana/hour and/or a 20% automatic spell fail? This would also make human/artisan a bit less strong (15% income plus all that science plus ToG?)
– Avian has the lowest def elite plus no ambush land loss protection – see where I'm getting at? They're gonna lose expensive units fast unless they use anonymity/war spoils every time. Why not give them +1 ospec? That way, at least they're losing specs.
– Faery is way too strong – -5% pop is not an insurmountable barrier, especially if you can cast a dozen self-spells and still have mana to go around. Faery/War Hero would be a scary proposition, even with a toned-down BL.
– Actually, war hero in general is too strong. Ditch the +1 ospec (or give it back to warrior and make them lose the +15% OME), ditch the PI.

[AmrasArFeiniel]

- Bocan has BL and fanat plus defensive elite, which means its base military stats are roughly what human has this age. So I wouldn't expect halfling to be quite as strong, but I'd leave it to sims to determine which could actually have more power. Certainly halfling can tank up more, though. Would be open to other suggestions! One thing I had on them previously was free prisoners steals prisoners instead (at some % perhaps), allowing them to grab quite a bit of extra offense while hurting opponents a decent amount and breathing some life into that forgotten op.
- +15% books is ~+7% sci effect, so this human only gets slightly more sci effect buff than today's human, but with an offensive elite instead of defensive. Could also see them continuing to have a defensive elite, maybe with +1 horses as in hex's proposal.
- Avian doesn't have higher losses in this proposal, but they do lose stuff faster because of fast attack times. I could maybe see giving them some ambush protection back, but their attacks are also really fast making it often possible to get army home before your opponent's anyway
- The pop penalty is a strong lever to adjust fae's power. If the overall concept is a good direction, just tuning up that penalty more will bring them in line.
- WH doesn't keep up without some kind of bonus to military strength i don't think. The idea I had behind it was to make it be able to reload quickly, which comes from PI and the increased draft and training sci and +1 specs (and also makes it a strong dragonslayer with dragon sci and +1 specs!). It's never going to hit the gains/speed of tact or the raw muscle of warrior (except oop) but as it hits it can quickly pop out more military and sustain. Could be too strong, but I wouldn't want to ditch too much that goes into that identity without an idea of a clear new identity for it.

[Andurilas]

This is hard to process from a balance perspective, but I do quite like the idea of putting a massacre bonus on Warrior. This change would need to take into account the current OP synergy with Warrior and *certain* races.

[Stimpo]

I would not mind seeing the Dryad race return, there is just so many interesting things you could do with a race that doesn't want to kill and stronger horses, especially if you are thinking "Natural paradise" where prisoners don't want to leave.

Prisoners per built acre
All enemy losses to prisoners while you have the space for prisoners
Rename the massacre attack and make all its kills into prisoners
Prisoners count towards filling more jobs then usual
Reduced prisoners losses on attacks

[AmrasArFeiniel]

Updated proposal that cribs some of hex's ideas and incorporates them, plus some more of mine:

BL removed
Fountain of Knowledge: +20% books produced
-20% base duration of MS, chastity, blizzard to account for mystic bonus
Support spells: add fanat

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Races
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Bocan

+1 ospec
+20% sabotage damage
+20% spec credits
can use credits for thieves

-10% income

5/7 elite 9nw 900gc
Spellbook: Fanat

Elf
+20% WPA
+30% rune production
+1 dspec

+20% wages

7/4 elite 8nw 800gc
Spellbook: MF, GP

Halfling
+10% pop
+20% TPA
-50% thief cost
can train elites with credits
2/2 soldiers

+10% casualties

5/5 elite 7nw 400gc
Spellbook: MA, Invis, Aggression

Human
+15% income
+1 horses

-15% WPA
+15% enemy spell damage

4/7 elite 8.5nw 900gc
Spellbook: IA, QF, Rev, SI, Fountain of Knowledge

Orc
+10% Battle gains
+15% enemy casualties
Free draft

-15% TPA
+15% enemy sabotage damage

9/3 elite 9nw 900gc
Spellbook: Aggression

Avian
-25% attack time
+30% birth rate
-25% military training time

cannot use stables or horses

8/3 elite 8nw 800gc
Spellbook: TW, fanat, GP

Dwarf
+25% BE
-50% construction cost
+50% building credits
Free building razing

+75% food needed

8/4 elite 9.5nw 950gc
Spellbook: QF, MA, IA, CS, Gluttony

Faery
+25% self spell duration
self spells cost 2 mana

-5% pop

4/8 elite 10nw 1100gc
Spellbook: MA, AD, QF, ToG, MF, Invis, Rev, RM, CS

Undead
-25% casualties
no food needed
spreads and is immune to plague
convert specs to elites

-10% sci effect
+10% attack time

10/3 elite 10.5nw 1100gc
Spellbook: AD, Vermin

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Personalities
=============

Mystic
+100% guild land effect
+50% channeling science
+1 mana/tick
+25% combat spell duration

Spellbook: MS, Chastity, Blizzard, Paradise
Starts with: 800 wiz

Assassin/Rogue
+100% TD land effect
+50% crime science
+1 stealth/tick
+20% NS damage
Access to GA, AW, Prop

Spellbook: Paradise
Starts with: 800 thieves

Bandit

+50% TD land effect
+25% gains on plunders, robs, and kidnaps
-50% merc cost
Can send 1 merc/prisoner per 4 loyal troops
Converts some mercs/prisoners to thieves on successful trads and plunders
Access to GA, SWH

Spellbook: Gluttony, Vermin
Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 thieves

Heretic
+50% guild land effect
+50% TD land effect
wiz don't die on failed spells
+35% channeling, crime, and cunning sci

Spellbook: ET, NM, FG, Amnesia, Paradise
Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

Cleric/Paladin
+50% guild land effect
-25% casualties
Immune to plague
can cast support spells on mates
+20% channeling, shielding, and invocation sci

Spellbook: Wrathful Smite, IS, PF, Magic Ward, BoI
Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 wiz

Tactician
-15% attack time
+50% siege sci
Accurate intel

Spellbook: War Spoils
Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

Engineer/Artisan
Immune to income penalties
+15% econ sciences
+15% land effect all buildings

Spellbook: ToG, Ghost Workers
Starts with: +1 scientist, 400 solds and creds

Berserker/Warrior
+15% OME
+15% gains on massacres
-25% casualties on conquest attacks
improved conquest range

Spellbook:
Starts with: 800 solds and creds

War Hero
+100% honor bonuses
+5% ME and battle gains in war
Convert specs to elites
+35% valor and heroism sci

Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
Starts with: 800 elites

[North Southland]

I don't know, man. These changes seem less interesting.
– Human, already strong enough, gets an extra bonus (why?) and has to cast a spell instead of getting the "lost" bonus outright. It's a boost, overall, and one they did not need.
– Orc got a +1 elite but lost Bloodlust, which is by far the best attacker spell. Doesn't sound like a fair trade to me – they went from being the attacker that dealt the most damage (in gains and losses) to a vanilla attacker, without the science bonus of humans or the sturdiness of dwarves. Which, by the way:
– Dwarf got a more offensive elite and quick feet, which is not bad but doesn't really fit into the "sturdy, adaptable attacker" as much.
– War Hero did get a bit nerfed, in that they lost the +1 ospec, but since those get converted anyway, I wonder if it's that much of a loss.

Not much else changed, except there's no BL now and there's a new spell that only humans (not even Faeries?) get.

As a pet peeve, I also don't get the point of giving War Hero a honor bonus, since they're usually attackers and attackers tend to have less honor due to the game mechanics. But that's neither here nor there, I guess.

[AmrasArFeiniel]

I think I mostly agree with you actually though I do like dwarf being a little better. And I’ve been saying wh honor bonus is kinda weird for ages now but :shrug: it can work out if you have a lot in your core and war a lot. Some of them at least might reach count. I was curious what BL going away might do since it was talked about in discord and in hex’s changes, but as long as it isn’t the crazy 20% one like it is now where things have to be balanced around it so heavily I think it’s fine.