Who won?

[Gergoth]

So Brute Force won?

GG Brute Force

[DonJuan]

I suppose you can say land/new crowns really only matter to the 100 or so players in the no more than 5 kds who really try hard.

For the rest of the server...normal people were surprised that The Faery Circle came in and took WW/Honor crowns on their first age.

You can say its a much more difficult crown to get since it required beating more opponents and doing more ops combined.

It actually went down to the wire when TFC got a last minute button to seal the WW crown and Carnage got within 1k honor in their EoA war

It was much more exciting than warning other kds to be "no bigger than 80% of our size or else"

[khronosschoty]

I suppose you can say land/new crowns really only matter to the 100 or so players in the no more than 5 kds who really try hard.

For the rest of the server...normal people were surprised that The Faery Circle came in and took WW/Honor crowns on their first age.

You can say its a much more difficult crown to get since it required beating more opponents and doing more ops combined.

It actually went down to the wire when TFC got a last minute button to seal the WW crown and Carnage got within 1k honor in their EoA war

It was much more exciting than warning other kds to be "no bigger than 80% of our size or else"

#propaganda

[octobrev]

If it was that fun to win by a little, wouldn't it be more fun to win by a lot?

[DonJuan]

lets say the highest payout in sports betting is usually the match up that is not well defined...I mean if you want to take the 2/1 odds on a proven winner then you may feel like you won yet its worth very little in a real sense

[Korp]

lets say the highest payout in sports betting is usually the match up that is not well defined...I mean if you want to take the 2/1 odds on a proven winner then you may feel like you won yet its worth very little in a real sense

So what you are saying is that you find luck better than actual skill.

[DonJuan]

LoL in terms of value...I can tell you that both the land/nw combo is as equal to WW/Honor ESPECIALLY now in the waning lifespan of this game.

You probably know the people in Giraffes (or any land/nw crown winners in last 15 ages) and can probably attest yourself that the only skill they really have is logging on when they need to or set sitter when they need to...the rest is pretty much luck anyways (since builds and training plans are typically force-fed...you no need skill to figure out what you need).

Win the first 2 wars with some luck that their setup & war plans is worse than yours...explore after the win and look to get lucky with another war target. Once your luck runs out and find no more targets willing to war you...then its just trimming fat provinces from 80% NW size and land tax waves KDs that get close to size.

In the grand picture...it may take more skill from the leadership to lead a NW/Land kd to crown but by average among all 25 players it requires the same or less skill to play in those types of KDs instead of war KDs who require more complex participation from each province individually.

I.e. Land/NW kds may use High-Off Races in their setup and have their majority attackers aid out runes and gather intel only. WW/Honor kds may use Hybrid Races in their setup and have everyone contribute to basic ops (NS) and spells (FB) aside from intel.

[Korp]

LoL in terms of value...I can tell you that both the land/nw combo is as equal to WW/Honor ESPECIALLY now in the waning lifespan of this game.

You probably know the people in Giraffes (or any land/nw crown winners in last 15 ages) and can probably attest yourself that the only skill they really have is logging on when they need to or set sitter when they need to...the rest is pretty much luck anyways (since builds and training plans are typically force-fed...you no need skill to figure out what you need).

Win the first 2 wars with some luck that their setup & war plans is worse than yours...explore after the win and look to get lucky with another war target. Once your luck runs out and find no more targets willing to war you...then its just trimming fat provinces from 80% NW size and land tax waves KDs that get close to size.

In the grand picture...it may take more skill from the leadership to lead a NW/Land kd to crown but by average among all 25 players it requires the same or less skill to play in those types of KDs instead of war KDs who require more complex participation from each province individually.

I.e. Land/NW kds may use High-Off Races in their setup and have their majority attackers aid out runes and gather intel only. WW/Honor kds may use Hybrid Races in their setup and have everyone contribute to basic ops (NS) and spells (FB) aside from intel.

Man you're circle jerking knows no boundaries. :)

[Syntico]

My mind is blown.

[octobrev]

Your short history in HoH has clearly left you with a shameful and incomplete view of top play. Warring kingdoms are just practice kingdoms. They don't even play the whole game but rather a self-defined mini-game within its boundaries.

Will expand in a couple hours.

[Madchess]

And yet half the time someone claiming to be from a top kingdom joins a warring kingdom due to "taking a break" they come across as people with a blown up ego and rarely delivers when it counts.

If they was really so much better why is this the case over and over or are we just seeing the rejects that got booted try to join the warring tier.

Personly happy enough to be warring tier, that can work well when you got a job and responsibilities, if someone want to ruin their sleep or mess up their real life responsibilities by all means call them top tier. I bet most of us are not in school/university anymore and that means you can't overdo this any longer.

Anyway just my comment to a comment, I did state that I think the win was deserved and I stick to that.

[octobrev]

And yet half the time someone claiming to be from a top kingdom joins a warring kingdom due to "taking a break" they come across as people with a blown up ego and rarely delivers when it counts.

If they was really so much better why is this the case over and over or are we just seeing the rejects that got booted try to join the warring tier.

A whole lot of people claim to be from top kingdoms... just about as many as claim to have played since the betas. I random around pretty much all the time and, when I encounter other top players, they typically aren't advertising it. There is a lot of coyness and modesty, or even trollish ignorance. That is, of course, assuming they acknowledge you at all. You guys are lucky because I love to acknowledge you! <3

I recall joining a ghetto on an off age to mingle with their leader who I had historically recruited into CR. One of the first orders of business was a loud mouthed "top player" that he wanted me to verify. Similar to the case you mentioned, he was not performing well and his story didn't match up. After some investigating, I found that this player's ego was tied to a single land/nw crown that he claimed while in HoH. Oh, that's right DJ... it was you.

For those of you who are not as familiar with 'topian history, HoH (HaLL of Heroes) was a mid-grade kingdom that re-emerged in the mid 40's. They obtained CFs in perpetuity from Absalom for siding with them some alliance spat against the Anti-ABS kingdoms and picked up two and a half sets of land/nw crowns over the next few years by keeping their heads down. They were dubbed "the new Playboys" because contentious ages would result in the flagship kingdoms tying each other up and defaulting the crown to them. An HoH crown was far more palatable to the Anti-ABS siders than letting Rage or Sanc slip through.

You probably know the people in Giraffes (or any land/nw crown winners in last 15 ages) and can probably attest yourself that the only skill they really have is logging on when they need to or set sitter when they need to...the rest is pretty much luck anyways (since builds and training plans are typically force-fed...you no need skill to figure out what you need).

I can attest! To the opposite being true. If Giraffes is anything like CRv2 or the kingdoms that preceded it, the culture is notoriously decentralized. Planning, speculating, and leadership discussions are conducted primarily in the main channel, except in times of conflict when the uptick in activity makes it impossible. How can one breed strong players if they're cut off from all the information that matters? Never made much sense to me.

Growth periods don't have much more than a general timeline. We do monitor growth and target finding practices (no retals allowed) but everyone is pretty much on their own so long as they deliver land. Experimentation and intra-competition are all the rage during oow periods.

Leading up to and during conflicts things are centrally controlled. This is by design. We operate at a level that you have never experienced and, since it no longer exists, you will never have the opportunity to understand. Here is a sample. I assume the "skills" you're alluding to would be things like overpop management? Anybody who has studied their flogger will tell you that chaining necessitates centrally controlled overpopulation planning because knowledge of the projected offenses on the current chain targets is needed to determine the correct amount of defense to protect.

Also, my account has not had a sitter since age 50. They disgust me too.

Win the first 2 wars with some luck that their setup & war plans is worse than yours...explore after the win and look to get lucky with another war target. Once your luck runs out and find no more targets willing to war you...then its just trimming fat provinces from 80% NW size and land tax waves KDs that get close to size.

Gambling is an addiction. Look at poor ol' Anri. He relied on luck/wars. Nothing we do is a gamble. There are only two principles: omniscience and omnipotence. It's nice when opportunities present themselves but they can just as well be created. Have you seen my confessions?

The crown oriented kingdoms that I've been involved with collectively boast a 70% success rate. 78% if you exclude the a loss relating to unprecedented mid-age mechanical changes. That's better than black or red on roulette. Better than counting cards in blackjack. If one didn't know better they might think it an investment.

In the grand picture...it may take more skill from the leadership to lead a NW/Land kd to crown but by average among all 25 players it requires the same or less skill to play in those types of KDs instead of war KDs who require more complex participation from each province individually.

Just... absolutely not. 1v1 me.

I.e. Land/NW kds may use High-Off Races in their setup and have their majority attackers aid out runes and gather intel only. WW/Honor kds may use Hybrid Races in their setup and have everyone contribute to basic ops (NS) and spells (FB) aside from intel.

I'm not comfortable with this assumption that high-off races are used so exclusively. Anything can be anything. We frequently set those high-off races up as hybrids in segments of the spread we feel benefit from them. Flexibility is key. It's the warring kingdoms that pigeon hole themselves into specific roles at age start. I'll have no part in it.

Personly happy enough to be warring tier, that can work well when you got a job and responsibilities, if someone want to ruin their sleep or mess up their real life responsibilities by all means call them top tier. I bet most of us are not in school/university anymore and that means you can't overdo this any longer.

Such wise. I have no avenue through which to dispute this.

[Korp]

+1 octo

[Madchess]

That could be the case, really impressive people don't need to flash their achievements but can naturally impress. Happy to have meet a number of those people in the warring tier over the ages, sometimes they can go to growth kingdoms and perform quite well there also, even if most don't have such interests, maybe that is why the two tiers disagree to some extend who is the better, I don't know.

Smart people don't blindly follow orders, they can also question them or adapt to the situation if/when a change of plan is in order, and with the right leadership they can shine regardless of the goal. And dfinally there are smart people in both growth and warring tier, there probably are also bad players in both tiers whith nothing but activity to show.

Just a bit annoyed that so many no-good players claim one thing or another and you know they are gooing to ragequit or fail you misserably not even halfway into the age.

[CannaWhoopazz]

It's much harder to go from WW/Honor to Land/NW than vice versa. This is evidenced by the few warring kingdoms that have successfully made the jump.

You probably know the people in Giraffes (or any land/nw crown winners in last 15 ages) and can probably attest yourself that the only skill they really have is logging on when they need to or set sitter when they need to...the rest is pretty much luck anyways (since builds and training plans are typically force-fed...you no need skill to figure out what you need).

[SNIP]

In the grand picture...it may take more skill from the leadership to lead a NW/Land kd to crown but by average among all 25 players it requires the same or less skill to play in those types of KDs instead of war KDs who require more complex participation from each province individually.

This ^^^ is just wrong. A successful warring kingdom also "force-feeds" builds and training plans. Both WW/Honor and Land/NW kingdoms use attackers that can make ops (why waste the stealth and mana on all your attackers?!). In both kingdom types, the "general population" is told exactly what to do in wars and hostiles.

I was once like you and thought whoring was the easy way to play. Both have their challenges, to be sure.