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Thread: Work in progress Age 83 suggestions

  1. #1
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    Work in progress Age 83 suggestions

    Been noodling on suggestions throughout the early part of the age. Here's what I have so far, looking for feedback and other suggestions:

    Military numbers getting toned down just a bit from this age. Adding some A/T and A/M race/pers.

    General changes:

    Paradise back on just the t/m personalities. Think it mainly belongs on them as they have less options for growing than attackers.

    MS base duration -> 4-10 ticks (currently 5-12 I think?). MS is really strong, and toning it down slightly won't make mystic picked any less. Plus elf is getting bonus casting duration and that plus normal duration of ms would be too much.

    SI back to +10%, now on human. SI at 10% was mainly a problem because any cleric automatically gave it to everyone. Now you have to specifically tech in a human/cleric into your comp to get it.

    Buff amnesia, now heretic only. Amnesia isn't really used. Buff it and make it heretic only so you have to spend a slot on a heretic to get it.

    incite riots now only heretic and bandit. IR is awesome econ control. Tone down its power by restricting it to bandit and heretic.

    Support spells: add fanat. Fanat isn't THAT strong and this would give some extra flexibility to some compositions wanting a little extra offense here and there.

    =====
    Races
    =====

    Dark Elf

    +20% spell damage
    Prisoners decay to wizards over time (5%/tick)
    Dungeons hold 50 prisoners
    80% of enemy casualties are captured as prisoners (usually 66%)
    Prisoners fight with 7 strength
    80% prisoners return from combat (normally 50%)

    -20% birth rate

    4/7 elite 8nw 800gc
    spellbook: BL, fanat

    Got inspired by the prisoners converting to elites this age. I've been looking for a way to let an attacking race sustain WPA some, and this might be a good way to do it. DE is a prisoner focused A/M race. They can gain a lot of prisoners due to the fact that they capture more prisoners in combat and more return from combat, plus the extra casualties from BL. These prisoners are stronger, giving them the offense they need to compete as an attacking race, and then also the prisoners will decay into wizards (Dark Elves enslave the souls of their dead prisoners and use them to power their dark magic), allowing them to sustain WPA somewhat as they hit hard and grow. It loses out on birth rate so it can't abuse the WPA sustain while growing too much for econ.

    Bocan

    +1 ospec
    +20% sabotage damage
    +30% spec credits
    can use credits for thieves

    -10% income

    5/7 elite 8.5nw 850gc
    Spellbook: fanat, gluttony

    Bocan is my attempt at an A/T focused race. It can attack decently with the +1 ospec and defensive elite, and it gets extra spec creds which can be used to sustain both its spec-based offense and its TPA. It loses out on income because it's expected to sustain via credits mostly.

    Elf
    +25% WPA
    +25% combat spell duration
    +1 dspec

    +15% wages

    7/4 elite 9nw 900gc
    Spellbook: GP, Chastity

    Elf shifts back toward the turtle-y mage, moving casting on mates back over to fae. Extra combat spell duration makes it ideal for long-term control of oponents via MS/chastity/storms/greed/etc. It gets a wages penalty because its dspecs are very efficient compared with the other more defensive t/m-oriented races.

    Halfling
    +10% pop
    +25% TPA
    -50% thief cost
    can train elites with credits

    +10% casualties

    5/5 elite 7nw 400gc
    Spellbook: MA, IA, Aggression

    Halfling is the turtle-y thief race. Removing the no hospitals penalty in favor of a raw casualties penalty so it can better explore more of the A/T spectrum via hospitals and switching the houses bonus back to a pop bonus so it doesn't have to build homes to be good. Also making its elite smaller but letting it train elites with credits, giving it some more flexibility in war.

    Human
    +15% income
    -15% wages

    -15% WPA
    +15% enemy spell damage

    8/4 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: QF, SI, Rev, FoK

    Partial revert of human back to a few ages ago when it had income and sci bonuses and tanky offensive elite. Balancing the income bonus with wages so EOWCF isn't too OP, and bringing in the sci bonuses via spells. WPA and spell damage penalties to sharpen its weakness to good econ control. Human should be a strong attacker that just gets better as the age goes on and lets a kd center its power around econ control and pushing out dragons.

    Orc
    +15% Battle gains
    +10% enemy casualties
    Free draft
    2/2 soldiers

    -15% TPA
    +15% enemy sabotage damage

    Tuning down orc some from this age since its offense is pretty crazy. Also removing the autofails because those are just lame and shifting its penalties more toward opening it up to heavy thief shelling, which is a good way to deal with it since its extra combat gains give it extra incoming land, making chains less effective. Synergizing the draft bonus more with 2/2 solds and aggression.

    8/3 elite 9.5nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: BL, Aggression

    Avian
    -25% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -25% military training time
    +10% OME
    Cannot be ambushed

    cannot use stables or horses
    -15% battle gains

    Avian felt a little weak this age. Helping it out by dropping the elite offense but giving it right back with +10% ME. Avian is an efficient, fast attacker, gets free anon (but stil gets honor), and can also fill in its land quickly with the bonus birth rate and training speed, but lacks the raw power of other attackers.

    8/2 elite 8nw 800gc
    Spellbook: TW

    Dwarf
    +25% BE
    -50% construction cost
    +50% building credits
    20% of enemy spells and ops fail

    +75% food needed

    7/5 elite 9.5nw 950gc
    Spellbook: GP, TW, IA

    Dwarf also feels lackluster this age. Boosting their sturdiness with enemy autofail and TW, making them very hard to pull down. They lack raw offense, but they make up for it in all-around strength and flexibility and sturdiness. The construction cost and building credit bonuses basically give them -50% build time if they choose to accelerate, but leaves the flexibility of doing so or not.

    Faery
    +25% self spell duration
    cast spells on mates
    +1 mana/tick

    -10% pop

    4/8 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: MA, AD, QF, TW, BL, MF, Invis, Rev

    Faery swapping with elf to be the cast on mates race, grabbing the +1 mana for itself. Rather than getting all racial spells, it just gets some of the really big spells to go along with its self-spell bonus. It still gets the pop penalty to make up for its strong elite, but the elite gets a lot cheaper due to lack of ToG, which moves over to artisan.

    Undead
    +1 horses
    -30% casualties
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -20% sci effect

    9/3 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: AD, Vermin

    I still just don't like undead having conversions and all the bonuses and penalties that have to come with it to balance it. Tuning it back to something more simple and straightforward: plague, low casualties, high raw offense, but less scaling due to sci penalty. Undead can hit hard and in particular can reach up and hit those pesky tanky t/ms and spread plague to them, opening them up for your other attackers to hit.

    =============
    Personalities
    =============

    Mystic
    +150% guild land effect
    +60% channeling science
    +30% rune production

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, Paradise
    Starts with: 800 wiz

    About the same as this age, mystic is about duration damage and mainly MS.

    Assassin/Rogue
    +75% TD land effect
    +60% crime science
    +1 stealth/tick
    +20% NS damage
    Access to GA, AW, Prop

    Spellbook: Paradise
    Starts with: 800 thieves

    A little adjustment to rogue. Instead of the guilds bonus, it gets a bonus to NS damage. This lets it still be a very strong superthief, but also lets it explore a bit in the A/T direction and be focused more on NS for thief damage when you don't have the TPA to land AW and prop.

    Bandit
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% income and crime sci
    +25% gains on plunders, robs, and kidnaps
    -50% merc cost
    Mercs fight at 7 strength
    Converts some mercs to thieves on successful trads and plunders
    Access to GA, SWH, incite riots

    Spellbook: Gluttony, Vermin
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 thieves

    Bandit is my proposal for an A/T personality. Mainly bonuses to stealing stuff and mercs. Steal gc so you can buy cheap mercs and hit hard with those stolen horses and convert the mercs to more thieves for some TPA sustain. Also gets IR for extra econ control ability along with the robbing.

    Heretic
    +50% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    wiz don't die on failed spells
    +35% channeling, crime, and cunning sci
    Access to GA, incite riots

    Spellbook: ET, NM, FG, Amnesia, Paradise
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

    Heretic feels a little underwhelming this age except in a NM-focused comp. Give it some additional flexibility with ET, stronger amnesia, GA and IR and TD bonus and sci rather than raw WPA/TPA to give more scaling TPA and thief losses, focusing it more on being a T/M rather than a hybrid.

    Cleric/Paladin
    +50% guild land effect
    -30% casualties
    Immune to plague
    cast support spells on mates
    +20% channeling, shielding, and invocation sci

    Spellbook: AD, DS, Wrathful Smite, IS, PF, ET
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 wiz

    Cleric is an A/m kind of personality that focuses on casualties and supporting mates. It's sturdy with DS, IS, and some shielding sci bonus, it can be a ritual slave with extra invocation sci, it casts spells on mates, it has WS and PF. Lots of utility and sturdiness without a whole lot of raw power.

    Tactician
    -15% attack time
    +40% siege sci
    Accurate intel

    Spellbook: War Spoils, CS
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

    Giving tact more tactical options with WS, and increasing its siege sci instead of it getting building creds. Tact is all about grabbing land.

    Engineer/Artisan
    Immune to income penalties
    +15% econ sciences
    +10% land effect all buildings

    Spellbook: ToG, Ghost Workers, RM
    Starts with: +1 scientist, 400 solds and creds

    A bit of a rework of artisan toward all-around power instead of just better econ. Also gets RM to mitigate some econ control if it is used in more of an econ-oriented fashion. Somewhat of a hybrid of old sage and something more buildings-focused.

    Berserker/Warrior
    +10% OME
    +30% tactics sci
    +15% gains on massacres
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: Aggression
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds

    Tweaking warrior back to more raw offense focused rather than training time (which I'm giving more to war hero). It gets a lot of raw power and can be a t/m-buster with better CQ ability and stronger massacres.

    War Hero
    +100% honor bonuses
    Prisoners convert to elites over time (5%/tick)
    Convert specs to elites
    +35% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites

    Adjusting war hero to be more of the "reload" attacker personality. Conversions, bonuses to draft speed and training speed, and prisoners converting to elites, plus PI, let it reload its offense very quickly throughout war, and also give it a very fast start.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmrasArFeiniel View Post
    Paradise back on just the t/m personalities. Think it mainly belongs on them as they have less options for growing than attackers.
    I don't see any harm on having paradise on attackers, and sometimes it helps when you get chained OOW.

    MS base duration -> 4-10 ticks (currently 5-12 I think?). MS is really strong, and toning it down slightly won't make mystic picked any less. Plus elf is getting bonus casting duration and that plus normal duration of ms would be too much.
    I agree that it is strong, but I haven't picked mystic since maybe age 40ish and, other than paired with faery or elf, it's not a popular personality. This wouldn't help.

    Buff amnesia, now heretic only. Amnesia isn't really used. Buff it and make it heretic only so you have to spend a slot on a heretic to get it.
    Maybe just buff amnesia? I use it occasionally, especially as the age progresses. It's an ok spell in addition to all the others.

    Or you could make it a temporary spell, like MS, and buff it a lot (like, science is 100% uneffective for its duration).

    incite riots now only heretic and bandit. IR is awesome econ control. Tone down its power by restricting it to bandit and heretic.
    Rogue has always had all thievery ops and I think it should stay that way. That being said, I wouldn't have a problem with these three getting IR it is fairly strong and, since it costs so many thieves, only dedicated thieves do it anyway, most of the time.


    Dark Elf

    +20% spell damage
    Prisoners decay to wizards over time (5%/tick)
    Dungeons hold 50 prisoners
    80% of enemy casualties are captured as prisoners (usually 66%)
    Prisoners fight with 7 strength
    80% prisoners return from combat (normally 50%)

    -20% birth rate

    4/7 elite 8nw 800gc
    spellbook: BL, fanat
    their prisoner decay bonus would lead to an INSANE wpa. For comparison, I'm playing an Elf/Warrior this age, and I usually get ≈10 elites/tick, with troops more or less constantly out and normal capture rates. By comparison, I get ≈3 wizards per tick with 20% guilds.

    With this proposal as is, Dark Elf would get around 20 wizards/tick (double the decay rate and more prisoners) which is frankly absurd, especially since wizards die at a much lesser rate than elites. It's not a bad idea, but numbers need to be tweaked substantially. Alternatively, instead of decay, why not make some released prisoners (or some other troop, maybe) convert to wizards on each attack? That would allow Dark Elves to function effectively as an A/M, getting more wizards as they gain land.

    Bocan

    +1 ospec
    +20% sabotage damage
    +30% spec credits
    can use credits for thieves

    -10% income

    5/7 elite 8.5nw 850gc
    Spellbook: fanat, gluttony
    Ok civ, sounds interesting but not too strong. Maybe the elite should be more expensive and/or have more NW.

    Elf
    +25% WPA
    +25% combat spell duration
    +1 dspec

    +15% wages

    7/4 elite 9nw 900gc
    Spellbook: GP, Chastity
    I don't think Elf should lose its support role; I'll elaborate further down.

    Halfling
    +10% pop
    +25% TPA
    -50% thief cost
    can train elites with credits

    +10% casualties

    5/5 elite 7nw 400gc
    Spellbook: MA, IA, Aggression
    The thing about adding more casualties is that you make them less efficient at turtling up. No hospitals doesn't hurt halflings as much because their units are cheap.

    The same goes with giving them +10% pop instead of making it house-related. Yes, it's a more direct way to achieve the same but houses also boost birth rate, which pairs well with the high-casualty, weak-unit, no-hospitals, mass attack which is the halfling attacker. This loses that particular flavor in favor of a hum-dum thief race.

    Also, where is Town Watch? Bring it back!

    Also (x2), no 2/2 soldiers? how come?

    Human
    +15% income
    -15% wages

    -15% WPA
    +15% enemy spell damage

    8/4 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: QF, SI, Rev, FoK
    This human seems a bit too strong. The elite is good, the bonii have synergy with each other, and you've given them a lot of spells without taking away -1% mana, which kept them in check. It's not an unstoppable machine, but it's pretty strong.

    Orc
    +15% Battle gains
    +10% enemy casualties
    Free draft
    2/2 soldiers

    -15% TPA
    +15% enemy sabotage damage

    8/3 elite 9.5nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: BL, Aggression
    This elite is weaker than the human's, which I think doesn't make much sense. I do like strong soldiers + aggresion.

    Avian
    -25% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -25% military training time
    +10% OME
    Cannot be ambushed

    cannot use stables or horses
    -15% battle gains

    8/2 elite 8nw 800gc
    Spellbook: TW
    Oh, there is town watch. Why? I would also allow ambushes on avians, even if it's for less land ambushes often aren't about taking land back, but about killing offense, and this avian has good offense (not as good as human, though) and no casualty penalty.

    Dwarf
    +25% BE
    -50% construction cost
    +50% building credits
    20% of enemy spells and ops fail

    +75% food needed

    7/5 elite 9.5nw 950gc
    Spellbook: GP, TW, IA
    The auto-fail bonus seems just so lazy.

    Faery
    +25% self spell duration
    cast spells on mates
    +1 mana/tick

    -10% pop

    4/8 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: MA, AD, QF, TW, BL, MF, Invis, Rev
    The civ that gets the most spells shouldn't be the one with support spell casting. It's just too easy.

    I also like that Faery gets all spells as it is, they no longer have fanaticism, which further diminishes their value as an attacker.

    Undead
    +1 horses
    -30% casualties
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -20% sci effect

    9/3 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: AD, Vermin
    The strongest elite, the strongest horses, and -30% casualties so you can't even kill the bastards? Hard pass I think we've all learnt this age the foolishness of giving the strongest elite to the most durable race.

    Mystic
    +150% guild land effect
    +60% channeling science
    +30% rune production

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, Paradise
    Starts with: 800 wiz

    About the same as this age, mystic is about duration damage and mainly MS.
    It seems pretty boring to give one strong spell to a personality, especially if it's also a nerfed spell. I also don't see the point of increased rune production if you're gonna do long(ish)-lasting spells, which demand much less runes.

    Assassin/Rogue
    +75% TD land effect
    +60% crime science
    +1 stealth/tick
    +20% NS damage
    Access to GA, AW, Prop

    Spellbook: Paradise
    Starts with: 800 thieves
    This makes for a poor T/M, which I get is what you're going for but consider the fact that no race has good guilds. Elf has a WPA bonus, and Dark Elf gets a (currently stupid) amount of extra wizards, but you can't go the a/t/m route with the latter so, if you want to play T/M as rogue, you're forced to pick Elf.

    And this personality doesn't even get invisibility (that would be faery, which gets no WPA bonuses and sucks at attacking, so why would you pair it with Rogue?)

    Bandit
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% income and crime sci
    +25% gains on plunders, robs, and kidnaps
    -50% merc cost
    Mercs fight at 7 strength
    Converts some mercs to thieves on successful trads and plunders
    Access to GA, SWH, incite riots

    Spellbook: Gluttony, Vermin
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 thieves
    This, on the other hand, is a much more solid A/T personality.

    Heretic
    +50% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    wiz don't die on failed spells
    +35% channeling, crime, and cunning sci
    Access to GA, incite riots

    Spellbook: ET, NM, FG, Amnesia, Paradise
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves
    No comment. It's an ok personality but heretic is always hard to balance, and now even more so when there's two other thief personalities.

    I would seriously consider merging this one with bandit, though that would necessarily require to get rid of some bonuses.

    Cleric/Paladin
    +50% guild land effect
    -30% casualties
    Immune to plague
    cast support spells on mates
    +20% channeling, shielding, and invocation sci

    Spellbook: AD, DS, Wrathful Smite, IS, PF, ET
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 wiz
    Cleric is fine. Just like last age, I think.

    Tactician
    -15% attack time
    +40% siege sci
    Accurate intel

    Spellbook: War Spoils, CS
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits
    less attack time, more gains (via science) and WS (which makes it impossible to ambush) means Tactician is way, way too strong as an attacker. Sure, it doesn't have raw power but it gains lots and gains it fast. And gaining lots of land, fast, is what wins wars.

    Engineer/Artisan
    Immune to income penalties
    +15% econ sciences
    +10% land effect all buildings

    Spellbook: ToG, Ghost Workers, RM
    Starts with: +1 scientist, 400 solds and creds
    This seems way too strong. +15% on all econ sciences? And 10% more land?

    Berserker/Warrior
    +10% OME
    +30% tactics sci
    +15% gains on massacres
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: Aggression
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds
    This seems like the perfect personality to crack T/Ms, which is an interesting idea in theory but pretty boring in practice. I like warrior much better as it is the personality that simply won't go down.

    War Hero
    +100% honor bonuses
    Prisoners convert to elites over time (5%/tick)
    Convert specs to elites
    +35% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites

    Adjusting war hero to be more of the "reload" attacker personality. Conversions, bonuses to draft speed and training speed, and prisoners converting to elites, plus PI, let it reload its offense very quickly throughout war, and also give it a very fast start.
    Way too strong.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm working on a second round slowly but surely and will take this into account.

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    Ok here's a 2nd pass. I made some adjustments based on your feedback and tried to address your comments that I didn't take in the descriptions of the races/personalities. Would appreciate another round of thoughts! One thing I kept that I didn't really talk about was swapping fae and elf's roles. I find it odd that fae gets a wpa boost, ostensibly for offensive spell use, and yet also gets tons of self spells. Seems to conflict some, so giving them mana and casting on others feels like a more natural combination of strengths. Also elected not to give a guild buff or IR back to rogue yet because I wanted to make them more pure superthief focused on immediate damage rather than Econ control and not a t/m as a whole, but I could maybe be convinced otherwise.

    General changes:

    David has mentioned he likes the 10 pt specs he's experimented on gen, so I'm going to go with a 10 pt spec based proposal now.

    spec nw: 0.5 per off, 0.6 per def
    soldiers to 2/2 base
    horses: 3 strength, 0.4 nw/strength (very slight nerf proportionally)
    dragons: +70% HP
    Mercs / prisoners are 8 base

    SI back to +10%, now on human. SI at 10% was mainly a problem because any cleric automatically gave it to everyone. Now you have to specifically tech in a human/cleric into your comp to get it.

    Buff amnesia, now heretic only. Amnesia isn't really used. Buff it and make it heretic only so you have to spend a slot on a heretic to get it.

    incite riots now only heretic and bandit. IR is awesome econ control. Tone down its power by restricting it to bandit and heretic.

    Support spells: add fanat. Fanat isn't THAT strong and this would give some extra flexibility to some compositions wanting a little extra offense here and there. Also add Rev but reduce its effect to 15% (maybe 10%?) and add FoK. This gives some more ways for casting on mates to be spread around to a variety of race/personality choices to round out a composition. GP, IA, SI, Aggression, and fanat on various races, and DS, IS, Rev, both WS, FoK, and PI on personalities. More strategic diversity!


    =====
    Races
    =====

    Dark Elf

    +20% spell damage
    X% of prisoners are converted to wizards on successful trads (X TBD)
    Dungeons hold 50 prisoners
    80% of enemy casualties are captured as prisoners (usually 66%)
    Prisoners are +4
    80% prisoners return from combat (normally 50%)

    -20% birth rate

    7/12 elite 9nw 900gc
    spellbook: BL, fanat

    Got inspired by the prisoners converting to elites this age. I've been looking for a way to let an attacking race sustain WPA some, and this might be a good way to do it. DE is a prisoner focused A/M race. They can gain a lot of prisoners due to the fact that they capture more prisoners in combat and more return from combat, plus the extra casualties from BL. These prisoners are stronger, giving them the offense they need to compete as an attacking race, and then also the prisoners turn into wizards (Dark Elves enslave the souls of their dead prisoners and use them to power their dark magic), allowing them to sustain WPA somewhat as they hit hard and grow. It loses out on birth rate so it can't abuse the WPA sustain while growing too much for econ. The extra offense and WPA sustain can be somewhat countered by spending stealth on free prisoners against DEs.

    Bocan

    +2 ospec
    +20% sabotage damage
    +30% spec credits
    can use credits for thieves

    -10% income

    8/12 elite 9.5nw 950gc
    Spellbook: fanat, gluttony

    Bocan is my attempt at an A/T focused race. It can attack decently with the +1 ospec and defensive elite, and it gets extra spec creds which can be used to sustain both its spec-based offense and its TPA. It loses out on income because it's expected to sustain via credits mostly.

    Elf
    +25% WPA
    +30% rune production
    +2 dspec

    +15% explore cost

    12/7 elite 9nw 900gc
    Spellbook: GP, Chastity

    Elf shifts back toward the turtle-y mage, moving casting on mates back over to fae.

    Halfling
    +10% pop
    +25% TPA
    -50% thief cost
    can train elites with credits
    3/3 soldiers

    -30% hospital land effect

    9/9 elite 7.5nw 450gc
    Spellbook: MA, IA, Aggression

    Halfling is the turtle-y thief race. Switching the houses bonus back to a pop bonus so it doesn't have to build homes to be good. Reducing the hospital penalty so it can explore the A/T spectrum a little bit better. Also making its elite smaller but letting it train elites with credits, giving it some more flexibility in war.

    Human
    +15% income
    +10% sci spawn rate
    +10% books produced

    -20% WPA
    +20% enemy spell damage

    14/6 elite 10nw 1050gc
    Spellbook: QF, IA, SI

    Partial revert of human back to a few ages ago when it had income and sci bonuses and tanky offensive elite. Balancing the income bonus with wages (via IA) so EOWCF isn't too OP. WPA and spell damage penalties to sharpen its weakness to good econ control. Human should be a strong attacker that just gets better as the age goes on and lets a kd center its power around econ control and pushing out dragons.

    Orc
    +15% Battle gains
    +10% enemy casualties
    Free draft
    4/2 soldiers

    -20% TPA
    +20% enemy sabotage damage

    15/5 elite 9.5nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: Aggression

    Tuning down orc some from this age since its offense is pretty crazy. Also removing the autofails because those are just lame and shifting its penalties more toward opening it up to heavy thief shelling, which is a good way to deal with it since its extra combat gains give it extra incoming land, making chains less effective. Synergizing the draft bonus more with 4/2 solds and aggression.


    Avian
    -25% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -25% military training time
    -50% land lost on ambushes

    cannot use stables or horses
    -10% battle gains

    14/4 elite 8nw 800gc
    Spellbook: TW, fanat, GP

    Avian felt a little weak this age. Helping it out by removing all the casualties penalties (it already burns out quickly with speed and -gains) and giving it a bit more speed back. Avian is an efficient, fast attacker, gets free semi-anon (but still gets honor), and can also fill in its land quickly with the bonus birth rate and training speed, but lacks the raw power of other attackers. TW is added to mitigate getting chained with all the extra peons


    Dwarf
    +25% BE
    -50% construction cost
    -50% raze cost
    +30% building credits

    +75% food needed

    13/8 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: MA, GP, TW, IA, CS

    Dwarf also feels lackluster this age. Boosting their sturdiness with MA (instead of RM), CS, and TW, making them very hard to pull down. They lack raw offense, but they make up for it in all-around strength and flexibility and sturdiness. The construction cost and building credit bonuses basically give them -50% build time if they choose to accelerate, but leaves the flexibility of doing so or not.

    Faery
    +25% self spell duration
    cast spells on mates
    +1 mana/tick

    -5% pop

    7/13 elite 10.5nw 1050gc
    Spellbook: MA, AD, QF, IA, TW, BL, MF, Invis, CS

    Faery swapping with elf to be the cast on mates race, grabbing the +1 mana for itself. Rather than getting all racial spells, it just gets some of the really big spells to go along with its self-spell bonus. It still gets the pop penalty to make up for its strong elite, but the elite gets a lot cheaper due to lack of ToG, which moves over to artisan.

    Undead
    -30% casualties
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -10% sci effect

    14/5 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: AD, Vermin

    I still just don't like undead having conversions and all the bonuses and penalties that have to come with it to balance it. Tuning it back to something more simple and straightforward: plague, low casualties, high raw offense, but less scaling due to sci penalty. Undead can hit hard and sustain well, as well as plague hard-to-bring-down opponents, opening them up for a better chain.

    =============
    Personalities
    =============

    Mystic
    +150% guild land effect
    +60% channeling science
    +25% combat spell duration

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, Revelation
    Starts with: 800 wiz

    Giving mystic a little spice with combat spell duration (MS should be considered for a base duration reduction), letting it provide some particularly nasty duration spells beyond just its standard MS bot use.

    Assassin/Rogue
    +75% TD land effect
    +60% crime science
    +1 stealth/tick
    +20% NS damage
    Access to GA, AW, Prop

    Spellbook: Revelation
    Starts with: 800 thieves

    A little adjustment to rogue. Instead of the guilds bonus, it gets a bonus to NS damage. This lets it still be a very strong superthief, but also lets it explore a bit in the A/T direction and be focused more on NS for thief damage when you don't have the TPA to land AW and prop.

    Bandit
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% income and crime sci
    +25% gains on plunders, robs, and kidnaps
    -50% merc cost
    Mercs are +4
    Converts some mercs to thieves on successful trads and plunders
    Access to GA, SWH, incite riots

    Spellbook: Gluttony, Vermin
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 thieves

    Bandit is my proposal for an A/T personality. Mainly bonuses to stealing stuff and mercs. Steal gc so you can buy cheap mercs and hit hard with those stolen horses and convert the mercs to more thieves for some TPA sustain. Also gets IR for extra econ control ability along with the robbing.

    Heretic
    +50% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    wiz don't die on failed spells
    +35% channeling, crime, and cunning sci
    Access to GA, incite riots

    Spellbook: ET, NM, FG, Amnesia, Revelation
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

    Heretic feels a little underwhelming this age except in a NM-focused comp. Give it some additional flexibility with ET, stronger amnesia, GA and IR and TD bonus and sci rather than raw WPA/TPA to give more scaling TPA and thief losses, focusing it more on being a T/M rather than a hybrid.

    Cleric/Paladin
    +50% guild land effect
    -30% casualties
    Immune to plague
    cast support spells on mates
    +20% channeling, shielding, and invocation sci

    Spellbook: AD, DS, IS, ET
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 wiz

    Cleric is an A/m kind of personality that focuses on casualties and supporting mates. It's sturdy with DS, IS, and some shielding sci bonus, it can be a ritual slave with extra invocation sci, it casts spells on mates. Lots of utility and sturdiness without a whole lot of raw power.

    Tactician
    -15% attack time
    +40% siege sci
    Accurate intel

    Spellbook: War Spoils
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

    Giving tact more tactical options with WS, and increasing its siege sci instead of it getting building creds. Tact is all about grabbing land. WS is generally a pretty underused spell, particularly in war where it tends to just be a noob trap, opening a province up to a devastating chain. On tact it could potentially find more traction with lower attack time allowing a tact to judiciously use WS when opponent return times don't give them the opportunity to land a strong chain.

    Engineer/Artisan
    Immune to income penalties
    +15% econ sciences

    Spellbook: ToG, Ghost Workers, FoK
    Starts with: +1 scientist, 400 solds and creds

    A bit of a rework of artisan toward all-around power instead of just better econ. Somewhat of a hybrid of old sage and something more buildings-focused.

    Warrior
    +10% OME
    +20% tactics sci
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: Wrathful Smite, Pitfalls
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds

    Tweaking warrior back to more raw offense focused rather than training time (which I'm giving more to war hero). It gets a lot of raw power and can be a t/m-buster with better CQ ability, and it will hit hard and be a painful nut to crack with PF and WS. WS also gives it a useful pairing with casting on mates.

    War Hero
    +100% Honor bonuses
    Elites have +1 offense
    Convert specs to elites
    +30% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites

    Adjusting war hero to be more of the "reload" attacker personality. Conversions, bonuses to draft speed and training speed plus PI, let it reload its offense very quickly throughout war, and also give it a very fast start. Focusing the offense bonus on elites rather than a raw OME boost makes conversions a little more attractive for defensive elite races and is a smaller bonus than this age when it's fairly OP for offensive elite races.
    Last edited by AmrasArFeiniel; 30-08-2019 at 23:57.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    35
    An update based on some feedback. Mainly trying to give some more spicy flavor to things people identified as weak or bland.

    General changes:

    David has mentioned he likes the 10 pt specs he's experimented on gen, so I'm going to go with a 10 pt spec based proposal now.

    spec nw: 0.5 per off, 0.6 per def
    soldiers to 2/2 base
    horses: 3 strength, 0.4 nw/strength (very slight nerf proportionally)
    dragons: +70% HP
    Mercs / prisoners are 8 base

    SI back to +10%, now on human. SI at 10% was mainly a problem because any cleric automatically gave it to everyone. Now you have to specifically tech in a human/cleric into your comp to get it.

    Buff amnesia, now heretic only. Amnesia isn't really used. Buff it and make it heretic only so you have to spend a slot on a heretic to get it.

    IR is awesome econ control. Tone down its power by reducing it's base duration 20% but giving bonuses to duration in specific places.

    Fireball is also really strong and a bit overused IMO. May be worth tuning down its base damage a little (10-15%). I added a fireball bonus to elves as well, so this would let them continue to shine as econ control while reducing the standard high power of it.

    Support spells: add fanat. Fanat isn't THAT strong and this would give some extra flexibility to some compositions wanting a little extra offense here and there. Also add Rev but reduce its effect to 15% (maybe 10%?) and add FoK. This gives some more ways for casting on mates to be spread around to a variety of race/personality choices to round out a composition. GP, IA, SI, Aggression, and fanat on various races, and DS, IS, Rev, both WS, FoK, and PI on personalities. More strategic diversity!

    BL: +15% OME, +15% enemy casualties, +20% own casualties


    =====
    Races
    =====

    Dark Elf

    +20% spell damage
    X% of prisoners are converted to wizards on successful trads (X TBD)
    Dungeons hold 50 prisoners
    80% of enemy casualties are captured as prisoners (usually 66%)
    Prisoners are +4
    80% prisoners return from combat (normally 50%)

    -20% birth rate

    7/12 elite 9nw 900gc
    spellbook: BL, fanat

    Got inspired by the prisoners converting to elites this age. I've been looking for a way to let an attacking race sustain WPA some, and this might be a good way to do it. DE is a prisoner focused A/M race. They can gain a lot of prisoners due to the fact that they capture more prisoners in combat and more return from combat, plus the extra casualties from BL. These prisoners are stronger, giving them the offense they need to compete as an attacking race, and then also the prisoners turn into wizards (Dark Elves enslave the souls of their dead prisoners and use them to power their dark magic), allowing them to sustain WPA somewhat as they hit hard and grow. It loses out on birth rate so it can't abuse the WPA sustain while growing too much for econ. The extra offense and WPA sustain can be somewhat countered by spending stealth on free prisoners against DEs.

    Bocan

    +2 ospec
    +20% sabotage damage
    +30% spec credits
    can use credits for thieves

    -10% income

    8/12 elite 9.5nw 950gc
    Spellbook: fanat, gluttony

    Bocan is my attempt at an A/T focused race. It can attack decently with the +ospec and defensive elite, and it gets extra spec creds which can be used to sustain both its spec-based offense and its TPA. It loses out on income because it's expected to sustain via credits mostly.

    Elf
    +30% WPA
    +30% rune production
    +30% fireball damage
    +2 dspec

    +15% explore costs

    12/7 elite 8.5nw 850gc
    Spellbook: GP, Chastity

    Elf shifts back toward the turtle-y mage, moving casting on mates back over to fae. It specifically excels in econ control with boosted fireball damage and chastity.

    Halfling
    +12% pop
    +30% TPA
    -50% thief cost
    can train elites with credits
    3/3 soldiers

    +10% casualties

    8/8 elite 7nw 350gc
    Spellbook: MA, IA, Aggression

    Halfling is the turtle-y thief race. Switching the houses bonus back to a pop bonus so it doesn't have to build homes to be good. Dropping hospital penalty for casualties penalty so it can explore the A/T spectrum a little bit better. Also making its elite smaller but letting it train elites with credits, giving it some more flexibility in war.

    Human
    +15% income
    +10% sci spawn rate
    +10% books produced

    -20% WPA
    +20% enemy spell damage

    14/6 elite 9.5nw 1050gc
    Spellbook: QF, IA, SI

    Partial revert of human back to a few ages ago when it had income and sci bonuses and tanky offensive elite. Balancing the income bonus with wages (via IA) so EOWCF isn't too OP. WPA and spell damage penalties to sharpen its weakness to good econ control. Human should be a strong attacker that just gets better as the age goes on and lets a kd center its power around econ control and pushing out dragons.

    Orc
    +15% Battle gains
    +10% enemy casualties
    Free draft
    4/2 soldiers

    -20% TPA
    +20% enemy sabotage damage

    15/5 elite 9.5nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: Aggression

    Tuning down orc some from this age since its offense is pretty crazy. Also removing the autofails because those are just lame and shifting its penalties more toward opening it up to heavy thief shelling, which is a good way to deal with it since its extra combat gains give it extra incoming land, making chains less effective. Synergizing the draft bonus more with 4/2 solds and aggression.


    Avian
    -25% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -25% military training time
    -50% land lost on ambushes

    cannot use stables or horses
    -10% battle gains

    14/4 elite 8.5nw 850gc
    Spellbook: TW, fanat, GP

    Avian felt a little weak this age. Helping it out by removing all the casualties penalties (it already burns out quickly with speed and -gains) and giving it a bit more speed back. Avian is an efficient, fast attacker, gets free semi-anon (but still gets honor), and can also fill in its land quickly with the bonus birth rate and training speed, but lacks the raw power of other attackers. TW is added to mitigate getting chained with all the extra peons


    Dwarf
    +25% BE
    -50% construction cost
    -50% raze cost
    +30% building credits

    +75% food needed

    13/8 elite 10nw 1000gc
    Spellbook: MA, GP, TW, IA, CS

    Dwarf also feels lackluster this age. Boosting their sturdiness with MA (instead of RM), CS, and TW, making them very hard to pull down. They lack raw offense, but they make up for it in all-around strength, flexibility and sturdiness. The construction cost and building credit bonuses basically give them -50% build time if they choose to accelerate, but leaves the flexibility of doing so or not.

    Faery
    +25% self spell duration
    cast spells on mates
    +1 mana/tick

    -5% pop

    7/13 elite 10.5nw 1050gc
    Spellbook: MA, AD, QF, IA, TW, BL, MF, Invis

    Faery swapping with elf to be the cast on mates race, grabbing the +1 mana for itself. Rather than getting all racial spells, it just gets some of the really big spells to go along with its self-spell bonus. It still gets the pop penalty to make up for its strong elite, but the elite gets cheaper due to lack of ToG, which moves over to artisan.

    Undead
    -25% casualties
    -25% damage from fireball, MS, and storms
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -15% sci effect

    14/5 elite 9nw 900gc
    Spellbook: AD, Chastity, Vermin

    I still just don't like undead having conversions and all the bonuses and penalties that have to come with it to balance it. Tuning it back to something more simple and straightforward: plague, low casualties, good raw offense, but less scaling due to sci penalty, with a little extra spice of resisting some magic-based control. Undead can hit hard and sustain well, as well as plague hard-to-bring-down opponents, opening them up for a better chain.

    =============
    Personalities
    =============

    Mystic
    +150% guild land effect
    +60% channeling science
    +25% combat spell duration

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, Revelation
    Starts with: 800 wiz

    Giving mystic a little spice with combat spell duration (MS should be considered for a base duration reduction), letting it provide some particularly nasty duration spells beyond just its standard MS bot use.

    Assassin/Rogue
    +75% TD land effect
    +60% crime science
    +1 stealth/tick
    +20% NS damage
    Access to GA, AW, Prop

    Spellbook: Revelation
    Starts with: 800 thieves

    A little adjustment to rogue. Instead of the guilds bonus, it gets a bonus to NS damage. This lets it still be a very strong superthief, but also lets it explore a bit in the A/T direction and be focused more on NS for thief damage when you don't have the TPA to land AW and prop.

    Bandit
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% income and crime sci
    +25% gains on plunders, robs, and kidnaps
    -50% merc cost
    Mercs are +4
    Converts some mercs to thieves on successful trads and plunders
    +25% IR duration
    Access to GA, SWH

    Spellbook: Gluttony, Vermin
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 thieves

    Bandit is my proposal for an A/T personality. Mainly bonuses to stealing stuff and mercs. Steal gc so you can buy cheap mercs and hit hard with those stolen horses and convert the mercs to more thieves for some TPA sustain. Also gets IR bonus for extra econ control ability along with the robbing.

    Heretic
    +75% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    wiz don't die on failed spells
    +35% channeling, crime, and cunning sci
    Access to GA

    Spellbook: ET, NM, FG, Amnesia, Revelation
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

    Heretic feels a little underwhelming this age except in a NM-focused comp. Give it some additional flexibility with ET, stronger amnesia, GA, and TD bonus and sci rather than raw WPA/TPA to give more scaling TPA and thief losses, focusing it more on being a T/M rather than a hybrid.

    Cleric/Paladin
    +50% guild land effect
    -25% casualties
    Immune to plague
    cast support spells on mates
    +25% channeling, shielding, and invocation sci

    Spellbook: AD, DS, IS, ET
    Starts with: 400 solds and creds, 400 wiz

    Cleric is an A/m kind of personality that focuses on being sturdy and supporting mates with AD, DS, IS, and some shielding sci bonus. It can also be a ritual slave with extra invocation sci. Lots of utility and sturdiness without a whole lot of raw power.

    Tactician
    -15% attack time
    +30% siege sci
    +33% gains on ambushes
    Accurate intel

    Spellbook: War Spoils
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

    Giving tact more tactical options with WS, and increasing its siege sci instead of it getting building creds as well as giving it stronger ambushes for both clamping down on chains and boosting its identity of gaining lots of land over time. WS is generally a pretty underused spell, particularly in war where it tends to just be a noob trap, opening a province up to a devastating chain. On tact it could potentially find more traction with lower attack time allowing a tact to judiciously use WS when opponent return times don't give them the opportunity to land a strong chain.

    Engineer/Artisan
    Immune to income penalties
    Immune to blizzard
    +15% econ sciences
    -20% damage from raze, tornadoes, arson, and greater arson

    Spellbook: ToG, Ghost Workers, FoK
    Starts with: +1 scientist, 400 solds and creds

    A bit of a rework of artisan toward all-around power and buildings stability instead of just better econ. Somewhat of a hybrid of old sage and something more buildings-focused.

    Warrior
    +10% OME
    +15% Massacre damage
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: Wrathful Smite, Pitfalls
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds

    Tweaking warrior back to more raw offense focused rather than training time (which I'm giving more to war hero). It gets a lot of raw power and can be a t/m-buster with better CQ ability and massacre bonus, and it will hit hard and be a painful nut to crack with PF and WS. WS also gives it a useful pairing with casting on mates.

    War Hero
    +100% Honor bonuses
    Elites have +1 offense
    Convert specs to elites
    +30% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites

    Adjusting war hero to be more of the "reload" attacker personality. Conversions, bonuses to draft speed and training speed plus PI, let it reload its offense very quickly throughout war, and also give it a very fast start. Focusing the offense bonus on elites rather than a raw OME boost makes conversions a little more attractive for defensive elite races and is a smaller bonus than this age when it's fairly OP for offensive elite races.
    Last edited by AmrasArFeiniel; 04-09-2019 at 23:07.

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