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Thread: Some Race/Pers ideas

  1. #1
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    Some Race/Pers ideas

    General:

    Going for a concept of two major identity-defining unique capabilities for each race plus one major drawback with a little extra balancing bonuses as needed. Personalities are being sharpened around a clear role.

    MF: remove the wpa penalty
    Amnesia: buff slightly, now heretic only
    SI: removed, as I didn't find a home for it that I liked
    DS: returning on cleric, and as a support spell. give them rogues some defensive wpa love!
    Rev: Reduce effect to 15%

    =====
    Races
    =====

    Dark Elf

    Concept: Dark Elf is the classic A/M race. The twist in this conception of them is their ability to sustain WPA while growing. There are a ton of different ways to do this, but the best should ensure that wizards are gained only when land is gained, like this one.

    Capability 1: sustain wpa while growing
    Capability 2: high spell damage
    Drawback: weak defensive specialist

    +20% Spell Damage
    +10% ME
    30% of enemy casualties on TMs are converted to wizards

    -1 dspec

    7/11 elite 8.25 900gc
    Spellbook: BL

    Bocan

    Concept: Bocan, like DE, is a classic hybrid, but focused on TPA sustain via training with credits.

    Capability 1: sustain tpa while growing
    Capability 2: high sabotage damage
    Drawback: lower income (forcing bocan to sustain itself with credits)

    +20% sabotage damage
    Can train thieves with credits
    +30% spec credits
    +2 ospec

    -10% income

    8/12 elite 8.25nw 900gc
    Spellbook: vermin, fanat

    Elf

    Concept: A more defensive magic race that can go hybrid but also pure mage. I've tended to feel tension between self spells and combat spells with fae as the high-wpa race. Elf feels like a more natural fit. And I'm pushing casting on mates back to purely be on cleric, so that disappears from here.

    Capability 1: highest WPA
    Capability 2: strong cheap defense via specs
    Drawback: No dungeons

    +20% WPA
    +20% rune production
    +2 dspec

    Cannot use dungeons

    12/8 elite 7.75nw 875gc
    Spellbook: MF, chastity

    Halfling

    Concept: More defensive thief race, that, like elf, can go hybrid or pure thief. I prefer the raw pop bonus rather than the homes bonus because it's easier to play hybrid making the race more flexible.

    Capability 1: highest TPA
    Capability 2: high population
    Drawback: Weak offensive specialist

    +20% TPA
    +10% Population
    -50% thief losses on failed ops
    -20% Military training costs

    -1 ospec

    11/8 elite 7.5nw 800gc
    Spellbook: MA, invis

    Human

    Concept: Human can occupy a pretty interesting space as the econ powerhouse. Removing the WPA penalty and giving them RM (while removing QF) really lets them flex into a variety of pure attacker, hybrid, and bank roles.

    Capability 1: high science effect
    Capability 2: high income
    Drawback: Increased explore cost (to avoid oversized explore pushes)

    +15% sci effect
    +20% income
    +2 horses

    +25% explore cost (gc)

    7/12 elite 8.5nw 1100gc
    Spellbook: fok, RM

    Orc

    Concept: Orc is the hulk smasher. It was too strong with battle gains on top of its bonkers offense, so removing that but doubling down on its drafting strength gives it some strong muscle, and it still competes very well at the top of the attacker food chain.

    Capability 1: Highest offense
    Capability 2: Can draft strong army very quickly and cheaply
    Drawback: Shredded by ops

    +30% draftees
    -75% draft cost
    4/4 soldiers

    +15% damage from spells and ops

    15/6 elite 8.5nw 925gc
    Spellbook: Aggression, BL

    Avian

    Concept: Speed is avian's thing. And that's one of the reasons I changed tact to gains (more on that in the tact section). This change sharpens that power but pulls back the raw offense quite a bit to compensate. With the nerfs to other attackers, though, it still competes well.

    Capability 1: Fastest military
    Capability 2: Can quickly fill in new land
    Drawback: Weaker military

    -20% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -20% military training time

    cannot use stables or horses
    -10% BE

    14/5 elite 8nw 850gc
    Spellbook: TW, war spoils, fanat

    Dwarf

    Concept: Dwarf is the sturdy buildings-focused race like it's always been. Sharpening the sturdiness more with a direct DME bonus. Also giving it QF from human to let it compete well as an attacker and with a really well-coordinated group, sneak in hits and get home just before opponents do and force them to hit into very high defense.

    Capability 1: Powerful, cheap buildings
    Capability 2: Very sturdy military
    Drawback: vulnerable to starvation

    +25% BE
    -50% construction and raze cost
    +35% building credits
    +10% DME

    +100% food needed
    +100% deaths from starvation

    12/7 elite 7.75nw 875gc
    Spellbook: MA, QF, gluttony

    Faery

    Concept: Fae is its typical self-spell happy self. It loses its raw WPA bonus to elf, but still retains its t/m and hybrid potential by picking up MF and invis through elf and halfer respectively. Its pop bonus is reduced and the general penalty is dropped to compensate for the WPA loss as well, and it retains its ability to compete offensively and in t/m at the level of other hybrid-type races, just with greater flexibility.

    Capability 1: flexible power through self spells
    Capability 2: High defense elite
    Drawback: lower population

    +50% self spell duration
    All racial spells

    -5% population

    7/13 elite 8.5nw 1100gc
    Spellbook: all racial spells + tog

    Undead

    Concept: Undead in its simplest form. I much prefer this over the complex and difficult to balance form it's in right now. Without landing plague, it competes offensively around the level of a hybrid, but if it does land a plague it can out-compete even orc and avian just slightly at bringing down targets. The casualty bonus is the only duplicated bonus with cleric, but it's not so bad I think because using them together is neither overkill on casualty reduction (-36%) nor is it overpowered in any particular way.

    Capability 1: Plague
    Capability 2: strong military sustain via low casualties
    Drawback: reduced science

    -20% casualties
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -15% sci effect

    14/6 elite 8.25nw 900gc
    Spellbook: AD, chastity

    =============
    Personalities
    =============

    Mystic

    Role: Control enemies over time. Picking up blizzard and increased spell duration gives mystic some more interesting uses as compensation for losing rev, which I don't think it really needed.

    +150% guild land effect
    +50% channeling science
    +20% combat spell duration
    +1 mana/tick

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, ET
    Starts with: 800 wiz

    Rogue

    Role: Destroy a province with thievery. Rogue loses SWH but picks up extra NS damage to let it still be a strong hybrid and also be able to do a little extra work when getting ET'd into the dirt and not having a good target for AW/Prop

    +75% TD land effect
    -30% thief cost
    +50% crime science
    +1 stealth/tick
    +20% NS damage
    Access to GA, AW, prop

    Spellbook: ET
    Starts with: 800 thieves

    Heretic

    Role: NM chain enabler OR shell provinces with t/m ops. Swapped the thief losses bonus out for a TD bonus. This is a slight nerf to A/M heretic, which won't be able to get nearly the same losses reduction as it can't run enough TDs, and thus will end up bleeding TPA if it tries to A/T/M, but is a buff to T/M heretic as it does have room for the TDs and can get a nice TPA bonus out of this.

    +75% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% channeling, crime, and cunning sci

    Spellbook: NM, FG, Amnesia, Rev
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

    Bandit

    Role: steal stuff from enemy and use it against them. My attempt at an A/T personality concept. Steal horses, gold, and get prisoners from other ops, use those and buy cheap mercs to attack hard.

    +50% TD effect
    +30% crime sci
    +25% gains on robs and plunders
    Some additional prisoners are captured on NS, kidnap, and free prisoners ops
    Prisoners and mercs are +3
    -75% merc cost
    Access to GA and SWH

    Spellbook: gluttony and vermin
    Starts with: 400 thieves, 400 solds and creds

    Cleric

    Role: Support caster and sturdy attacker. Cleric loses the general-purpose SI to gain some more sharpened sturdiness benefits in the form of divine shield, some raw defensive WPA, and some bonus science specifically in strategy and shielding, plus a bonus to invocation to sharpen its support feel as well. It doesn't really pack any punch, but good luck taking one of these suckers down. They'll stick around and keep on chugging for a while.

    -20% casualties
    Immune to plague
    +20% defensive WPA
    +20% strategy, shielding and invocation sci
    Can cast spells on mates

    Spellbook: GP, AD, DS, IS, wrathful smite
    Starts with: 600 solds and creds, 200 wiz

    Merchant

    Role: Bank. My re-imagining of artisan. Totally focused on econ and sending and receiving aid, with CS to protect those resources somewhat. A great option for getting built up and then tanking up and aiding out to others.

    Immune to income penalties
    +15% Econ sciences
    +20% flat rate building production
    -30% effect on TB for both parties when sending or receiving aid (does not stack with 2 merchants)

    Spellbook: ghost workers, CS
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds

    Tactician

    Role: Deep-chaining attacker-killer. When I was thinking about how to sharpen the attacker personalities around clear roles, it was clear to me that from an offensive perspective, there are really two things attackers do. One is deep chain opponents, typically attackers. The other is to drag down T/Ms. Attack speed didn't really directly fit either of these, it just lets you do whatever you're doing more often, which is really avian's thing. So instead I went for making tactician all about chaining attackers. In place of the speed bonus it gets the gains bonus from orc and some siege sci instead of the credits bonus. While it can't reach quite as high as WH or warrior offense-wise, it does devastating damage when it can complete a chain deep. And with high gains and ambush protection, it's also harder to chain itself!

    +15% battle gains
    +30% siege sci
    -33% land lost on ambushes
    accurate intel

    Spellbook:
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

    Warrior

    Role: Hard-hitting T/M-killer. Warrior goes the other direction, focusing clearly on dragging down high-defense targets. Raw OME and tactics sci bonuses, less painful conquests, and a massacre bonus are all pointed directly at dealing with those pesky t/ms that tank up just out of reach and laugh while they shred you with ops.

    +10% OME
    +20% tactics sci
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    +15% gains on massacres
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: PF
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds

    War Hero

    Role: Fast reloading attacker. While tact and warrior are clearly focused at what you're doing to your enemies, cleric and war hero are more focused on the strength of your own province. Cleric provides this through a great deal of sturdiness. War hero goes the other direction and provides more of a snowball attacker. Science bonuses for improving drafting and training time (plus PI), conversion to elites, and a bonus to elites all provide a quick pipeline from peasant to strong elite that lets war hero reload and snowball forward during a war. +1/+1 elites seems to not be too op at this point necessarily, especially with toning down the honor bonus and dropping dragon immunity (but a bonus to dragon slaying sci!), and it makes the personality much more attractive to races with defensive elites.

    +50% honor bonuses
    Convert specs to elites
    +1/+1 elite
    +30% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites
    Last edited by AmrasArFeiniel; 10-01-2020 at 19:33.

  2. #2
    Member jjt034's Avatar
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    WOW!
    That is some impressive and in-depth work. A little overwhelming at first as there is a lot to digest.
    However, you present some very precise and concise points with a much more narrow focus of the roles and personalities for each of the races and personalities.
    It is suggesting that provinces can be quite unique and equipped with, as Liam Neeson said, "a particular set of skills" to perform certain, specialized tasks during war and have very defined roles within the kingdom.
    ---> I like it!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmrasArFeiniel View Post
    General:

    MF: remove the wpa penalty
    Amnesia: buff slightly, now heretic only
    SI: removed, as I didn't find a home for it that I liked
    DS: returning on cleric, and as a support spell. give them rogues some defensive wpa love!
    Rev: Reduce effect to 15%
    I like a buffed, Heretic-only Amnesia. I do not care for you removing SI – just give it to Cleric, it’s a nice support spell.

    Dark Elf

    +20% Spell Damage
    +10% ME
    30% of enemy casualties on TMs are converted to wizards

    -1 dspec

    7/11 elite 8.25 900gc
    Spellbook: BL
    30% of enemy casualties is A LOT – that’s easily about 2-3 wpa for those incoming acres! It sounds good on paper, but it’s absolutely bonkers once you factor in that people get attacked and lose land (but not wizards) too.

    Also, I’m not really a big fan of the -1 dspec and defensive elite. It’s like yes, I will use the elite already, no need to force my hand like that. In fact, I think this makes into harder for them to keep the land they capture OOW, which is not ideal because they already get so many wizards – unless they pick War Hero.

    +10% ME and bloodlust stack pretty well. Maybe too well? I don’t know.

    Bocan

    +20% sabotage damage
    Can train thieves with credits
    +30% spec credits
    +2 ospec

    -10% income

    8/12 elite 8.25nw 900gc
    Spellbook: vermin, fanat
    This is a very similar race to Dark Elf. A better-than-average ospec to attack, a defensive elite you can’t afford outside of eowcf (with very similar numbers, after BE bonus). Thieves tend to be more population-intensive than wizards, so I don’t get why the A/M race gets more units with each attack while Bocan has to draft from amongst their own. I suppose there’s kidnapping and all that, but that’s still a roundabout way to draft more soldiers.

    Elf

    +20% WPA
    +20% rune production
    +2 dspec

    Cannot use dungeons

    12/8 elite 7.75nw 875gc
    Spellbook: MF, chastity
    A bit boring. I guess it works? I personally wouldn’t play as this if you paid me.

    Halfling

    +20% TPA
    +10% Population
    -50% thief losses on failed ops
    -20% Military training costs

    -1 ospec

    11/8 elite 7.5nw 800gc
    Spellbook: MA, invis
    Mystic Aura on Halfling? Why?

    Also, I really like the extra capacitious homes because it allows for bonkers +pop bonii. +10% is fine, but a bit meh when you also give them an ospec penalty, and a middling, expensive (for Halfling standards) elite.

    Here’s a bonus I would like for Halfling instead: more capacitous capacity buildings. +100% to capacity bonus of houses (so +20 instead of +10), stables (160 horses instead of 80) and dungeons (50 instead of 25). Add in a -1 to horses instead of to ospecs, a cheaper elite, and you got yourself a nice little race capable of raising large armies of middling troops.

    Human

    +15% sci effect
    +20% income
    +2 horses

    +25% explore cost (gc)

    7/12 elite 8.5nw 1100gc
    Spellbook: fok, RM
    Reflect Magic on humans? Hell no.

    The rest is ok.

    Orc

    +30% draftees
    -75% draft cost
    4/4 soldiers

    +15% damage from spells and ops

    15/6 elite 8.5nw 925gc
    Spellbook: Aggression, BL
    Other than the gains, it’s very similar to what we got.

    What we got is… well, meh. The gains really is the best orc bonus, maybe the best bonus period. This is just a race built for night strikes.

    Avian

    -20% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -20% military training time

    cannot use stables or horses
    -10% BE

    14/5 elite 8nw 850gc
    Spellbook: TW, war spoils, fanat
    They’re like what we have now, but worse: less BR, worse elite, less BE. Hard pass.

    Dwarf

    +25% BE
    -50% construction and raze cost
    +35% building credits
    +10% DME

    +100% food needed
    +100% deaths from starvation

    12/7 elite 7.75nw 875gc
    Spellbook: MA, QF, gluttony
    Here’s the thing: if you want a fast attacking race, this dwarf is better than avian. It can (easily!) max out barracks, it gets quick feet, and the elite is just as strong (with horses) and better at defending. And these dwarves are already a strong race, so why the extra bonus?

    Also, the extra starvation deaths make no sense. Starvation is already calculated by your food deficit, so dwarves are already extra vulnerable. This is just making starvation work faster until you reach a food balance – or send you spiraling down if your peasants die, driving BE off… just, like, no. It’s redundant.

    Faery

    +50% self spell duration
    All racial spells

    -5% population

    7/13 elite 8.5nw 1100gc
    Spellbook: all racial spells + tog
    Interesting. This faery would be viable as an attacker.

    Just viable, though. Dark elf is so much better. And Elf should a better mage, so I gotta ask: what’s the point of this Faery? Self-spells are a means to an end, not an end in itself.

    Undead

    -20% casualties
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -15% sci effect

    14/6 elite 8.25nw 900gc
    Spellbook: AD, chastity
    Undead is also about the elite. This undead is so boring, tell me: why would I play this instead of a good race paired with Cleric?

    Mystic

    +150% guild land effect
    +50% channeling science
    +20% combat spell duration
    +1 mana/tick

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, ET
    Starts with: 800 wiz
    Reduce MS duration and I’m sold.

    Rogue

    +75% TD land effect
    -30% thief cost
    +50% crime science
    +1 stealth/tick
    +20% NS damage
    Access to GA, AW, prop

    Spellbook: ET
    Starts with: 800 thieves
    I think Rogue should get all thievery ops, SWH too. It’s the arch-thief. Propaganda would make more sense on Bandit, too, yet it’s here. Why? Because Rogue gets all the thievery ops. The rest is ok.

    Heretic.

    +75% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% channeling, crime, and cunning sci

    Spellbook: NM, FG, Amnesia, Rev
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves
    Good.

    Bandit

    +50% TD effect
    +30% crime sci
    +25% gains on robs and plunders
    Some additional prisoners are captured on NS, kidnap, and free prisoners ops
    Prisoners and mercs are +3
    -75% merc cost
    Access to GA and SWH

    Spellbook: gluttony and vermin
    Starts with: 400 thieves, 400 solds and creds
    Interesting concept. I would make it so that only Free Prisoners gave you prisoners, and I’d give them Propaganda.

    Cleric

    -20% casualties
    Immune to plague
    +20% defensive WPA
    +20% strategy, shielding and invocation sci
    Can cast spells on mates

    Spellbook: GP, AD, DS, IS, wrathful smite
    Starts with: 600 solds and creds, 200 wiz
    This is undead, but better. It’s ok.

    Merchant

    Immune to income penalties
    +15% Econ sciences
    +20% flat rate building production
    -30% effect on TB for both parties when sending or receiving aid (does not stack with 2 merchants)

    Spellbook: ghost workers, CS
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds
    Meh. How many people play as bank?

    Tactician

    +15% battle gains
    +30% siege sci
    -33% land lost on ambushes
    accurate intel

    Spellbook:
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits
    Yeah, that’s what this game needs: more chaining! /s

    This is such an overpowered personality it’s not even funny. I see no reason to ever play another attacker, just slap this on a Dwarf with barracks and game over.

    Warrior

    +10% OME
    +20% tactics sci
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    +15% gains on massacres
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: PF
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds
    Who cares? They’ll get shredded by two or three tactician provs before they can hit a T/M once.

    War Hero

    +50% honor bonuses
    Convert specs to elites
    +1/+1 elite
    +30% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites
    It’s ok. Maybe a bit overpowered, but since Tactician is so absurd, I can’t really tell anymore.
    Last edited by North Southland; 30-01-2020 at 20:24. Reason: can’t get quotes right

  4. #4
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    Alternate idea with fewer new things since it's unlikely they'll all get coded. Not quite sure whether things like elf/halfer are op here, but i wanted to toy with the ideas of moving stealth and mana to races instead of personalities.

    General:

    Amnesia: buff slightly, now heretic only
    DS: returning on cleric, and as a support spell
    Rev: reduce effect to 15%
    Stealth and mana can be used as long as the user won't fall below 0%

    Elf

    +1 mana
    cast spells on mates
    +2 dspec

    Cannot use dungeons

    12/7 elite 7.5nw 875gc
    Spellbook: MA, MF, chastity

    Halfling

    +1 stealth
    +10% Population
    Train thieves with credits

    -1 ospec

    11/7 elite 7.25nw 750gc
    Spellbook: Invis, Vermin

    Human

    +20% sci effect
    +20% income
    +2 ospec

    +25% explore cost (gc)

    8/12 elite 8.25nw 1100gc
    Spellbook: fok, QF

    Orc

    +30% draftees
    -75% draft cost
    4/4 soldiers

    +15% damage from spells and ops

    15/5 elite 8.5nw 925gc
    Spellbook: Aggression, BL

    Avian

    -20% attack time
    +25% birth rate
    -20% military training time

    cannot use stables or horses
    -10% BE

    15/4 elite 8nw 875gc
    Spellbook: TW, war spoils

    Dwarf

    +25% BE
    -50% construction and raze cost
    +35% building credits

    +100% food needed

    13/8 elite 8.5nw 950gc
    Spellbook: gluttony

    Faery

    +50% self spell duration
    All racial spells
    +20% WPA

    -10% population
    -1 general

    7/13 elite 8.5nw 1100gc
    Spellbook: all racial spells + tog + RM

    Undead

    -20% casualties
    no food needed
    spreads and is immune to plague

    -15% sci effect

    14/5 elite 8nw 875gc
    Spellbook: AD, chastity

    =============
    Personalities
    =============

    Mystic

    +150% guild land effect
    +50% channeling science
    +15% spell damage
    +15% combat spell duration

    Spellbook: MS, Blizzard, ET
    Starts with: 800 wiz

    Rogue

    +75% TD land effect
    -30% thief cost
    +50% crime science
    +25% sabotage damage
    Access to GA, AW, prop

    Spellbook: ET
    Starts with: 800 thieves

    Heretic

    +75% guild land effect
    +50% TD land effect
    +25% channeling, crime, and cunning sci

    Spellbook: NM, FG, Amnesia, Rev
    Starts with: 400 wiz, 400 thieves

    Bandit

    +50% TD effect
    +30% crime sci
    +25% gains on robs and plunders
    Some additional prisoners are captured on kidnap and free prisoners ops
    Prisoners and mercs are +3
    -75% merc cost
    Access to GA and SWH

    Spellbook: gluttony and vermin
    Starts with: 400 thieves, 400 solds and creds

    Cleric

    -20% casualties
    Immune to plague
    +30% shielding and invocation sci
    Can cast spells on mates

    Spellbook: GP, DS, IS, Wrathful Smite
    Starts with: 600 solds and creds, 200 wiz

    Artisan

    meh, whatever it was last age, too much work to figure out

    Tactician

    +10% battle gains
    +30% siege sci
    -33% land lost on ambushes
    accurate intel

    Spellbook: CS
    Sarts with: 800 solds and credits

    Warrior

    +10% OME
    +20% tactics sci
    -25% casualties on conquest attacks
    +15% gains on massacres
    improved conquest range

    Spellbook: PF
    Starts with: 800 solds and creds

    War Hero

    +50% honor bonuses
    Convert specs to elites
    +1/+1 elite
    +30% valor and heroism sci

    Spellbook: Hero's inspiration (PI renamed)
    Starts with: 800 elites

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