Anything interesting happening?

[munk]

I followed all numbers in war from the start. After getting **** released after the resets we went from 125k units to 123k. The 123k was partly because of 9.6k new solds on reset provs, so the loss from bishop was around 11.6k roughly (125-123 + 9.6k solds) . Not all intel was updated and some loss would have been due to the few hits that occurred between bishop releasing and me tallying numbers. So an estimate of 10-14k released units sounds about right. The fact that it was mostly def that was released made it a lot worse for us, since we ended up with provinces with stupid high off to def ratio that just got chained later and so their off became kinda useless.

Both kingdoms started conflict with around 120k trained units, so having 11-12k be released was v. significant as it was 10% of our total military while also being down two attackers + their econ. Additionally we were left with the TB from the feeding which meant that 5-8 provs were already in tax, making them expensive to feed.

The main reason we still won the war was due to superior econ control as our 3 mystics managed to FB their entire kingdom and our tpa provinces kidnapped aswell. They had 5x mystics but it seems that they choose to maybe ToG alot (they funded a dragon) and do other spells instead of doing econ control. That combined with continuous riots on them lost them the econ war, and I could follow the amount of trained units gap between the two kingdoms drop continuously as UDs sustained and their units were dying, while we were outtraining them. So in many regards this war was won by alot of correct microing of resources (runes/mana/training). Prior to their WD we had more military units than them and our UDs had converted a sizeable amount of elites which made the advantage even bigger.

[faegan]

I followed all numbers in war from the start. After getting **** released after the resets we went from 125k units to 123k. The 123k was partly because of 9.6k new solds on reset provs, so the loss from bishop was around 11.6k roughly (125-123 + 9.6k solds) . Not all intel was updated and some loss would have been due to the few hits that occurred between bishop releasing and me tallying numbers. So an estimate of 10-14k released units sounds about right. The fact that it was mostly def that was released made it a lot worse for us, since we ended up with provinces with stupid high off to def ratio that just got chained later and so their off became kinda useless.

Both kingdoms started conflict with around 120k trained units, so having 11-12k be released was v. significant as it was 10% of our total military while also being down two attackers + their econ. Additionally we were left with the TB from the feeding which meant that 5-8 provs were already in tax, making them expensive to feed.

The main reason we still won the war was due to superior econ control as our 3 mystics managed to FB their entire kingdom and our tpa provinces kidnapped aswell. They had 5x mystics but it seems that they choose to maybe ToG alot (they funded a dragon) and do other spells instead of doing econ control. That combined with continuous riots on them lost them the econ war, and I could follow the amount of trained units gap between the two kingdoms drop continuously as UDs sustained and their units were dying, while we were outtraining them. So in many regards this war was won by alot of correct microing of resources (runes/mana/training). Prior to their WD we had more military units than them and our UDs had converted a sizeable amount of elites which made the advantage even bigger.

Correct analysis of the errors we made, but there wasn't much we could do about the economy issues due to lack of sufficient TPA. We also didn't expect to run into CR straight OOP, so good job from you lot.

@Cromulent players:
Still baffles me why you'd wait 6-7h OOP for a full wave when there's another 25 province kingdom right there on your island. What was the reason for it? Please leave out replies similar to "we are the best, the rest is nubs" or "we are the Godly army and we will enslave the world".

What was the motivation of OOP+6/7 wave a kingdom with 25 provinces, themed and in pure whoring setup? Seeing you had no information regarding our race (but you could acquire that from snitches), personalities, military and our offensive actions the first few hours OOP due to being on different islands. Wasn't that an enormous gamble on your side? We could have had 1 rtpa and 8k+ defense on our provinces.
Looking forward to your response.

[Bishop]

Then where did the 1000 soldiers go as well? Per the logs and sots I posted above, he lost 1k sols and ~1.2k defspecs. If those disappearing was a bug, can we get them back?

Should we report it as a bug?

i assume the 1024 soldiers went the same way as the other 2k that were aided that tick, nothing to do with me anyway.

[Zauper]

i assume the 1024 soldiers went the same way as the other 2k that were aided that tick, nothing to do with me anyway.

Very well, we will report it as a bug, since they disappeared right before the HC and if you look at our SN, he did not aid them out before the tick.

(i'll respond after some meetings faegan)

[Maximouse]

lol. So 1 moment I am asking for the soldierpool to bounce a hit, then I recieve the soldiers, and the next time I refresh my throne (few seconds later) to check if pyro bounced, the soldiers are gone. No NS, no explosions. Nothing. Just the soldiers that are gone. And that has nothing to do with you? LMAO, who do you think your fooling here. Soldiers dont just go away on their own.

Faegan, I allready explained it to you.

[Godly]

@Cromulent players:
Still baffles me why you'd wait 6-7h OOP for a full wave when there's another 25 province kingdom right there on your island. What was the reason for it? Please leave out replies similar to "we are the best, the rest is nubs" or "we are the Godly army and we will enslave the world".

These are the reasons:
1) We believed you to be 1 of the 3 top kingdoms that we didn't know the loc yet (AMA, BB, Pyro) through process of elimination & general experience of strats that top kds run. Non top kds don't run 20 human/wh + 5 faery mystic. That's a "I'm going to secure tons of CFs and pump and win late wars" setup. Taking out a top kingdom early is good strategy. If it was AMA, it would have essentially guaranteed a crown. So 1/3 chance for an outright crown.

2) We knew you would take it to war.. even with low defense and no tpa. So it was auto win mintime war with ~3k gained + WW bonus. It would have put you guys ~9k and us somewhere around 19-20k. Thats pretty big 48 hrs OOP.

You may argue with the correctness of this, but that is what was running through our heads. I trolled cJ about his biggest mistake, but the true biggest mistake was actually declaring in your position. The correct move was to CF & eat the wave since whoring the 2k lost would only take like 1 wave. Losing an early war is *very* disastrous.

[Bishop]

lol. So 1 moment I am asking for the soldierpool to bounce a hit, then I recieve the soldiers, and the next time I refresh my throne (few seconds later) to check if pyro bounced, the soldiers are gone. No NS, no explosions. Nothing. Just the soldiers that are gone. And that has nothing to do with you? LMAO, who do you think your fooling here. Soldiers dont just go away on their own.

Faegan, I allready explained it to you.

I am not disputing i removed soldiers, i am disputing the amount. Zauper said you got 1024 solds, you actually got close to 3k that tick.

[Zauper]

I am not disputing i removed soldiers, i am disputing the amount. Zauper said you got 1024 solds, you actually got close to 3k that tick.

The other 2k got aided back out, they were being aided back and forth in an attempt to bounce hits. The 1024 aid was at the end of the tick and those soldiers disappeared and were not aided back out:
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to his peg hole would grow.
March 2 of YR0 Theyd won their big fight has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 came a savior for them all has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to The pegboy was known.
March 2 of YR0 The pegboy was known has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to The pegboy was known.
March 2 of YR0 The pegboy was known has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to The sailors were happy.

March 2 of YR0 The sailors were happy has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 there came a big wave has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.

That was the final sending of the soldier pool to him (the 1024 aid I showed earlier). He does not get NS'd, and he does not aid out again until 2 ticks later, when he aids out 300 runes. Yet you see that 9 minutes after the tick, he has 0 soldiers and most of the dspecs are gone. I was not referring to aid going in and back out as part of the aid he received before being released.

If it wasn't you, it was a bug. I PM'd you initially because our soldierpool disappeared, that's what we noticed first.

Faegan:

The reason is quite simple.
1) There was no other 25 prov kd on our island. slot 5 had 24 provs.
2) There were 3 25 prov kds we would see at the same time
3) You guys were running a late-age setup, which begs for an early wave.

CJ -
Frankly, I think folks are most upset you accused Hawk of spying for no reason.

Are you still on his server?

[faegan]

These are the reasons:
1) We believed you to be 1 of the 3 top kingdoms that we didn't know the loc yet (AMA, BB, Pyro) through process of elimination & general experience of strats that top kds run. Non top kds don't run 20 human/wh + 5 faery mystic. That's a "I'm going to secure tons of CFs and pump and win late wars" setup. Taking out a top kingdom early is good strategy. If it was AMA, it would have essentially guaranteed a crown. So 1/3 chance for an outright crown.

2) We knew you would take it to war.. even with low defense and no tpa. So it was auto win mintime war with ~3k gained + WW bonus. It would have put you guys ~9k and us somewhere around 19-20k. Thats pretty big 48 hrs OOP.

You may argue with the correctness of this, but that is what was running through our heads. I trolled cJ about his biggest mistake, but the true biggest mistake was actually declaring in your position. The correct move was to CF & eat the wave since whoring the 2k lost would only take like 1 wave. Losing an early war is *very* disastrous.

Your reason (1) only makes sense if you:
- Get someone from another island to tell you if there's a 25-province kingdom there that looks organized
- Mass mail said kingdom to get personalities

Your reason (2) only makes sense if you:
- Meet all requirements of (1)
- Get intel on provinces to know defense and tpa

Still a pretty large gamble to take for a first wave. Still no reason for not hitting a 24/25 province kingdom on islands 22, 23 or 24 prior to OOP+7h.

I still have this mass-message thing here, sent by a province which was in a kingdom on island 22 and since then reset and moved on to another kingdom. Funny thing is that the location + name in sent messages also change when you reset your province name and/or defect.

[Maximouse]

Faegan, if you dont want to believe our reasons, then why ask about them? We expected 5:21 to be ama, bb or pyro. So we waited 6 hours and waved. Setup suggested whoring since its a weird setup for early age warring unless you try to trick some ghetto. Against a decent KD your setup is terrible early age.
You guys didnt do your homework and secure cf's with nearby threats while running a full whoring build. You got chaught. Only reason you managed to do okay was because bishop helped you guys. Else it would have been a min time war

[topsy's revenge]

the def/tpa was largely guess work. We have hum/wh too so before we knew you were close we had already simmed their "whore" sim. Normally if a kd goes 25 provs that scale super late into the game they will be whoring oop so we just made sims based on the hum/wh whore build. Hum/wh that wants to whore comes out with about 22k off and 4k def on 1 tpa(you guys opted for a little more def on some provs to get to 5k and took from tpa) so we trained to about 8k def, 16k off, and 2 tpa. Right off the bat with this spread you are trading 2 taps for 4 taps and with the tpa differential you can manipulate the taps or econ as you see fit.

Going a whore setup doesn't mean you will excel at whoring. If you really want to whore all age and not just put your age up to luck of the island draw you need to go something that is strong warring early.

edit: I should point out those numbers are before the aiding.

[TheOne]

CJ -
Frankly, I think folks are most upset you accused Hawk of spying for no reason.

Are you still on his server?

With this answer, I would assume that you agree with me that

1) Your guys who posted earlier in the thread over-exaggerated the numbers of troops removed, (with some even saying you lost 1/3 military kingdom wide and others saying 25k+ troops). And that you agree the amount Bishop removed (~11k, excluding this 1k soldiers thingy) is equivalent to amount of aid provided (time value of soldiers/gc not considered, just pure numbers)

2) The usage of using 2 provinces to provide those amount of aid gave you guys a sizeable advantage first few hours of oop (~20% more military on ~9 provinces, excluding time value of solds/gc).

3) There was no reason to bring up the point of Pyro 'saying' they might farm out to Pew end of last age (36hrs before ending of age). Because your guys knew it was trolling (I got some logs), and even still, the precedence was set last age by you guys that words without action do not imply anything.

4) Even before the Hawk AbsNET 'accusation', I am sure you knew your folks were flaming the whole of Pyros and myself at #tactics, pms and all. Blaming us for admin action that is meted upon you guys for abusing game mechanics. It seems pretty much a smearing campaign. Again, I would assume that your reply states that you do not condone such behavior from your members. If you agree with me, I expect a apology in regards to the flaming that some of your members said about my kingdom and myself pre-hawk incident.

--

In regards to accusing Hawk for spying on my private channel, I already mentioned to him I will apologize if I am convinced that he didnt do so. However, with the way things turned out at oop, with the amount of information that you guys knew about Pyros' setup/defense, and with several people telling me in PM that ABSnet may be unsafe, it is not unusual to think that our private channel may not be secured.

The fact of the matter is that it is very difficult to prove such stuff, and part of the basis of my judgement was the fact that flogger mentioned he got spied on last time in AbsNet.

At this moment of time, I will apologize for not bringing up this matter to Hawk personally before posting in this thread.

The leadership of Pyromaniacs has not been convinced that AbsNet server is 100% safe and we will be moving out shortly. We already contacted Stinger about this and we are making arrangements. We will be out soon.

-cJ

[jelloshots]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that "cJ" is actually just a very well seeded markov chain

[Sheister]

omg, I just spit coffee out my nose and onto my laptop.....

freaking jelloshots......

[Ezzerland]

Lastly, I leave all interested readers some food for thought. CR resetted 2 provinces again in war, after being robbed/NSed/chained by us down to 200 acres, before war ended. Now they sit at >600 acres. So they reset for more resources again in war (for more land, more gold, more soldiers?) after explicitly being told resetting in war for more resources was what forced Bishop's hand in actioning them? War is still ongoing right? How can you reset before war is over?

So use the report button. You seem ok at that. But you're wrong about what Bishop reset them for. You see, sending out aid on a freshly created province and THEN resetting is what the problem was. They reset this time without aiding out.

You want to talk interesting? How about the post by Bishop that says "Hey guys, we found a bug, please go abuse it ASAP while we try and fix it" ?

gg.