Proposal to end he Awar

[Sheister]

Sheister, I don't think I brought up Pyro's multi farm war once since the admins caught you and punished you.

No you did not, others did.

I have brought up how Pyro's co-monarch the age before waved Emeriti early last age from below declare range to "FSU" them. Emeriti was not offered any land back and there were no "punishments". That same friend kingdom then farmed Pyro 2.5 dragons worth of gc into their active hostile with Emeriti. Those things were never punished and Emeriti never made forum drama over them.

Yes, CJ did that. If I remember correctly we also said it was kinda dumb for him to do it, but then we also laughed as he did it. I dunno how best to interpret that. The gold issue was done in response to the negotiation dispute last age. When we had discussed it earlier it was with you suggesting it made both situations a wash and me thinking that the negotiation shenanigans were worse than the gold. Again, this is a matter of differing opinions on valuations of damages.

Certainly both of those things were more damaging than bour razing and offering all land plus more back for a cf.

I don't think it is certain.

This isn't any attempt to complain about CJ, as he has not involved himself in this nonsense. Pyro on the other hand has done much worse than Emeriti yet still pretends to have some sort of moral position on this dishonorable play by BB and Pyro and friends.

Again, differences of opinion as to magnitude. I am not certain that Pyro as a whole has claimed a moral position. I think bombdigie has. I think I have claimed more of an equitable position by virtue of my estimation of the relative conduct and the recency of the conduct and the conduct itself. NAmely, if we are to include past age acts, I believe on balance that emeriti has been more unfair to pyro than pyro to emeriti. If we consier only recency (up until the point of the current series of events) I think we can see a recent conspiracy vs no shady conduct to the point of initiation of the emeriti pyro conflict this age. There is not a parity here.

If one agrees that the accumulation of a guestimate of stealing 30M gc from a kingdom friendly kingdom with associated loss of stealth heading into a hostile is worth more than extra time pumping and amassing gold KD wide and having full stealth, mana, etc., then you would tend to think that of the acts last age emeriti was the more aggrieved party.

If you believe the relative values are reversed then pyro was the more aggrieved party.

That was all last age however and as far as I know, *I* am the only person on these boards still raising a stink about that because I just think that was truly truly scummy of Leshrak to do. I tend to hold grudges in this game.

The current action though is not, as a matter across all KD's involved, related to last age, but to the conspiracy that is demonstrable in the logs of this age. The conspiracy is well established in the logs and in the actions of the conspirators. Emeriti is not being punished as a direct actor on BB but as a conspirator. In that sense, the magnitude of the harm done by Bour directly is irrelevant because it is the conspiracy itself that is the "crime."

[Sheister]

Now I wonder if this guy is in pyro?

No, he is not.

[citadela01]

@palem
ofc people consider emeriti remenant of Abs. Its pretty hard not to considering the circumstances, that doesnt mean everything people say or do against them should be atributed to some deep hatred for abs.
Personally I always found abs to be least bad of all alliances in utopia. I did/do dislike them all by default but definitelly never had some agenda with abs in general.

[IrGr8Nublet]

OK the obvious solution to this awar is to have bour raze emeriti for the same amount of acres that he razed BB (must be same size target). He also needs to donate the same amount of acres to emeriti(to similar size targets)
I know its a bum deal for bour but hey lets face it you got shtplayed by a t10 kd atleast your not pyros (I love you guys but BB played you like a fiddle this age)...

BB lets emeriti build up to same acreage and they fight each other on an even ground ( or whatever land ratio/nw ratio they were at before the whole bour incident).
All other parties involved QQ in forums how they dont get a deal like this so they are reminded of what top play politics is all about. (making other kds do their dirty work for them because they made bad cfs)

[AquaSeaFoam]

Yes, CJ did that. If I remember correctly we also said it was kinda dumb for him to do it, but then we also laughed as he did it. I dunno how best to interpret that. The gold issue was done in response to the negotiation dispute last age. When we had discussed it earlier it was with you suggesting it made both situations a wash and me thinking that the negotiation shenanigans were worse than the gold. Again, this is a matter of differing opinions on valuations of damages.

No, I don't think it was a wash that your friend kd FSU'd Emeriti early age and then farmed you gold into active hostile. I did agree it wasn't very nice for Emeriti have not got back to you about finalizing cf extension negotiations and then instead noticed you. I've seen that BB and Pyro leaders are also often hard to reach when they don't want to agree to a cf/extension deal. Leshrak initially did plan to agree to extend, but when he discussed the proposal with his council, they were against the extension. Your friend kingdom's FSU on Emeriti was before any cf extension talks while your gc farming in hostile was after. Your friend FSU Emeriti early age and then farming you gold in hostile is not even close to equal to a cf extension deal not being finalized and giving you notice.

The current action though is not, as a matter across all KD's involved, related to last age, but to the conspiracy that is demonstrable in the logs of this age. The conspiracy is well established in the logs and in the actions of the conspirators. Emeriti is not being punished as a direct actor on BB but as a conspirator. In that sense, the magnitude of the harm done by Bour directly is irrelevant because it is the conspiracy itself that is the "crime."

There was no conspiracy. The #1 province wanted to avoid being farmed by BB. He asked Bb for a cf but they didn't reply after reading his messages. He razed them and then offered to give all land back and extra for a cf. Emeriti advised him that he needed to get a cf before he got farmed and that if they wouldn't cf him he could threaten to raze or raze them while they were weak to force a cf. This is not a conspiracy. If BB would have just cf'd him either initially or after he razed with getting the land and bonus back, they would not have been hurt relative to Emeriti. Since BB refused to cf him and instead trained up to try and farm war him, then Emeriti gained some advantage but this was only due to BB's choice. Due to BB refusing to cf Bour and instead hurting their position, Emeriti offered BB whatever was needed land, gc, cf deal wise to ensure BB was not hurt.

BB refused all offers to fix the situation and instead lied, deal broke, and waved into an active war.

[Crunch]

No, I don't think it was a wash that your friend kd FSU'd Emeriti early age and then farmed you gold into active hostile. I did agree it wasn't very nice for Emeriti have not got back to you about finalizing cf extension negotiations and then instead noticed you. I've seen that BB and Pyro leaders are also often hard to reach when they don't want to agree to a cf/extension deal. Leshrak initially did plan to agree to extend, but when he discussed the proposal with his council, they were against the extension. Your friend kingdom's FSU on Emeriti was before any cf extension talks while your gc farming in hostile was after. Your friend FSU Emeriti early age and then farming you gold in hostile is not even close to equal to a cf extension deal not being finalized and giving you notice.




There was no conspiracy. The #1 province wanted to avoid being farmed by BB. He asked Bb for a cf but they didn't reply after reading his messages. He razed them and then offered to give all land back and extra for a cf. Emeriti advised him that he needed to get a cf before he got farmed and that if they wouldn't cf him he could threaten to raze or raze them while they were weak to force a cf. This is not a conspiracy. If BB would have just cf'd him either initially or after he razed with getting the land and bonus back, they would not have been hurt relative to Emeriti. Since BB refused to cf him and instead trained up to try and farm war him, then Emeriti gained some advantage but this was only due to BB's choice. Due to BB refusing to cf Bour and instead hurting their position, Emeriti offered BB whatever was needed land, gc, cf deal wise to ensure BB was not hurt.

BB refused all offers to fix the situation and instead lied, deal broke, and waved into an active war.

page 37 and you are still at it trying to spin the same web of lies .. get a life

[lampost]

No, he is not.

I'm surprised. Maybe you should recruit him. Would fit in.

[flogger]

They're not lies crunch, you're just not ready to accept the FACTS

[Squee311]

Well you see, Emeriti is being punished for the actions of abs, despite continuously explaining that they are not abs* for the sole reason that most of people in the kd were previously associated with the alliance.

Now if Emeriti has any foresight (and let's be honest, no one knows how to hold a grudge like Abs), they'll be sure to take note of exactly is on the roster of the 5 kingdoms helping BB and when this all this drama goes away and we're left with plain old Utopia, Emeriti has literally zero reason to show mercy to any kingdom that hosts a single player in any of those 6 kingdoms. A kd with 4 old WSK's is going for the honor crown? Time for some dead princes.

Things of that nature are going to provide for some very funny forums, imo.


*I'm aware this is not the attitude of every player involved. It is however the attitude of those you choose to support and apparently that's enough to get punished yourself.

see the logic in these 2 statements cus I do not. You are saying they aren't abs but then state they are. It can't be both.

[Palem]

@palem
ofc people consider emeriti remenant of Abs. Its pretty hard not to considering the circumstances, that doesnt mean everything people say or do against them should be atributed to some deep hatred for abs.

I didn't say that was the case.

I simply suggested that Emeriti is getting a super raw deal (compared to what some other kd would get) because of their past. Everyone decided to act like I was a clueless idiot basing claims off nothing. This whole discussion is currently very biased in one direction because one side is much more vocal than the other. I'm just trying to even things out and maybe contain the anti-abs propaganda a bit.

Even though I do side with Emeriti on the issue I've never wavered from my stance that both kingdoms have done some dirty deeds.

[protector]

I'm not aware of any multies in Emeriti. Are you, or are you just making up more false accusations and lies?

I've also never heard of benM multiing in Rage & Freedom. Where did you hear of this, I guess you know more than me there? I know the freedom cow once tricked rage by lieing and saying he wasn't playing elsewhere to get into Rage as a spy for Freedom and then used that information to help freedom **** play rage. Are you sure that isn't what you're referring to? That was not BenM. If you supposedly knew someone was a multi, why didn't you say so?

Im not the one complaining about a former multi, its someone on your side and I'm just displaying how it's impossible to control your whole kd to always be cheatfree.
/e just funny how everytime someone mentions abs cheating the first thing you do is deny it. Same as earlier this age. I see a pattern!

Question, if I pull up bb logs of flogger saying he wants to quad crown this age and pull up logs fo flogger specifically saying he wants BB to be able to go for a crown and refusing all deals where BB was not able to go for the crown, then will you stop bringing up this bull**** over and over again and admit you've been trying to set people up against us under false claims?

Flogger has no province in BB and didn't even have much input on our setup. I didn't even lead up until your stupid ****play. We had others leading since they wanted to and we had no goals except warring. So again, will you?
Its a bit silly you dodge my question by posting soe irrelevant gossip from flogger.
Its not even possible anyway

This is irrelevant. Why do you need 80% draft to farm a few lone provinces in a weak kingdom? It's obvious that the more time you got, the stronger you got. the only leverage bour had was to catch you early before you had the resources to be able to train to farm him. Even catching you early it is obvious that given time, you'd still be able to farm him. The later he caught you the easier this would be for you. even as it was, you rejected his offers of giving you back all land plus extra for a cf. So as it was, he still didn't catch you early enough. Stop acting stupid, this does not require any advanced understanding of utopia.

Maybe because a 60% drafted 2k prov has no range on a 60% drafted 3k prov...... /facepalm

You're a joke. You lie, you deal break, and you wave into a real war against your allies. You just got the upper hand by having the strongest top alliance from age start to allow you to gb a lone kingdom with no top allies. When you start a deal break and gb with 2 of the top 3 kingdoms in your alliance vs a kd with none, of course you will have a big advantage.

Whateva makes you sleep better.

[AquaSeaFoam]

lol, useless tool asf as always, you showed us how to cheat you as in ABS we learned from you, we just dident try to lie and hide from it, good luck find a post where i ever denied to have cheated, you had your own login sites with ingame chat created for you (Cerb) as in abs while the rest of us was using munk and what ever, even when alpha "hacked" munk there was kingdoms like BOA, PB and so on using it, full abs kingdoms (as the time) infact even user names was linked in there, but then again you never cheated haha.

Who the **** you think helped test the login site Cerb made for you guys.....

Haha dirty lil lier you still are, advise why not just tell the truth maby some people will let the past go.

(not me ofc) you will never be forgiven for your GB ways just becouse you lil b*** of a wife couldent handle Cato the Elder hit her and was a way better player, you had to GB him and his ghetto kingdoim as the big powerfull man you are.

I think you are a joke asf and aperntly so do alot of other people ;)

Good luck repeating your bull*hit over and over, no one will belive you when you cant even admit what you and abs been doing long before any of us even knew how to trade.

Abs never had any login site made by cerb. I have heard playboys did have a login site but none of the rest of Abs used it and it was kept secret from Abs. Playboys were eventually asked to leave Absalom.

As for Cato, he never hit my wife's province so I think you must not know what you're talking about. Monkeys were trying to organize an alliance war against Absalom (and specifically Beauty) since Beauty was #1 with a large lead and Monkeys wanted to FSU for fun. They said all along they had no reason for it other than for fun and to do something different. Some of those they were trying to recruit to gb beauty leaked what Monkeys were doing.

I and Absalom decided not act as an alliance regarding Monkeys intentions and instead Beauty would war Monkeys 1v1 despite Monkeys trying to organize others to gb us for no reason other than "fun". Beauty warred them 1v1 in two back to back wars. When Monkeys surrendered after the second war, they coordinated with Cato to have him hit us the minute Monkeys withdrew. Cato hit my prov, not my wife's. I was #1 prior to his hit and he hit literally within 1 minute of Monkeys surrendering after b2b wars. The hit was coordinated with Monkeys who were admittedly and proven with logs trying to gangbang us. Cato offered no apology or reparations. He got gb'd. This was around age 16ish? Utopia was a lot different back then.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Im not the one complaining about a former multi, its someone on your side and I'm just displaying how it's impossible to control your whole kd to always be cheatfree.
/e just funny how everytime someone mentions abs cheating the first thing you do is deny it. Same as earlier this age. I see a pattern!

I didn't deny anything, I asked wtf you are talking about since I've never heard anything like this before. Jordy was the player that was in Freedom and lied to Rage and tricked them into giving him a spot without knowing he had another province in order to spy on us to help Freedom. I've never heard anything of BenM in Freedom. Either you know something I don't or this is another false accusation and lie by you.

[flogger]

Wasn't there some ben guy behind one of the sonata ages where sanc and sonata were hitting a guy with a farming tractor banner and he was retalling sanc and not sonata and it caused lots of drama? He ended up in abs at one point i thought. Same guy? I remember a BenM and BenQ

[flogger]

Speaking of which, I recall dorje being mad at sonata having friends hitting him and he ended up dealbreaking them at age end over it. I remember cause I was abs and made some of the dealbreaking hits. That's different from this situation how?