MORE move codes please

[Maedhros]

You seem to believe that the bottom kingdoms want to "magically be good". Most players at the bottom want to play with friends, at least smart people. Why not give them the chance to do it without having to waste a year, probably making them lose the interest before they actually get to it. Why do you want to build a game that is only for the ones that aim at the top? Catwalk, you write about how the kingdoms below the top benefit from this system – big news. How about making this game fun instead of benefiting the top and whoever wishes to compete at top level with retarded activity.

[Mourhelm]

You seem to believe that the bottom kingdoms want to "magically be good". Most players at the bottom want to play with friends, at least smart people. Why not give them the chance to do it without having to waste a year, probably making them lose the interest before they actually get to it. Why do you want to build a game that is only for the ones that aim at the top? Catwalk, you write about how the kingdoms below the top benefit from this system – big news. How about making this game fun instead of benefiting the top and whoever wishes to compete at top level with retarded activity.

My love for Utopia came from the experience of playing with an active kingdom that tries to improve. When I first started playing I got into a boring ghetto where people didn't even bother to post anything in the forum. I quit a few weeks later. When I came back to the game, a few years later, I was lucky to random into a mid range kingdom and we built it up to get to top 50 (around age 18).

Building the kingdom and having some success in the game was fun. Success doesn't have to be "getting to the top 50". You can have success by winning a tough war against a kingdom of the same activity level and range (even if you're at the bottom 50). Meeting new friends is fun.

IMO, building a kingdom of your friends will only last for so long. You will start a kingdom as a group and will leave the game as a group. Having a few friends around is enough to prevent people from losing interest while keeping the experience of the game mostly the same.

If you don't want to "magically be good" and don't care about the top you don't need the trades nor the moves. Let the top have their fun and you have your fun.

Before this age you couldn't just play with your friends unless you cheated. Now you can get your friends in your kingdom legally and more easily. You should be happy with that.

Remember that there are people that want to "magically be good" (like my kingdom) and giving them more moves will just hurt the game and the ones that random.

[Maedhros]

What is fun and what you want to do is irrelevant as long as you stay within the rules. Basically Mourhelm argue that since I don’t aim for the top I should be happy with the new system, since the old system didn’t allow me to do this: be happy with what you got. Guess what, we’re all under a new system and what matters is the current balance, unbalance, etc.
This new system is based around the minority of players that spend their life on Utopia. Yes, it should benefit the top somewhat but it’s not right the way it is now. The unbalance is too big. Take your eyes off Utopia, get some perspective. Build a game that is fair, that isn’t only for the top and people will probably find it more enjoyable.

[Lost_Prophet]

It doesn't matter what you do, there will always be a top, a bottom, and a middle. That is the nature of things. That does not mean that the top or the bottom are defined by set things, just that they will always exist. Mourhelm is trying point that out. If want to be in the Top, then you know what to do, if you don't want to be, then that is fine. But no matter what system you implement, there will always be a top, and always be a bottom.

[Mourhelm]

Maedhros - you say you only want to play with friends and not compete with the top. Why do you care about the benefits they get?

In the old system the imbalance was greater. The top knew how to cheat better (by trading and keeping their kingdoms active). Now there is better balance by allowing everyone to trade.

The moves are there only to make it possible for friends to play with each other faster (instead of waiting for a trade) and get the community to grow. They are not meant to completely replace the traditional building process of a kingdom. Building the kingdom is a great deal of the fun in the game.

Once you get your kingdom built you'll use the trades to keep it active and in good shape. This ability adds to the balance of the game since, as I said, only the top managed to use it effectively (and that's why they managed to stay at the top).

[BoBdown]

I have read most things posted on the trade/move system and I have to say I agree with both side of the debate, as most comments have merits when taken into context of their point of view.

I haven't given this following idea a lot of thought, so bare with me if I don't cover all bases or people's wants or pleas

TRADES:

#1
I think the currant system of how you can earn more trades is fine.

#2
The how to do it needs to be simplified (everyone agrees with that)

#3
The amount of trades that a KD has in storage should be able to be carried over from age to age (on WoL) and should be capped at 10 max at any one time so a core of a KD must be maintained to keep it from being a mass building of a super KD for abuse reasons.

Other than that,
I don't see this as a problem for any one KD weather it be a getho or SKD.


MOVES:

#1
Make moves more available base on the number of players within a KD.
(not how good you are)

#2
Cap the moves "allowable" to no more than 22 active players at any given time

#3
Make any move capped so no new player being moved into the KD is 20% bigger than the average player within that KD.
(helps stop abuse)


It seems 90% of players think more moves are better at this stage due to,
The simple way it's done, The success rate of codes handed out so far
and the province arrives in a some what ready state to fight. I tend to agree

#1 helps build KD's by making it easier for friends to join lower tier KD and increase their roster with better players. I believe this would help in the long run for an average KD to grow into a top 100 in time, while also improving their average player due to seeing how better players build and play. This also increases the chances of utopia growing back to a more level playing field on a broad base rather than a stacked top end alliance filled game.

#2 would make it that 90% of any KDs are still open for a random to land in when starting a new province. While there will allways be SKD and trading available, weather it be illegal or legal, A lower tier KD will still have to teach and maintain new players that join, but having a better chance of not being stuck somewhere between a getho and the average 25 player KDs

#3 is all about abuse of the move system!
Moves can be used as a tool for abuse by bullies of power hungry Monarches with big friends. No one (I mean in honorable terms) wants to see a bully move 5 players in that are 3>4 times bigger than any player within a KD to destroy any upraising.




You more exp players know that there will allways be cheats and idiots in the game!
I think what OMAC is doing is great for the game in the long run!
Make it easy to trade/move and play with friends, yet make it so hard to cheat, it's pointless trying to.

Flame away guys ;0)

[Mourhelm]

MOVES:

#1
Make moves more available base on the number of players within a KD.
(not how good you are)

All kingdoms start the age with three moves. You don't get more moves during the age...

#2
Cap the moves "allowable" to no more than 22 active players at any given time

It might be fine, but I think it'll give an advantage to 23+ players kingdoms.

#3
Make any move capped so no new player being moved into the KD is 20% bigger than the average player within that KD.
(helps stop abuse)

When you move your province resets...

It seems 90% of players think more moves are better at this stage due to,
The simple way it's done, The success rate of codes handed out so far
and the province arrives in a some what ready state to fight. I tend to agree

Moves are easier because the technical requirement are simpler. The provinces don't get in a ready to fight state because they reset.

Did you mean the players are more ready to fight because they don't need training?

-------

Given the fact that either I didn't understand your points or you just didn't understand how moves work, I'll refrain from addressing the rest of your post.

You more exp players know that there will allways be cheats and idiots in the game!
I think what OMAC is doing is great for the game in the long run!
Make it easy to trade/move and play with friends, yet make it so hard to cheat, it's pointless trying to.

I think I can agree with that (As long as when you say "Make it easy to trade/move" you talk about the technical aspect).

[Dolgil]

Originally, trades and moves were to help friends play with friends more than anything else. This was aimed at getting the game as a whole to grow. I can not see how trade codes really help in the friend with friend stuff. It's more about not losing accounts, keeping that all important 25 province list.

To bring in a friend to your kd while keeping those you already have means move codes.

OMAC has experimented with these and it is an ongoing experiment. Let's try a few more move codes and see what it does.

[VT2]

Having more moves would mean I'd have a full roster - same with practically everyone else I know.
It's so cool of OMAC, screwing up the start, and making players ditch the game, then finally adding a uselessly useless feature, that only true Utopian masters, such as catty, can make use of for real.

"Hur hur! Your players left! They were bad! You should be happy! Hur hur! Now you have the honor of accepting botted randoms and scripted junk-provinces, that never even activate! Catwalk is good! Hur hur!"

[Catwalk]

I find it amusing how you first complain endlessly about trading options, then complain endlessly that they didn't go far enough. Kindly make up your mind.

[VT2]

I find it amusing that you're one of few people who are against giving us more moves.

What?
They lend too much power to everyone below you, catty?

[Mourhelm]

Originally, trades and moves were to help friends play with friends more than anything else. This was aimed at getting the game as a whole to grow. I can not see how trade codes really help in the friend with friend stuff. It's more about not losing accounts, keeping that all important 25 province list.

Moves are for bringing friends in. Trades are to put a limit on trading (illegal trading had no limits).

Having more moves would mean I'd have a full roster - same with practically everyone else I know.

That's why there's a limit of three moves. OMAC didn't want everyone to have full rosters. They just wanted you to be able to bring a few friends in every age.

It's so cool of OMAC, screwing up the start, and making players ditch the game, then finally adding a uselessly useless feature, that only true Utopian masters, such as catty, can make use of for real.

"Hur hur! Your players left! They were bad! You should be happy! Hur hur! Now you have the honor of accepting botted randoms and scripted junk-provinces, that never even activate! Catwalk is good! Hur hur!"

This comment makes you sound like an incompetent fool that only knows how to whine.

[Snatch]

OMAC need to make trade codes easier to use and stop the loss of provinces to their downright inadequacy.

My kingdom is at the point where rather than trade someone else in, we want to get move codes so that we can get the old guy to defect his province and move another account in his place.

What sort of a joke is it when going through that crap is easier than using one of the almighty trade codes that we have so many of.

So yeah, either give us more move codes or make trade codes work.

[Catwalk]

I agree completely that the system sucks and that it's very tempting to bypass it for that reason. But I'd rather see the system fixed.

VT2, I'm against changing game rules in the middle of the round. I'm also against kingdom creation overnight, I don't think that's healthy for the game. No, I could care less if people below me get more power. It would be great with more competition.

[VT2]

No, catty, you're not against either of those, since you've always cheated when you felt it was a good time to do so, and probably inherited a shell or two from other kingdoms over the ages.

Just give us moves, and you can have all our collective trades, since you love them so much.