Debateing On Gnome/Sage Build... Advice?

[Heywatchthisguy]

I'm debating a gnome/sage build wondering if it would be worth anything. T/a Strat. I'm a little unsure if sage personality is the best choice. My thoughts here are science points (from sage, rate, & thievery operations) would only increase gnomes thief effectiveness and population limit. So here's my build ideas, so far, still needs lots of work though so any advice or comments would be appreciated.

Homes: 10%
Farms: 6%
TGs: 11% < -- 15% Off. effectiveness Increase
Racs: 1.5% <--Just Enough To Drop Attack Time Bellow 12hours During War
Guilds: 7.5%
Towers: 5%
Dens: 20% <-- 48% T. effectiveness Increase
Libraries: 8% <--15% Sci. effectiveness Increase
Schools: 20% <--25% Off Sci. Costs
Stables: 9%
Dungeons: 2%

I don't usually run so few racs. I'm debating the decision to run 1.5%.

29.7 pop / acre (w/ race bonus)
Draft rates: 60% (Min)
PpA: 40% <-- For Max Work Efficiency
OSpA:00%
DSpA:18% (5.0)
EpA: 20% (6.0)
TpA: 18% (5.0)
WpA: 04% (1.5) <-- Might make up this

R-DpA: 49 R-OpA: 30 (w/o horses & prisoners) <--These Numbers are very low for my liking, personally. Planning on compensating with with wage increases, regular spells, and sci.

Population support will be increases overtime with sciences
The majority of the remaining science books will be allocated to Crime&Deceit to a Min 50%.

Still working on it I have a lot of things I'm not quiet happy with.

Oh and also, probably not the best place to put this. But, I'm looking for a kingdom (with few inactives) preferably with a decent rank standing. Send offers in Private Messages.

-HeyWatchThisGuy

[butXD]

sage is terrible 100% of the time; therefore you are terrible 100% of the time if you choose this build. p.s. gnome sucks now.

[mrsyer]

gnome sucks now? you better back that up... and if by 'now' your referring to a 5/4 elite rather than 5/5 and a 30% thievery effectiveness from 40%, then train more def specs and pump a little more thieve science and run 2.5% more td's if you think its that big of a deal.

A race/personality is only as good the player who controls the account

[_greenie]

sage is terrible 100% of the time; therefore you are terrible 100% of the time if you choose this build. p.s. gnome sucks now.

no, sage isnt terrible, it just isnt good
artisan is terrible =)
and gnome isnt THAT bad either =)

[mrsyer]

ya sage isnt terrible either.

[Heywatchthisguy]

Beyond the race/personality, any comments on the build?

-HeyWatchThisGuy

[_greenie]

um, yeah....
you have 5 defspecs/acre and 6 epa, hello free land!!!!
you should have at least 10 epa, at LEAST
your 5 raw tpa will mean squat =)

7.5% guilds gives crappy self spell success
and 1.5% rax will NOT drop attack time under 12 hrs...
20% schools is a complete waste, you are a sage, you get a heap of science anyways, and as a gnome you should be able to grow and sustain active science with little to no problems
the 8% libs is a complete waste, unless you are planning on spending entire age at similar acreage you arent going to get enough sci to make them worth it

[Tyrell]

I'd say drop all libraries and schools, a 5% Thieves' Dens (Your thieves are cheap anyhow, so losses aren't as important, and losing the thievery effectiveness seriously makes no difference)

Homes: 10%
Farms: 6%
TGs: 15%
Racs: 15% <-- 10-15% needed for <12 hour attack times
Guilds: 10%
Towers: 8%
Dens: 15%
Stables: 9%
Dungeons: 2%

The last 10% can go wherever you like, though I'd probably recommend 5~8% forts or more Stables. (Armouries are a possibility, because you're going to drop that TPA down to 4 raw, perhaps even 3 raw, and have a large enough army with enough wages to make them perhaps worth it).

As for science, you should be able to run Sustained or more all age and have more than enough sci.

[Dolgil]

You only need about 6% rax plus QF for 12 hour attack times in war.

[Heywatchthisguy]

Attack Time = BaseAttackTime * PersonalityBonus * BarracksBonus * QuickFeetBonus * AnonymityBogus * Stance * AttackType + FogBogus

Base Attack Time In War (-15%) inter-kingdom 12.6 other-kingdom 12.24

12.24*(1-2%[barracks bounus])=11.9952
12.24*(98%[2% barracks bounus])*(90%[10%Quick Feet Bonus])=10.79568

I ran the numbers for schools and libraries turns out they are just a waste of land thank-you for the advice there. I plan on keeping my thieves dens at
20% it will give me +48% eff. this with 30% race bonus and 50% sci bonus

Didn't run the exact numbers just yet but I'm looking at 10+ mod TpA

I also took the advice for more elites I increased houses to 16% and science bonus to 15% this will give me some 35 units per acre
74% draft rate
raw unit / acre
9 peasants / acre
6 Defense specs / acre
13 elite units / acre
5 thieves / acre
2 wizards / acre

raw OpA 65
max raw DpA 82
min raw DpA 30 (all elites out)

I also increased guilds. And added a few forts.

Thank you all

-HeyWatchThisGuy

[_greenie]

erm....
i dont know what you think the base attack time is, but unless im playing a different game called utopia, its 16 hours...

also, with 9 pez vs 19 military, your econ is going to be relying purely on stealing =)
oh and good luck getting 15% pop sci, unless you stay the same size for ages!

[Heywatchthisguy]

15% pop sci = 530 Ppa should have ran that number first =)

okay new plan 6.2% pop sci = 90 Ppa = 32 pop per acre

I already know my economy is going to suck but with 10+ mod tpa ill just take what I need. Its all the more fun.

as far as attack times go I got the numbers from utopia wiki:

Base Attack Time:
Intra-KD Same Island Other Islands
No relations 12.6 14.4 16
Hostile 12.6 14.4 16
War (-15%) 12.6 12.24 12.24

These could be wrong. I don't know, I haven't played a game since last year.
I can increase them if need be.

Here's a new question I have 16 military pop / acre and 36.5% land to allocate
how many elites and defense specs should I train and how should I allocate the remaining land between forts, barracks, prisons, and stables. (some might be allocated to more racs if needed) There are alot of people saying gnomes should go all leet. If they were still 5/5 maybe, but deeing as they are 5/4 now I would have to disagree.

all forts or barracks gives me 35% military eff increase

Here are the extremes:

16 elites 80 raw opa 64 raw dpa (all TGs 108 mod opa)
16 elites 80 raw opa 64 raw dpa (all forts 86 mod dpa)
16 defense specs 80 raw dpa (108 mod dpa)

From what I see on the other reviews posted everyone seems to have a wide range of different dpa and opa. I'm looking for the most part to bounce the majority of attacking provinces and focus mainly on thieving however I would like to have the option to attack if need be. What are considered good OpA and DpA numbers now?

I don't favor dungeons and stables for three reasons: 1) I will not be attacking much. 2) I find that TGs provide better bonuses to OpA then adding stables and prisons do. 3) TGs bonuses are usually static where as the number of horses constantly changes. Is this the right thinking or am I completely wrong here. With the way people use them I would assume there is something I am missing.

Lots of questions I know but I'm getting a lot more out of this then I thought I would.

[_greenie]

yeah, there appears to be something wrong with those numbers =)
war gives -15%, on-island -10%
16 * .85 * .9 = 12.24
off island is 13.6 =)

i would run 4-5 defspecs/acre, rest elites =)

20% tg's and 16% forts is probably best split

[Ishandra]

Greenie war also removes the off-island distance penalty, putting attack times to ~12.25 as standard in war, according to Utopiawiki at least :p

With a 5% bonus from Rax my DW reaches 11 hour attacks as warrior in war at the minute.

I was on 7.90 hrs with 20% Rax, but have since dropped them right down.