Israel, it's about time!

[WolfDGrey]

What facts did I ignore? I'm sorry if I missed something you wrote, can you please tell me what I forgot to comment?

I will not assume the task to crawl over the whole thread again to quote things you ignored. It's not about my posts... I couldn't care less if you answer or not my posts. It's about those who actually tried to argue on the other side.

Hamas was VOTED into power

Typical western ignorant text.

Communist leaders were usually voted 95+% of the population. Even the dead, the ones who flee the country or the ones who had the guts to stay home on election day were voting.

Saddam Hussein was voted by 90-95% of irakis...

HAH! Barack Obama was voted to president of the USA to rebirth the mith of the american dream after the huge failures of the Bush admins...

You still think that elections are the people's will?

On the first case, the people had nothing to do with the person they voted. They didn't even saw him at least once at TV.
In Iraq elections were staged same as in ex-communist states.
On the USA case the people was told what to vote, helped by the 2+ billion dollar election-manipulation-propaganda-campaign.

Interestingly western states didn't recognised the elections won by Hamas as valid. So... how they were voted?
C'mon dude, come down to mortal land, stop dreaming.

Just as Israeli forces bomb everything they see as a threat, Hamas bombs schools and kindergardens. Fireing 900 rockets in 22 days is a clear intent for kill. Hamas is just too inefficient to do the task properly and inflict same casualities as the jews.

So no, I don't want to defend israelis. I just point out that your speech takes in consideration only one side.

[Nemo]

Well, hell!!!, not even the palestinians support them anymore.

I disagree strongly on that point, Wolf. This attack, these deaths, these indiscriminate bombings will generate hate in the Palestinians. In their hate, rage and thirst for revenge, they'll turn, not to Fatah, whom they now consider spineless, but to Hamas. Things are gonna get a lot worse now.

[stoffi]

I will not assume the task to crawl over the whole thread again to quote things you ignored. It's not about my posts... I couldn't care less if you answer or not my posts. It's about those who actually tried to argue on the other side.



Typical western ignorant text.

Communist leaders were usually voted 95+% of the population. Even the dead, the ones who flee the country or the ones who had the guts to stay home on election day were voting.

Saddam Hussein was voted by 90-95% of irakis...

HAH! Barack Obama was voted to president of the USA to rebirth the mith of the american dream after the huge failures of the Bush admins...

You still think that elections are the people's will?

On the first case, the people had nothing to do with the person they voted. They didn't even saw him at least once at TV.
In Iraq elections were staged same as in ex-communist states.
On the USA case the people was told what to vote, helped by the 2+ billion dollar election-manipulation-propaganda-campaign.

Interestingly western states didn't recognised the elections won by Hamas as valid. So... how they were voted?
C'mon dude, come down to mortal land, stop dreaming.

Just as Israeli forces bomb everything they see as a threat, Hamas bombs schools and kindergardens. Fireing 900 rockets in 22 days is a clear intent for kill. Hamas is just too inefficient to do the task properly and inflict same casualities as the jews.

So no, I don't want to defend israelis. I just point out that your speech takes in consideration only one side.

Well, with 1100 dead on one side and 10 on the other side, it's not very hard to determine who's the bigger wolf. Sure we can condemn Hamas for killing the 3 civilians, but we both see that is not the way to see this situation.


You show very little lack of understanding for what Hamas is. International observers observed the election and concluded it was fair and no cheating occurred. Comparing it with elections in Iraq is completely absurd. The west did however disapprove with the election result....
Hamas has gained support in the population because Fatah have failed. Fatah is corrupt, Hamas is not.
Hamas is also a humanitarian organization, believe it or not, and they have built hundreds of schools, kinder gardens, hospitals, university, etc etc.

You have misunderstood COMPLETELY if you think the palestinians are hostages held by Hamas. You need to do some reading. Most palestinians support Hamas. But just like in every country, there are always someone who voted for someone else and don't like the ruling party. (Yes, I know they took Gaza by force after being boicotted by the west)

And like Nemo said, this massive slaughter has only united the palestinians more, in a hate towards Israel. They all share a common enemy, someone they hate above all, Israel. This might even contribute to uniting the west bank and gaza again, who knows.

And again, this is not to glorify Hamas, but to explain to you why you are utterly wrong, wrong and wrong.

[stoffi]

Notice how Mourhelm and others vanished once the mean truth was brought forward. They can't defend bombing hospitals, UN, and schools so they choose to not comment to not loose face.
Well, you did loose face. There's isn't a single non-christian or non-jew in the world who support Israel's targetting of civilians in Gaza. It's impossible to defend bombing hospitals and other humanitarian targets filled with refugees.

Thx for showing us you lost this debate and that you know you can't win the debate.

[VT2]

I think they got bored of repeating themselves.

[TheMistressOfBaal]

As for free and fair elections, hell, not even the USA has those.

Whoever stated that Saddam Hussein received 90-95% of the recorded vote, you are wrong. He did not receive 90-95%, but 100%. Every single voter eligible to vote on the day of the census voted for him.

That, however, has *NOTHING* to do with Israel's policy of systematic murder of the Palestinians. Any more than it has anything to do with the policies that the USA and allies held towards Iraq that saw the deaths of millions of Iraqi civillians, and then the deaths of hundreds of thousands of troops in an illegal invasion of the country.

[allonons]

But then you got the bombing of hospitals, UN buildings, humanitarian organizations, Schools, market places, universities, etc which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Hamas. Hamas wasn't even close, and even if they were, you DON'T F***NG BOMB SCHOOLS OR HOSPITALS FILLED WITH REFUGEES!



Stoffi these are not refugees you said it yourself these people support Hamas 100% right....again you place the blame on Israel for attacking missle and motar sqauds using these locations to launch attacks on the Israeli civilian population but in the same breath you always fail to mention that fact It's been over a decade that Israel and the United States has tried to respect such locations as schools and religous sites and not target them but that only led to terrorist and insurgencies using these locations for weapons depot and shelter form extermination.


So be it ,those sites are no longer safe for anyone to shelter in ,if the palestinian people want to be safe and feel safe perhaps they will think twice before electing a exstremeist terrorist military faction that uses these sites for thier operations against a U.N recognized state that has the ability and willingness to destroy those sites used by Hamas no matter what the cost.


Israel pulled out to the 67 lines away from Gaza,they have no responsibility to feed,clothe,shelter or open thier borders to anyone period and every time they have tried to loosen restrictions at the border crossings it just means more suicide bombers entering so whats the point....none.


You say this will only and has only made the palestinain people support Hamas more,I doubt it for this reason alone.
I put myself and my family in that situation and I would say to myself why on earth would my elected officials allow idiots to launch missles and motars at a bigger stronger military who has the capability to destroy us all?


And why on earth would my elected officials allow those same idiots to use buildings and locations where me my family and my relatives who want nothing to do with this war are trying to hide from the wars effects.......

Then I would gather my friends and relatives and steal as many weapons and ammo as we could carry and go hunt down those elected officials who allowed this to happen and shoot them dead.


And if the palestinain people choose not to stand up against thier elected officials who put them in harms way ....they are nothing but cattle to be driven by what ever faction has the most guns at the time in the middle east.


Mistress of Baal ,this is middle east affairs, your a women, your opinion does not count thier so zip it.....you are nothing to Islam but a slave for man in thier countries.

[TheMistressOfBaal]

I'm a woman, you're a moron.

Neither fact stops us speaking

[Osiris]

Israeli troops near Gaza, airstrikes continue.

I just hope they give Hamas and the other terrorist a taste of thier own medicine,when the medics and rescue people go to the point of impact I want Israeli missles to follow up just like the extremeist do with thier bombs!

I won't waste time explaining why this is dumb when I can just sum my response to your post up in one word:

Nub.

[Nemo]

allonons

Stoffi these are not refugees you said it yourself these people support Hamas 100% right

perhaps they will think twice before electing a exstremeist terrorist military faction

Thank you for outlining extremist reasonings. "The Jews believe in Israel, let's kill them all", "maybe they'll think twice about coming here and settling".

So much for the ongoing global hue and cry about freedom. They're not free to elect their leaders. If they do, they'll die.

You say this will only and has only made the palestinain people support Hamas more,I doubt it for this reason alone.
I put myself and my family in that situation and I would say to myself why on earth would my elected officials allow idiots to launch missles and motars at a bigger stronger military who has the capability to destroy us all?

Let's see, you father and grandfather have been evicted from their land, your little sister got bombed while she was at school, your father got killed at the mosque, your mother died at the market, your brother in his university, your house is rubble, your neighbours are crying over the dead bodies of their own families, one of them comes over and asks you for help to take his kid to the hospital and while you are almost at the gates, the hospital is bombed and your neighbour's kid dies in your arms.

Oh, you'd be just fine and dandy, huh? You'll just go kill Hamas when they are fighting against the people that have killed generations of your family.

I'm not trying to work up a propaganda. Just pointing out how things might look.

And why on earth would my elected officials allow those same idiots to use buildings and locations where me my family and my relatives who want nothing to do with this war are trying to hide from the wars effects.......

This fight has been going on for a long while. Hamas have started firing rockets and bombs only in the last few years. There are plenty of people with enough grudges and ill-will towards Israel to get Hamas elected again.

TheMistressOfBaal

Mistress of Baal ,this is middle east affairs, your a women, your opinion does not count thier so zip it.....you are nothing to Islam but a slave for man in thier countries.

MistressOfBaal, I really hope you don't take that to heart. There are several Muslim countries with women ministers and I think one or two even have women prime ministers.

Osiris

I won't waste time explaining why this is dumb when I can just sum my response to your post up in one word:

Nub.

I should have done that.

[allonons]

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."


Qur'an 4:11 "Allah directs you in regard of your Children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.... These are settled portions ordained by Allah."



Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."



Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"


Ishaq:584 "Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman."



Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

[VT2]

Does that men females are worth less in the eyes of Allah than males?

[allonons]

Quote:
Originally Posted by allonons
Israeli troops near Gaza, airstrikes continue.

I just hope they give Hamas and the other terrorist a taste of thier own medicine,when the medics and rescue people go to the point of impact I want Israeli missles to follow up just like the extremeist do with thier bombs!

I won't waste time explaining why this is dumb when I can just sum my response to your post up in one word:

Nub.








YA BUT ITS OK FOR HAMAS TO FIRE RANDOM MISSLES INTO CIVILIAN ONCLAVES WHILE MEDICS AND LOCAL OFFICIALS ARE IN THE AREA OF A PREVIOUS LANDED MISSLE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fy ah

[TheMistressOfBaal]

allonons


TheMistressOfBaal


MistressOfBaal, I really hope you don't take that to heart. There are several Muslim countries with women ministers and I think one or two even have women prime ministers.

Oh I wouldn't worry about that, even if Allanons believes that women should have no right to speak, that doesn't affect either me, or reality.

This issue is not a matter of religion in any case. It is a matter of the unjustifiable slaughter of civilians by a state.

[VT2]

Why don't we let them slaughter each other, and turn our attention to more fruitful things, like playing Megaman ZX?