Min TPA for a/t?

[NoseBlood]

Ive been playing a/m for like 10 ages, but going for a/t next age (assuming nothing big changes).

Was thinking DE or human, whats the minimum raw TPA for a/t?

I was thinking 3 raw, but my kd mates says 4+ is a must..

[TitusAN]

I can only tell you minimum mod should be >15

[durantz]

thats probably a bit higher than is needed but it wouldn't hurt :P

I guess you've got to ask yourself what you want to achieve. 3 raw is too low if you want to AW but it is fine for NSing most targets. Also depends what kinda kd you're in... if you do a lot of massacres on specific targets then your tpa doesn't have to be very high at all.

[VT2]

4+ raw.
The mod doesn't matter as much as people think, for several obvious reasons.

[uzziah]

Depends on who you are going after, I'd suggest you start with 4 raw and see how you do if you're struggling with that move it to 5 raw.

I find 4.5 to be about what I need to be successful with my 10% TD and 70% in science.

If you plan to focus more on the thievery side though I'd shoot for 12-15 mod tpa.

[Lestat]

Min 3

[carnage]

4 Raw, 10 with protection

[Soulja]

The mod doesn't matter as much as people think, for several obvious reasons.

what are the obvious reasons?


i do 4 raw when not playing gnome, 4+ when playing gnome

[Toadi]

The mod doesn\'t matter as much as people think, for several obvious reasons.

Yeah, mod TPA does not matter ... A Dwarf with 5 raw TPA is probably better than a Gnome with 4 raw TPA, 20% Thieves Dens and 100% Crime science ... !? Raw TPA is completely irrelevant, because of the massive amount of thievery modifiers and their large impact on efficiency. Thievery is the game aspect with the most modifiers (Gnome bonus, Dwarf penalty, Thieves Dens, Crime, Invisibility). You will also never send out all your Thieves anyway.

Regarding OP, it really depends on the level where you are warring and the age progress. For the very first days of the game where people tend to focus on military first, a mere 3 TPA raw and some Thieves Dens (10% for starters) is a good value. As age progress you will want to increase these values, while maintaining a good balance between Offense and TPA. This age I went as high as 7 TPA raw with 20% Thieves Dens (around 35 TPA after modifiers), but I obviously relied on Housing science and honor bonuses for this, in order to be able to Assassinate Wizards on Dark Elves T/M. 5 TPA and 15+ Thieves Dens is fine.

[Ishandra]

Raw matters OOW in that in order to steal large amounts you need large numbers of thieves to send.

It matters in war because your thieves will last longer with the losses from fails/massacre.

Mod matters as its the actual used number, but your modifications do often drop in war as more buildings are in progress. Sciences can go either way of course.

I'd say 4+ minimum raw, 10+ minimum mod, which is easy with 15%+ TD and 50%+ Sci along with honour bonuses/race.

[Toadi]

Raw matters OOW in that in order to steal large amounts you need large numbers of thieves to send.

Raw is actually almost never relevant in war, because the limiting factor on thievery operations is almost always the amount of ressource your province has. Check the following results, for example, with ops performed on a same size province with around 800K gc (posted in order) on 1500 acres :

Sending 1500 Thieves
Our thieves have returned with 17,056gc.

Sending 10000 Thieves
Our thieves have returned with 16,520gc.

Sending 1000 Thieves
Our thieves have returned with 16,001gc.

If we take the randomness into account, I can assume that I need to send around 1500 thieves to get an optimum return. In order to get optimum returns while sending all my thieves, I would need to find someone with more than 5M gc, which does not happen in real gaming conditions with all the inactive finders. On a given size, achieving optimum by sending more than 2 TPA on Rob the Vaults is very uncommon, and you will usually send 1 TPA. What matters here is the mod TPA, to guarantee good success rate, not the amount of thieves you can dispose.

It matters in war because your thieves will last longer with the losses from fails/massacre.

Well, massacre has an impact on both raw TPA and mod TPA. Nevertheless, considering the fact that massacre casualties are a direct percentage of thieves owned, the best way to minimize massacre damage is to seek the highest possible TPA modifiers. Very high modifiers means lower raw TPA needed, thus less casualties on massacres and thus easier recovery. Relying on a high raw TPA without modifiers is one of the best way to get demolished by massacres.

[mrsyer]

just by awswering the question, minimum tpa for a/t is 4. good luck with anything lower.

[shank]

Raw is actually almost never relevant in war, because the limiting factor on thievery operations is almost always the amount of ressource your province has. Check the following results, for example, with ops performed on a same size province with around 800K gc (posted in order) on 1500 acres :

Sending 1500 Thieves
Our thieves have returned with 17,056gc.

Sending 10000 Thieves
Our thieves have returned with 16,520gc.

Sending 1000 Thieves
Our thieves have returned with 16,001gc.

If we take the randomness into account, I can assume that I need to send around 1500 thieves to get an optimum return.

I fail to see how you arrived at your conclusion. There's nothing "random" about those numbers. Looks like you're riding the max gains pony with your 1K thieves already. Considering the amount... i'd guess around 700 would get you another 15,550.

In order to get optimum returns while sending all my thieves, I would need to find someone with more than 5M gc, which does not happen in real gaming conditions with all the inactive finders.

Oh, and I've found multiple targs this age with >10 mill :)

[uzziah]

Oh, and I've found multiple targs this age with >10 mill :)

You have to be either talking about genesis or fishing awful low in the nw's.

Toadi probably has a province over 6000 acres so for him to look at a 700-1000 acre province for gc is not going to happen, heck it doesn't happen much for me and I play a 2500-3000 acre province. With the gains on thievery being affected by nw ratio once you've cleared the mid range of provinces those inactives at starting acreage with those 10 mil gold stockpiles are just not worth looking at since they are below 50% your nw so your thieves can only take 50% of what they normally could not to mention the increased fails.

Toadi is right about mods if you know how to use mods correctly you can get your tpa at 4 raw to act like 6 raw and it's a lot more effective to have 2 more ospecs or elites per acre than to have 2 more thieves per acre.

[VT2]

Your damage is based on raw number of thieves sent.
Thieves also die as you op, so starting with low raw means you'll lose your ability to damage people fast.