Grace is Disgraced

[Allanon KT]

As a neutral party who was involved in the early events here, and a friend of both kingdoms, I would just like to express my disappointment at the way things progressed here. From reading this, it becomes evident that there was a breakdown in communications, whereby RoslanHajiAmbri did not appear to be aware of the deal struck by Zoktarius, and was doing the traditional push against a kd that he/she (sorry, not sure which as I never found out) felt was running from an agreed hostile, when it is evident from the logs no agreement was made for Grace to hostile, rather the other way around. In the face of such a situation, in addition to the internal problems I am aware Grace is having, I would probably also have cancelled the agreement and attempted to move on. As for this:

<RoslanHajiAmbri> no we will op you until we can't or you can wave us into hostile

Sorry, Zok, you know I have the utmost respect for you, but that's just lame by your 2ic. If I were told that I would have told you to shove it too, and have kept the dragon on

[Magneto]

Wow ....

Grace had 4 vacant spots and could not war & hence went into a fake war just to make hits (wave) into Sf ...

Thats awesome man .... that requires some skill .....

Bravo Grace bravo grace !!! ... i am your biggest fan

[Catwalk]

Not cool to post private logs without permission, SgtSlaughter refrained from doing that.

[IKKA]

Grace always finding excuses and doing lame actions.. Lost my respect last age already.

GL SF you look like a fun kd.

[Bourreau]

"1) Grace was the one that broke CF and wanted to war with us."

As my previous logs showed, both kingdom agreed to war each other and that the CF would be broken a few hour before the 13th to gather intel on each other.

"2) Both KD wanted the war button and was playing a tactical strategy to get the button"

We wanted a war, I made discussion with your monarch, him telling me if I get a couple of hits on you, you would give us hostile and then he asked me to declare asap.


"3) Grace was offered an immediate war by hitting SF into hostile but was rejected by Bourreau."

If I remember correctly, that was after I clearly stated we would not war you. In fact, I'm not even sure to what you are referring to. Post some logs?

"4) Grace was weaken badly during the unfriendly situations that they knew that they will lose if the were to war with SF."

That had nothing to do with the decision.

"5) Grace is only willing to war with KD's which they clearly have advantage over but if the table were turned prior to war then Grace would find any excuses to get out of the war."

When we discussed the war the first time, 48h after your wave when we were OOW, we clearly had the advantage. Yet, we gave you 3 days to grow to our size so that the war could be more even.

"6) Grace told boggers that they were not going to war us thus allowing bogers to wave us but at the same time grace had no intentions to offer CF and to cancel the Dragon. Therefore it put SF in an awkward position, not being able to retal to boggers and yet not in war with Grace. If Grace were genuinely honest with their intention of not warring us, they would have offered CF. Anyone would presume that Grace would wave us the moment we were to retal Boggers."

We told you 20h prior to boggers' wave that we would not war you. It was not even an hostile situation, since we were unfriendly status with you, and you had no relation on us. Again, at the time I went to discuss with you to move on, 20h before boggers' wave, you told me: "<RoslanHajiAmbri> no we will op you until we can't or you can wave us into hostile". That pretty much broke down the communication.

Then, when Boggers waved you, it was you that needed to come to me to try to solve this and negotiate a CF. But you did not, so blame on you.

"7) Grace running into FW with ABS was a cowardly move. No CF were offered and hits were made immediately after declaring war with ABS."

As previously stated, we would not war you and we will certainly not give you free hits after the ****ty diplomacy you have shown.

"All I can say is that Grace is truly a coward kd and would only bully kds that are not prepared to war with them."

Again, when we discussed the war the first time, 48h after your wave when we were OOW, we clearly had the advantage. Yet, we gave you 3 days to grow to our size so that the war could be more even.

And CW, SgtSlaughter tried to spread lies about my kingdom and the current situation. Without any logs, my answer would just be my words against his. With the logs, everyone can make their own mind on what happend.

[Migga]

1.As my previous logs showed, both kingdom agreed to war each other and that the CF would be broken a few hour before the 13th to gather intel on each other.

Does that entitle you to start a dragon before the declared date and sink all your stockpiled gcs into it when it's most convenient for you?(a ce showed grace to be doing lots of plunders prior to the cancelling of the cf).

2. We wanted a war, I made discussion with your monarch, him telling me if I get a couple of hits on you, you would give us hostile and then he asked me to declare asap.

[14:53] <zoktarius> anyway
[14:53] <zoktarius> its hard to say if all my guys will be able to hit and give u hostile
[14:53] <zoktarius> but if we do give u hostile
[14:53] <zoktarius> i hope ull declare as soon as we hit into hostile

I don't see any guarrantees to hostile in this dialogue, notice the important if.

3. If I remember correctly, that was after I clearly stated we would not war you. In fact, I'm not even sure to what you are referring to. Post some logs?

Incompetence, you don't know what he's referring to yet you still try to muck up an answer, just shows how desperate you are to try to turn everything around.

4. That had nothing to do with the decision.

Of course it didn't, you guys were shouting pussys for 3 days straight (guiness mostly), then after 2 days of unfriendly status (in which more than 2-3 of your top provinces starved for up to 12 hours) you claim there's no intention to war us. All of a sudden, internal issues and blah blah came up.

5. When we discussed the war the first time, 48h after your wave when we were OOW, we clearly had the advantage. Yet, we gave you 3 days to grow to our size so that the war could be more even.

There was an agreement for arrangements to be made for war in the future after the previous cf, you're not doing anyone a favour here; you're basically forced to do so if you had any honor at all.

6. We told you 20h prior to boggers' wave that we would not war you. It was not even an hostile situation, since we were unfriendly status with you, and you had no relation on us. Again, at the time I went to discuss with you to move on, 20h before boggers' wave, you told me: "<RoslanHajiAmbri> no we will op you until we can't or you can wave us into hostile". That pretty much broke down the communication.

Right, and your retals just scream "We won't war you". Roslan's communication broke down after? I thought your stance, "We make everyone wait 3 days and now we're f'ed so we're gonna back out and you guys better not try to take advantage of us because we're better than you" pretty much did it for everyone. There was no need to communicate further.

7. As previously stated, we would not war you and we will certainly not give you free hits after the ****ty diplomacy you have shown.

Right, that totally justifies your cowardice. It takes two to make diplomacy work, idiot.

8. Again, when we discussed the war the first time, 48h after your wave when we were OOW, we clearly had the advantage. Yet, we gave you 3 days to grow to our size so that the war could be more even.

yep, and just like how DoA clearly had the size advantage but you guys "warred" them anyways right? :) Seriously, shut up about it. You didn't war us when we waved you; we want conditions to be right when you guys are bigger and fully pumped. It was strictly a matter of following conditions set out previously, you didn't go out of your way to make things comfortable for us.

9. And CW, SgtSlaughter tried to spread lies about my kingdom and the current situation. Without any logs, my answer would just be my words against his. With the logs, everyone can make their own mind on what happend.

You know what, i'm so sick of you that I think your kd is a lie :O, there's not the slightest aspect of grace left in there.

[SgtSlaughter]

And CW, SgtSlaughter tried to spread lies about my kingdom and the current situation. Without any logs, my answer would just be my words against his. With the logs, everyone can make their own mind on what happend.

Did or did you not attempt to force us to hand your kd the hostile when conditions were perfect for your kd?

I dont spread lies, i state facts as they are, if your kd didnt intend to war us , why the hits on us after the Bogers wave? And asking Abs kds for help, i DO NOT believe you when you say that you didnt call Bogers to wave us.

The rules of the game dont change on your whim; if you didnt want to war, do as other kds do(as we did with Bogers) put up a CF , cancel dragon , take a few hits and enjoy the CF.

Who do you think your kidding?

[Bourreau]

"Does that entitle you to start a dragon before the declared date and sink all your stockpiled gcs into it when it's most convenient for you?(a ce showed grace to be doing lots of plunders prior to the cancelling of the cf)."

There was no discussion about weither or not we could start a dragon. So we were free to start a dragon at anytime we wish. Your point is?

"Incompetence, you don't know what he's referring to yet you still try to muck up an answer, just shows how desperate you are to try to turn everything around."

I'm pretty sure what he is refferring to, after I told him we were not going to war you, he asked us to wave you into hostile and then you would declare. But maybe I've missed something, maybe he can point it out.

"Of course it didn't, you guys were shouting pussys for 3 days straight (guiness mostly), then after 2 days of unfriendly status (in which more than 2-3 of your top provinces starved for up to 12 hours) you claim there's no intention to war us. All of a sudden, internal issues and blah blah came up."

Do you have any clue why we took the decision? No you dont, because you are not me. Do you see guiness in grace anymore? No because he is one of the players I kicked out, that was threatening to delete his province. By the way, good job starving empty accounts. :)

"There was an agreement for arrangements to be made for war in the future after the previous cf, you're not doing anyone a favour here; you're basically forced to do so if you had any honor at all."

We could have broken CF and just hit you until you either were 25k acres, or until you declared. But we chose to give you the time to grow and have a war on even size, instead of using our size advantage at that time. That was said in answer to

"All I can say is that Grace is truly a coward kd and would only bully kds that are not prepared to war with them."

"5) Grace is only willing to war with KD's which they clearly have advantage over but if the table were turned prior to war then Grace would find any excuses to get out of the war."

"Right, and your retals just scream "We won't war you". Roslan's communication broke down after? I thought your stance, "We make everyone wait 3 days and now we're f'ed so we're gonna back out and you guys better not try to take advantage of us because we're better than you" pretty much did it for everyone. There was no need to communicate further."

I've asked Roslan to moved on, he told me he didnt care. No point to continue to talk to him or anyone from his kingdom.

"Right, that totally justifies your cowardice. It takes two to make diplomacy work, idiot."

Again, I've asked Roslan to moved on, he told me he didnt care. No point to continue to talk to him or anyone from your kingdom. I had made our intention clear in the last discussion and I had nothing to add. In all the time the situation lasted, noone from your kingdom never actually contacted me, it was always me initiating the contact.

"You didn't war us when we waved you; we want conditions to be right when you guys are bigger and fully pumped."

My kingdom was oow for 24h when you waved us. Is that what we usually refers to vultures? Thanks for pointing it out.


SgtSlaugther
"Did or did you not attempt to force us to hand your kd the hostile when conditions were perfect for your kd?"

No, I was trying to make the war happen. Go see the logs of my first discussions with Zok, they will see we were both pretty friendly and trying to find a solution.

"I dont spread lies, i state facts as they are, if your kd didnt intend to war us , why the hits on us after the Bogers wave? And asking Abs kds for help, i DO NOT believe you when you say that you didnt call Bogers to wave us."

12h After boggers' wave, you decided to launch a wave of like 20 trad march on us. We retalled your hits, we wont feed you anything free. Prior to that, we didnt hit you since the time I've told you we would not war you, 32h before your wave. Also, if you think Grace and Boggers are friendly, go read a bit the forum or go ask for the logs of public channels during the war, you will see it is totally ridiculous. Plus, I've paste the logs of my discussion with Jan, monarch of Boggers, if you do not believe it, its not my problem.

"The rules of the game dont change on your whim; if you didnt want to war, do as other kds do(as we did with Bogers) put up a CF , cancel dragon , take a few hits and enjoy the CF."

When I came to discuss about this, I've got told to:
"<RoslanHajiAmbri> no we will op you until we can't or you can wave us into hostile"

So now I would offer CF and cancel dragon with your kingdom saying that? Of course that makes sense.

[Magneto]

Wow "Grace" ... is actually looking like "Gray-A$$" ... a certified loco leadership with no spine :S ..

i just hope u guys prove this point and declare war before end of age on SF .... please do it

[Jube]

Magneto, just so you know it was an epic 15 minute war.

[Swirvin' Birds]

Just cracks me up that this is what it takes for you all to 'have a friendly war'... kinda sad really.

[Shockwave]

who cares, grace sucks

[Pike]

Seems like you need to do better deals when wanting to war, however this seems like SF needs to get their leadership sorted, as the first guy clearly made a deal that for some reason didnt stick.

/me humps Megas

/me humps Eve

/me humps Sky12

/me humps boogers ;)

[Catwalk]

I suppose posting logs can be justified. I still think you should have presented your version first for clarification, then maybe logs if they rejected it.

Wars deals are a pretty bad idea overall. Just go all out hostile and bonker each other's brains, see if someone declares.

[siegrist]

I side with Grace in this discussion... I don't blame RoslanHajiAmbri so much, since he wasn't given any info, either by his monarch or by Grace. SF monarch seems to be a retard that doesn't know how to deal with anything, or pass info to his 2ic. No wonder there was a mutiny.