Wronged and outgunned

[Ethan]

So, both a strat and etiquette question: What do you do when a T50 kingdom razes one of your kingdom-mates 42 times? (And your kingdom is only in the 2 mill range) Not spontaneously, obviously - it seems our prov had the terrible flaw of actually being better that their smallest prov, and being ahead in acre count on the retals. Though they made the first hit... and had two small guys against our one (I at least didn't see this starting up, and wouldn't have stuck my neck into it before now even if I did...), they were still down on land until they started razing with the big guys.

Clearly, our guy was dumb to keep pressing the issue when we couldn't back him up. But you also have to sympathize with people tired of being told "you can't hit them, their kingdom is bigger than us". Your skill should matter as well as your kingdoms - kingdom size shouldn't be a total shield. I am not aware of any messages, though I can't rule them out. (I'd have thought he'd have mentioned them when he posted...)

Also, once they start throwing razes, it's a matter of principle. Either you wimp out, or you fight, all guns blazing. I, and clearly my kingdom-mate too, are the latter. But how do your fight when you are outgunned almost 4-1?

I am not a member of any alliance, nor are most of the kingdom, however we had previous association with one. (Actually, a slightly disreputable one at that, but I don't follow that carefully so I could be mistaken on their rep.) We've had 3 wars, and I think had a sufficiently clean fight to earn our opponents respect... but their the same size we are, and I can't imagine they'd want to be involved.

So who sticks up for the little guy? Or can we just stick up for ourselves? Can someone our size actually kill their king? (We'd target the king, obviously, since this is clearly a full kingdom behavior on their part... and we can't hope to kill them all.) Do we war, and ask for outside help? Do we avoid war, and ask for help? Or is so hopeless our only choice is to just take it, no matter how rotten? Should I be posting their identity here? (I can beat the filter/mods just fine, for anyone that knows how to look.) And do I need the kingdom behind me, or should I just start the war without our leadership having responded yet?

All views and advice welcome - excluding only posts containing *only* comments about how dumb it is to be here to start with, without anything constructive.

[Realest]

just keep retalling

[_greenie]

interesting... i wonder which kd you are having issues with...

assuming he's big enough, those 42 razes should be easily nulified by a single trad =)

90% of the time it's wasteful for the bigger kd to be retalling after the smaller kd has hit back a second time =P

[UnknownGhost]

Your kingdommate should have just claimed his acres elsewhere. Although most top 50 kingdoms wouldn't hit your ghetto again after your kingdommate did that retal, there are some that will raze that province until that province can no longer retal. It's the nature of the beast.

[Lead Pipe]

it seems our prov had the terrible flaw of actually being better that their smallest prov, and being ahead in acre count on the retals.

Your skill should matter as well as your kingdoms - kingdom size shouldn't be a total shield.

Don't assume that just because your provinces are smaller they are more skilled at the game than your opponent. Often times it's the other way around.

Involving other kingdoms in a 1 on 1 conflict usually will bring more trouble, I'd advise against that.

Generally speaking, in a retal-war, the game mechanics favor the smaller kingdom but if you declare the mechanics favor the bigger kingdom. Try to stay out of a real war with them.

Diplomacy Diplomacy Diplomacy -- The big kingdom gains nothing by razing. Talk to them to find an acceptable solution for both kingdoms. That means you'll need to also communicate with your own kdmates so you don't piss them off.

[Dolgil]

There is another option. Aid the razed province and make it take a long time for the other kd to raze him down. Another option is to raze a smaller province in the big kd, that is, if you all want to be razed down. But, at least you make your point on how stupid it is.

[trekdrop]

Basically Ethan your kd mate is on the winning hand even if he is being razed

because that top 50 kd is wasting valuable time and resources to take him out.

you could try getting all their intel while keeping greeds, riots and showers on them wearing them down and try to trade it to an enemy kd altho don't start spamming monarchs with that shiz because it will make you look nub.

most likely half of your kd will be razed but whoever stays to fight will be a true player and your kd will form a core of dedicated fighters.

maybe one day you can even be mentioned alongside the William Wallace of Utopia, VT2

[raiman]

If you wanted to have fun with it. Have the one province keep trad. marching that one prov. while aiding him solds and cash in order to explore more land. I would like to see how that would turn out.

The big bullies dont play very fair though. I think the oow hits into smaller KDs should be nf'd even more so than they are. Thus promoting ppl to pick on ppl more their own size.

[trekdrop]

Not really

If there is no bottomfeeding it means there is no actual way of getting acres once explore pool dries out. Once all the equal good kingdoms start duking it out they will both just end up razing eachothers acres (since raze is commonly used in wars to disable opponent).

It would keep the big bullies smaller; which means that they will also visit you even more frequent.

[raiman]

Yes trekdrop I agree.
But they would do so at a more reasonable size.
Give the "smaller" kingdom a fighting chance in retaliation.
Thus promoting greater competitiveness.

In utopia I see no problems with ppl picking on ppl their own size.
Thats kinda thepoint of the game.
Picking on much smaller kingdoms is just wimpy.

[Lead Pipe]

rainman, if provinces from big kingdoms gained nothing by hitting on the big provs in small kingdoms, the people from small kingdoms would be in here complaining about some solo explorer overtaking the ghetto and making them too big to war anyone. solo explorers used to be the biggest complaint on the swirve boards. The game mechanics now stop that. Only way a solo can survive is through diplomacy, and thats not guaranteed.