Exploit Announcment - 9/4/10 - Discussion Thread

[Sweetiepie]

Edit: * at least 12 inches

Yes,of course I believe you......
..... all you men say the same thing.....

[raiman]

I looked in the guide and I cant find the " official " multiplier. :(

[Allanon KT]

Apologies if my comment was taken seriously. I did not mean it as an attack of thundergore's professionalism, simply as a joke about why he's given amnesty for past offenders

[Elb]

Its a thankless job, in what is sadly appearing to be a dying game. But we are all still here and you are trying, and to me and a lot of others I know who avoid the forums, that means a lot and is appreciated.

So:

Thundergore and Bishop - "Thankyou"

[raviy]

Could you maybe write up a definitive list of what exactly constitutes bug abuse?
I mean, instant vm and ambush stoppers are clearly bug abuse.
What about sending mail for personality checks, using extra prisoners that double up when armies return, using the horribly broken amnesia op, casting the seemingly buggy magic shield, calculating defense with 100% accurate soms?
I'm sure there are more.
Anyway, my point is that we still have not been given a definitive list of what constitutes bug abuse. Could we get some clarification so we know what to report please?

[Hallo]

funny

I don't expect anyone to post a list of bugs with the mandate "exploit these and you're banned".
I don't expect anyone to give you a concise definition of "bug abuse".


The only reason people EVER ask for either is because they're exploiting and they want to know if they'll be banned for it.
It's called having a guilty conscience

Why would someone who wasn't cheating start asking if what they were doing was considered cheating... unless they expected it to be such? Theres a level of insecurity amoungst new players, but hardly to the extent that is often demonstrated in these threads.


And giving a concise definition only allows people to establish a defense FOR cheating. "Everyone knows about said exploit so it's not an exploit!". (with a definition that specifies "unique knowledge").

Lets say that there was a law saying that province names had to have 2 different characters in their names... well, how many characters look like another character? What if said province name was max length and said characters very well hidden? How can you actually specify the qualifications of illegal province names when said qualifications only allow people to create names that "should be" illegal, but are not by the statutes?

[raviy]

What about sending mail for personality checks, using extra prisoners that double up when armies return, using the horribly broken amnesia op, casting the seemingly buggy magic shield, calculating defense with 100% accurate soms?

Surely you can see how these examples are gray areas?

-edit-
Oh I thought of more: Bouncing to get rid of animate dead before you hit. Stealing horses so you have more horses than you can hold. Declaring on KDs outside range when you have the button. Sending a dragon outside your range. Casting the buggy explosions. Entering fake wars. Casting the buggy clear sight.

Also Hallo, you speak with a large number of definitives. You should really stop doing that, especially in regards to things that simply cannot be definitively stated due to the mere impossibility of having that kind of knowledge. It's diminishing your credibility.

[Bishop]

Any abuse of a faulty mechanic for a purpose other than it is intended - specifically one that gives an advantage to a player. It is not like this game is new and no-one knows how its supposed to work, if you aren't sure just ask someone.

you will not get a list of bug exploits for several reasons - people will use them, people will avoid them and use a bug we missed and then claim immunity, people might get ideas on other bugs to abuse from them etc etc etc

[raviy]

Damnit Bishop, you missed my point. Are we supposed to not use ops because they're buggy? How about bugs that have existed since before the new code? Can you at least deal with my list of examples and say "We reserve discretion to deem any action unintended by the game an abuse of game mechanics that would result in deletion/punishment." Don't you think it's worth dealing with these issues? Because I'm damn sure the SoMs were never supposed to be 100% accurate, and so, using them to provide 100% accurate intel is a bug abuse.

[Bishop]

you dont have a choice, you have to use SoMs - sending 1 sold x3 to bounce is obviously bug abuse. Id imagine using ops is fine - for example i have no word from the devs that clear sight is broken

[Landro]

Stealing horses beyond what your stables can hold is not a bug abuse. It uses up stealth that could have been used for other ops and if you don't have a strict army-in, army-out you'll lose the extra horses. So it takes a lot of extra effort and as far as I can see it doesn't give an unfair advantage as horses aren't replaced by stables beyond what they can hold.

The 100% accurate SoMs bug works for everybody and you just can't get around to using SoMs so it doesn't give you an unfair advantage over others.

The prisoner bug has been fixed now, but before it was fixed it was cumbersome to have to dertermine how much prisoners you were supposed to have and only use what you were supposed to have.

Artificial bounces with only 1 soldier are obviously meant to bend the rules and shouldn't be used by honourable players.

Abuse of VM and sitting is a very severe abuse and should be a bannable offense. It gives a very strong advange to players abusing it and has a very heavy and disrupting impact on wars.

That's just 5 examples and how I feel about their impact. I think most people will agree with this.

[WolfDGrey]

The only reason people EVER ask for either is because they're exploiting and they want to know if they'll be banned for it.
It's called having a guilty conscience

You mean that, if I know the laws regarding work, vacations and payments, I have a guilty conscience and my boss should fire me based on that? You're again idiot.

I want to know what the bugs are to avoid using them, because I might have to war two faced morons like you, who might report me for unknowingly doing something wrong. Thus I try not to do something wrong. I can't do that without knowing (at least) the general direction.

You're abusing a bug (the fact that we're not told what is wrong or not, wich is a bug in the guide) by trying to use retarded propaganda and idiotic philosophy to determine the rest of us to make mistakes, presumably with the purpose to report us.

[aposai]

From what i read most of the spells are bugged huh? So casting them makes us bug exploiters, Damn just the wrong age to play A/T/M i guess :) good thing that it ends soon.