The Left's Collapse

[Rockie Cantais]

Don't really feel like getting into it, so i'll just say 3 things:
1. Communism is not about a big state. The ultimate goal is to have no state at all.

If you are talking about the original concept you may be right but that thing that is Communism today is not.

2. Rockie, you need to learn the difference between scientific theory and theory as in the every day use of the word. There really is no comparison between Creationism and Evolution, and to say they should be considered on the same level is ridiculous. Evolution is a scientific theory that has been tested and expanded upon for a long time now. Creationism is just BS fundamentalist Christians made up from nothing to support their twisted agendas, and no one with any knowledge of science would ever call it a scientific theory.

I disagree, I find that you can have both and what a radical idea it is. ;) I see you are prejudice against those of faith, yes? Its OK, we are all prejudice about something.

3. It's funny that you should mention the EU and debts, when your own country has such huge debts to China that you will never be able to repay them. Also, the EU is not a single country, and cannot be directly compared to the US. Several countries in the EU have handled the global crisis a lot better than the US, just like some have made a complete mess too. Interestingly, the countries who are doing really well are the least religious ones.

Really name which countries, China? With over a billion people I wonder how over half of them feel about that? You know the serfs of China. Its the Liberal-Progressive who made a mess of America. EU handling the crises, huh? Then the USA need to pull out of NATO and bring our military home, yes? Let the EU stop getting a free defense ride from America.

[Hanoumatoi]

You can have faith and also believe in the scientific method, but you cannot analyze Creationism or intelligent design productively from a scientific point of view, because it is not a scientific theory.

[Rockie Cantais]

You can have faith and also believe in the scientific method, but you cannot analyze Creationism or intelligent design productively from a scientific point of view, because it is not a scientific theory.

Why? Because no one has put a theory forth? I agree there is no evidence of it and it is still in the realm of faith. Evolution is still just a theory but it does have data and facts backing it up. Then again all ideas start out as just that a faith that something is right.

[Hanoumatoi]

Why? Because no one has put a theory forth? I agree there is no evidence of it and it is still in the realm of faith. Evolution is still just a theory but it does have data and facts backing it up. Then again all ideas start out as just that a faith that something is right.

It is not a scientific theory because it makes no testable claims, and thus cannot be demonstrated to be false. Until it makes an actual prediction which could be right or wrong, it's not a scientific theory.

[Rockie Cantais]

It is not a scientific theory because it makes no testable claims, and thus cannot be demonstrated to be false. Until it makes an actual prediction which could be right or wrong, it's not a scientific theory.

Until someone makes a discovery that can support the said theory.

The thing about religion is that you will end up going around in circles all day long. Even if we are only talking about the morals of the life styles that each put forth.

[Hanoumatoi]

Until someone makes a discovery that can support the said theory.

The thing about religion is that you will end up going around in circles all day long. Even if we are only talking about the morals of the life styles that each put forth.

No, there can be no discovery that supports creationism until it makes a prediction.

[Magn]

Why? Because no one has put a theory forth? I agree there is no evidence of it and it is still in the realm of faith. Evolution is still just a theory but it does have data and facts backing it up. Then again all ideas start out as just that a faith that something is right.

Wrong.

Christian religion makes an educated guess based on what was known 2000 years ago and then holds it as truth based on faith.

Science makes an educated guess based on what is known now and then proceeds to try question that guess with experiments, only holding the guess to be truth or plausible if the experiment can demonstrate it (the degree of confidence in the guess being directly dependent on the quality and reach of the experiments supporting the guess).

It is a testament to scientific intellectual rigor that they call guesses that have been supported by countless experiments theories.

Older religions in their base scripture format can hold up against science if you were raised in them (and thus heavily biased toward them), but if you raise children with an open mind and they have the wits to comprehend what science is saying, most will choose science over religion when the 2 are at odds, accepting religion only up to the extent where it fills the blanks for what science cannot explain.

I am pretty smart and I was raised in the Christian religion, but I was also raised with an open mind and exposed to science.

When the doctrines of the Christian religion come at odd with accepted scientific theory or rational behavior, I have to discard it as mythology.

What is left of the Christian doctrine once it has gone through that filter is too small for me to consider myself Christian.

[Rockie Cantais]

Wrong.

Christian religion makes an educated guess based on what was known 2000 years ago and then holds it as truth based on faith.

Science makes an educated guess based on what is known now and then proceeds to try question that guess with experiments, only holding the guess to be truth or plausible if the experiment can demonstrate it (the degree of confidence in the guess being directly dependent on the quality and reach of the experiments supporting the guess).

It is a testament to scientific intellectual rigor that they call guesses that have been supported by countless experiments theories.

Older religions in their base scripture format can hold up against science if you were raised in them (and thus heavily biased toward them), but if you raise children with an open mind and they have the wits to comprehend what science is saying, most will choose science over religion when the 2 are at odds, accepting religion only up to the extent where it fills the blanks for what science cannot explain.

I am pretty smart and I was raised in the Christian religion, but I was also raised with an open mind and exposed to science.

When the doctrines of the Christian religion come at odd with accepted scientific theory or rational behavior, I have to discard it as mythology.

What is left of the Christian doctrine once it has gone through that filter is too small for me to consider myself Christian.

I understand what your saying and sorry to hear that. Your choice and thats fine by me I'm not here to convert anyone. Matter of fact It was not my intention to spend so much time on this little side track. Guess I just turn out the opposite way when exposed to science and being open minded; it only reinforce my faith. Funny, we both would be burned at the stake 400-500 years ago for hearsay!

[Rockie Cantais]

No, there can be no discovery that supports creationism until it makes a prediction.

What? Should I make one? The earth will burn! I am right am I not?

[Cyclops DB]

What? Should I make one? The earth will burn! I am right am I not?

That prediction isn't based on anything specific in intelligent design. Further, it's not a testable hypothesis.

Until ID makes comes up with a testable hypothesis (which follows directly from intelligent design), then it's not a theory in a scientific sense. And until then, it should NOT be taught along side, or as an alternative to actual science (not in a public school system, anyway) because some of us don't want to be force-fed a belief system under the guise of a scientific theory.

[Pestermenot]

I personally feel that my child goes to school for evolution teachings and church for ID teachings.

[Hooah]

I personally feel that my child goes to school for evolution teachings and church for ID teachings.

+1.

[Rockie Cantais]

Banging head against a brick wall here!

That’s OK then, where one door is closed another way in will be found.

Where did the matter come from to create the Universe?

[Cyclops DB]

Banging head against a brick wall here!

That’s OK then, where one door is closed another way in will be found.

Where did the matter come from to create the Universe?

I'm pretty sure we all see where this line of questioning is going. Most of us have probably been down this road before. You're trying to lead the topic into a "if it came from there, then where did THAT come from? Then where did THAT come from?" circle until people concede "well gee, I guess someone must have created it." That's not going to happen.

If the theory of the big bang is correct, it came from a singularity which suddenly "exploded", eventually giving rise to everything we see today.

Now here is where you say, "But where did the singularity come from?" and imply that it must have been created by someone (God).

And that's where I ask, "Then where did the Creator come from?" and you respond with the claim that a creator exists eternally, 'outside' of time. The creator is beyond the laws of the Universe. How convenient. But if a creator is allowed to simply 'exist' with no explanation of it's origin, then why isn't the singularity? It certainly seems more plausible that a random conglomeration of matter/energy simply exist, than it does that a highly complicated, infinitely powerful being does. Let me ask you this:

You see a leaf on the ground. How did it get there? Do you think it fell from a tree, or do you think an invisible, mischievous gremlin pulled it off the tree and placed it on the ground? What makes you believe one explanation and not the other?

[Rockie Cantais]

I know and around and around we go.

The bottom line is this, none of know for sure what is out there now do we? We make these great assumptions and we can make some really great calculations but we still don't know. Why I say as long as some one has a reasonable theory have at it. That's right most are taught just one. BIG BANG! What if there was no big bang but a continuous cycle that the Universe goes through. Creationism? Why not we are just a tiny micro speck anyway in the universe. Intelligent design? again why not? O" that's right we humans are the finest evolved beings in the universe aren't we? Well, we are in our own Solar system and in our own minds.